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Tags feminism isues , sexism issues , sports issues

View Poll Results: Should 'Walk On Girls' and similar roles for sexy women in sport be done away with
Yes 31 31.96%
No 29 29.90%
Don't know 5 5.15%
Don't care 29 29.90%
Planet X 3 3.09%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 1st February 2018, 08:41 PM   #1
Puppycow
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No more 'Walk On Girls' or 'Grid Girls'?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I recommend this video, but I realize that not everyone can watch or prefers another format.

If you're unfamiliar with these terms, "walk on girls" were pretty young ladies usually clad in swimwear or a mini dress or something like that who would escort the players out in professional darts and present trophies to the winners (it's now a popular spectator sport in the UK for those who didn't know). "Grid girls" likewise played a similar role in Formula One racing.

Now, in fairly short succession both of these sports have decided to end the practice, and the women who played these roles are out of a job. Feminists and apparently broadcasters like the BBC had pushed for this because they felt the roles sexualized and objectified women. I suppose you could say the same thing about cheerleaders in American sports.

Darts: PDC to scrap walk-on girls after broadcaster talks

Quote:
Walk-on girls will no longer be used by the Professional Darts Corporation (PDC) after talks with broadcasters.

The long-established practice of women escorting male players to the stage will be abandoned, starting with this weekend's Masters in Milton Keynes.

World number one Michael van Gerwen has said the tradition should end.

But walk-on girl Charlotte Wood, who says darts accounts for 60 per cent of her income, says her rights "are being taken away".
'Walk-On Girls' Should Be Banned Across All Sports, Says Women's Sport Trust

Quote:
The Women’s Sport Trust has called for the end of female models across the world of sport, following the landmark decision to ban “walk-on girls” in darts. On Saturday, the Professional Darts Corporation (PDC) confirmed women will no longer escort male players to the stage after talks with broadcasters.

A leading voice campaigning for gender equality in sport, The Women’s Sport Trust, has now called on other sports to follow suit. In a statement given to HuffPost UK the body said it supports the PDC’s decision, but would now like to “encourage other sports such as motor racing, boxing and cycling to follow their example”.

Many on Twitter have also called on a banning of female models employed in this way across sport, although the darts ban isn’t without its critics. Some have accused the PDC of “political correctness gone mad” and putting women out of work.
And for an opposing viewpoint:
Bitter Feminists Go After The Hot Cheerleaders. Here Are Their First Victims.
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Old 1st February 2018, 09:33 PM   #2
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The normal parties will complain; but I don't see any material rebuttal of "the feminists" position that these women had no function other than as objectified arm-jewelry, and western culture is generally shifting away from that sort of thing lately.
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Old 1st February 2018, 10:42 PM   #3
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Don't know *and* don't care. Just don't pay them next to nothing like the NFL does to cheerleaders, and I'm good.

Although I must also express annoyance at a "ban" that's really just the organization itself listening to consumers and responding to them.
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Old 1st February 2018, 11:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Just don't pay them next to nothing like the NFL does to cheerleaders, and I'm good.
I've wondered in the past why cheerleaders are willing to work for nothing or next to nothing. But I guess the NFL can do that because they find no shortage of pretty young women willing to work for free.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The normal parties will complain; but I don't see any material rebuttal of "the feminists" position that these women had no function other than as objectified arm-jewelry, and western culture is generally shifting away from that sort of thing lately.
Well no actually. Its not the normal parties who have complained. The average sports fan and people in the sports themselves have said nothing

So who is complaining? Actually, its the girls themselves, the ones who are now out of a job thanks to pressure from the feminazi brigade (those are the jealous ones who could not get a job like that)...

Quote:
"Model Kelly Brook, a former Formula One grid girl, described the role as "one of the best jobs I've ever had".

She said: "You dress glamorously and obviously it’s about being presentable but I never felt I was taken advantage of."

Fellow grid girl Rebecca Cooper wrote on Twitter: "Ridiculous that women who say they are "fighting for women's rights" are saying what others should and shouldn't do, stopping us from doing a job we love and are proud to do. PC gone mad"

"If we don't do something to stop this where will it end? No grid girls, no cheerleaders, female singers being told what to wear on stage, no models in magazines? I'll fight for my right to choose what I wear, where I work and to keep a job I love."
And to those who say these girls aren't paid well, I'm afraid you are way off base. Models like Kelly Brook, Jodie Marsh, Emma Noble, Melinda Messenger, Liz Cindy, Bex Cooper and Nell McAndrew do not work for peanuts.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:22 AM   #6
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I never understood why this kind of role became common, let alone institutionalized. What do they offer except eye candy for the male audience?

This sport is overwhelmingly male dominated, so it's no wonder that there are no "gridboys". In a sense they just reinforce the macho image they already developed, for no real good reason.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well no actually. Its not the normal parties who have complained. The average sports fan and people in the sports themselves have said nothing
Incorrect, twice.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 01:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I never understood why this kind of role became common, let alone institutionalized. What do they offer except eye candy for the male audience?
In F1, they hold umbrellas over the drivers when it's raining. You know, before they spend 2 hours driving in that same rain in open cockpit cars
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Old 2nd February 2018, 01:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The average sports fan and people in the sports themselves have said nothing
Except for, among others, the PDC boss Barry Hearn, world no 1 Michael van Gerwen and tens of thousands of people who signed a petition.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/54584...-in-girls-pdc/
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Old 2nd February 2018, 01:35 AM   #10
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Yesterday was the first evening of this year's Premier League of Darts. No walk-on girls, but the cheerleaders on the podium were still there.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 02:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So who is complaining? Actually, its the girls themselves, the ones who are now out of a job thanks to pressure from the feminazi brigade (those are the jealous ones who could not get a job like that)...
Last time I heard about the evil "feminazis", it turned out to be actual self-styled nazis ranting about how the jews (of course...) wanted to destroy the white race by...something something confederate statues.

The time before that, it turned out to be a bunch of guys enraged by the new Star Wars trilogy.

The time before that, it was a bunch of dudes enraged by Hillary Clinton - and who voted for Toupee Fiasco instead.

The time before that, it was a bunch of dudes enraged by women ghostbusters.

And the time before *that* it turned out to be a bunch of dudes starting a harassment campaign to drive women out of the gaming industry.

So I think I'll wait to see if this is anything about feminists, as opposed to, say, women who are fans of F1, or women who are F1 drivers - and if the charge about "feminazis" is just the same bunch of dudes that want to put women in their place yet again.

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Old 2nd February 2018, 02:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The normal parties will complain; but I don't see any material rebuttal of "the feminists" position that these women had no function other than as objectified arm-jewelry, and western culture is generally shifting away from that sort of thing lately.
This.

It just sucks for those girls that they're out of a job from one day to another. But maybe they can find a job in advertising, lying over the bonnet of a car to entice the would-be buyers.

Having watched that video, I wonder about their claim that they're "part of the family". Can someone with more insight into one of these sports comment on that?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 02:59 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MetalPig View Post
In F1, they hold umbrellas over the drivers when it's raining. You know, before they spend 2 hours driving in that same rain in open cockpit cars
Well then I understand why people are outraged and offended by this decision. It ruins everything! Might just shut down all of to be honest with you.

I never watched F1 racing before and now I most certainly won't do it either.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:03 AM   #14
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But newsreaders and journalists on TV will still be cute right?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
But newsreaders and journalists on TV will still be cute right?
Such people are only chosen by ability not looks, unless they are female of course....
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Such people are only chosen by ability not looks, unless they are female of course....

Exactly. I hope the irony of very pretty newsreaders reporting on this is not lost.

I also wonder where all the ugly violinists, or, more often, 'violinists' are, cos all the ones I see pretending to play on TV are very cute.

As is pretty much everyone female on TV. Apparently it's okay to make money from being pretty as long as it's not too overt. Unless one is a cheerleader, of course. Or a dancer. Skilled and disciplined as they are, I'll bet you a million pounds a pretty dancer gets more work than a plain one.

Pretty women get stupid men to give them money for wearing few clothes. I wish I was an oppressed pretty woman making money from being pretty rather than being the ugly old bastard I am having to undergo stress and ******** for my money.



Apparently a bingo on the genetic lottery for brains is a green light for making money from one's genetic gifts.

A bingo on the genetic lottery for good looks and symmetry, however, and one has to go and work at tescos because it's evil to make money from one's looks. Well, unless you're a model. Or an actress. Or a faux violinist.

Oh, it's all so confusing.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:24 AM   #17
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The plain ones should have no problem finding a TV job... they can be spokespersons for feminists!
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
But newsreaders and journalists on TV will still be cute right?
Bill Turnbull or Steph McGovern?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Bill Turnbull or Steph McGovern?
Oh, apologies. It's perfectly acceptable to be plain or ugly if one is a man. It's only ladies who have the added requirement of 'must be pretty* on the job description.



*And not too old. Very few Ladies in the media are allowed to get old.




Oh, and as an aside, isn't it amazing how all the best female pop singers in the world, with the exception of the really, really good ones (Adele) are cute, little pretty things? Amazing how genetics does that...
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:50 AM   #20
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Without wishing to derail, I think Adele is incredibly cute and pretty.

Somewhat more on topic, my wife is an F1 fan and is very pleased that the grid girls are to disappear. She is no rabid feminist, but being a female engineer she is very aware of the tensions around gender in male-dominated professional arenas.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:51 AM   #21
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Here is a question I would like the supporters of this move to answer...

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the high IQ and intelligence nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a scientist or an engineer.

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the physical attributes nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a professional athlete or sportsperson.

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the artistic talents nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a sculptor, a painter, a photographer or a musician.

So, why is it NOT acceptable for a person to take advantage of the good looks nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as walk-on girl, grid-girl, cheerleader or model?
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:53 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Without wishing to derail, I think Adele is incredibly cute and pretty.
This is a very fair point, and I too think she's rather hot. She's not conventionally attractive in the mold of nearly every other pop singer though?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:56 AM   #23
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Ask yourself.
If F1 had just announced they were going to start employing girls in bikinis to hold umbrellas and then have champagne squirted over them by the race winners, what would be the reaction?

If women want to work in F1 shouldn't it be as mechanics, drivers and marshals the same as the men?

Moto GP and World Superbikes etc have the same thing. Girls stand by the riders on the grid holding parasols and little signs with the riders name on them.

A quick poll in the pub among biking friends and the consensus is that they add nothing to the race and no one cares if they are there or not.

Maybe bike racing fans are more interested in the actual racing than F1 fans?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Here is a question I would like the supporters of this move to answer...

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the high IQ and intelligence nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a scientist or an engineer.

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the physical attributes nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a professional athlete or sportsperson.

It is acceptable for a person to take advantage of the artistic talents nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as a sculptor, a painter, a photographer or a musician.

So, why is it NOT acceptable for a person to take advantage of the good looks nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as walk-on girl, grid-girl, cheerleader or model?
Not at all. Nobody is saying that any group of people can't be walk-on girls if they want to be, or that those naturally gifted with 'good looks' are not best suited to the role. Should you need a walk-on girl, then the good looking candidates would almost certainly be the first choice. The sports in question have decided that they don't want walk-on girls at all - classically good-looking or otherwise. Should they be forced to employ people that they no longer want or need?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:02 AM   #25
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Liberate women by taking choices away from them, that's what I say.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:03 AM   #26
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Reminds me slightly of social do-gooders of a hundred years ago who got freak shows shut down because the "freaks" were being exploited.

Turns out that a lot of those "freaks" were pissed off because they were making a good living, and didn't like the interference.

Obviously a flawed comparison, but similar in that the "exploited" class is being manhandled by the protesters just as much as the promoters.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:06 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ask yourself.
If F1 had just announced they were going to start employing girls in bikinis to hold umbrellas and then have champagne squirted over them by the race winners, what would be the reaction?

Ask how much the ladies were being paid, how much they'd increased revenue by and wonder if they'd considered unionising?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The plain ones should have no problem finding a TV job... they can be spokespersons for feminists!
Like Freida Pinto? Amber Heard? Emma Watson?


Sad.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Like Freida Pinto? Amber Heard? Emma Watson?


Sad.

Oh, now isn't that a pretty trio...
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So, why is it NOT acceptable for a person to take advantage of the good looks nature gifted them to make a living in the job of their choice, such as walk-on girl, grid-girl, cheerleader or model?
There's a time and place for everything. The real question is why it's only women that work was "walk in girls"? Why aren't there "walk in boys" too?

Having women, and only women, be relegated to the role of sexualized props that aren't even tenously linked to the sport or activity at hand is completely unwanted sexist objectification as far as I'm concerned. I should note that I don't throw out the word objectification lightly.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
*And not too old. Very few Ladies in the media are allowed to get old..
In no particular order, and just the ones 60 or over...

Paula Zahn (61 - unbelievably!)
Oprah Winfrey (64)
Arianna Huffington (67)
Christiane Amanpour (60)
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
There's a time and place for everything. The real question is why it's only women that work was "walk in girls"? Why aren't there "walk in boys" too?

Having women, and only women, be relegated to the role of sexualized props that aren't even tenously linked to the sport or activity at hand is completely unwanted sexist objectification as far as I'm concerned. I should note that I don't throw out the word objectification lightly.

Grid Boys:

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...rid-boys-point

He's very handsome.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
There's a time and place for everything. The real question is why it's only women that work was "walk in girls"? Why aren't there "walk in boys" too?
Nice evasion. Answer my question , don't answer it with a question.

And FYI, F1 did use "Grid Boys" at the 2015 Monaco GP. The move was criticised

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...aco-grand-prix


Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Having women, and only women, be relegated to the role of sexualized props that aren't even tenously linked to the sport or activity at hand is completely unwanted sexist objectification as far as I'm concerned. I should note that I don't throw out the word objectification lightly.
And yet they CHOOSE to do the work.. there are waiting lists of women who want to do this work. Is it not a their right to work at the occupation of their choice?
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd February 2018 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:23 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Oh, apologies. It's perfectly acceptable to be plain or ugly if one is a man. It's only ladies who have the added requirement of 'must be pretty* on the job description.
Steph's a lady.
Well, I say "lady"...she's from Middlesborough after all.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Ask how much the ladies were being paid, how much they'd increased revenue by and wonder if they'd considered unionising?
Do you assume that the billionaires and mere millionaires who run F1 haven't done the math.

It's a trade off. Car shows in Asia have started banning the hotties in bikinis because they realized their market is larger than guys scratching their crotches and going "Oooh, baby, gotta get me some of that!" They want to sell to women-types and women-types don't want their men-types hanging out at the Mazda display if there are hot chicks selling the cars.

You'll always have manly man sports to fall back on. MMA, Lithuanian kickboxing, boxing... they all have hot babes for you. And then there's always titty bars, burlesque, half the movies out of Hollywood, porn (soft and hard). Youtube compilations of "hottest Fox babes best upskirt shots", etc.... No one's depriving anyone, except those depriving the models of their gigs, and that would seem to be a commercial decision. If the market is there, someone will provide the eye candy. Apparently the market's not there any longer, at least for these two latest to fall. XFL, yes Vince McMahon, has said they won't have cheerleaders this time around.

Maybe the world's changing?
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Not at all. Nobody is saying that any group of people can't be walk-on girls if they want to be, or that those naturally gifted with 'good looks' are not best suited to the role. Should you need a walk-on girl, then the good looking candidates would almost certainly be the first choice. The sports in question have decided that they don't want walk-on girls at all - classically good-looking or otherwise. Should they be forced to employ people that they no longer want or need have been pressured by the feminist lobby into dropping?
FTFY
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Oh, now isn't that a pretty trio...
You want me to keep naming hot feminists? Or would you like to name some really fugly ones? Please go ahead, it's not like we have any clues as to how shallow these opinions are, so you might as well hammer it home.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And FYI, F1 did use "Grid Boys" at the 2015 Monaco GP. The move was criticised

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...aco-grand-prix
By Vettel.
Hardly newsworthy..."One of the drivers was somewhat taken aback".
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:26 AM   #39
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If I could get paid for prancing around in budgie smugglers at sporting events I'd give it a go.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:27 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And yet they CHOOSE to do the work.. there are waiting lists of women who want to do this work. Is it not a their right to work at the occupation of their choice?
It is - provided that occupation exists. We no longer employ people to walk in front of cars with a red flag, because the role is no longer needed or wanted. If I want to fulfil that role, should people be forced to employ me?
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