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Old 11th September 2016, 02:19 PM   #41
DGM
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I think this entire forum is facing what I would call serious "Truther Obsession disorder syndrome". I have never seen any forum so obsessively focused on other people instead of on real facts gathered by real research.

These so called 9/11 Truthers, "the twoffs" as they are all referred to on this forum, are all either crazy, have some other major mental disorder, or will believe anything with no facts to back up their beliefs.

They have absolutely no facts to back up their narrative that something other than the planes and resultant fires caused the building to come down on 9/11. Some even think that reptilian like space aliens brought these buildings down, now that's a real winner. But to argue with these people who are either crazy or will believe anything with no facts is even crazier!

To do this after 15 years have gone by is really crazy and shows serious signs of what I would call "Very Sever Truther Obsession disorder syndrome". Maybe people on this forum can take a pill to recover from this very serious and self-destructive syndrome, who knows?
You do have a valid point.

What needs to be done is, throw out the post dealing with the absurd and identify the legitimate topics that can be addressed.

Care to start a list? I'll put out controlled demolition as a distraction instead of a topic for better understanding.
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Old 11th September 2016, 06:12 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
...
To do this after 15 years have gone by is really crazy and shows serious signs of what I would call "Very Severe Truther Obsession disorder syndrome". Maybe people on this forum can take a pill to recover from this very serious and self-destructive syndrome, who knows?
Like posting a wall of words, repeating a copy and paste attack, and claiming the FBI made it happen? Claiming the FBI and CIA can read minds, is that what you are talking about?

Or you claiming you knew of the attacks before 9/11, but non one would listen to your delusion?

Gee, I have to go mow the lawn now, have to take time out from spending 10 seconds reading BS, I have a mowing the lawn severe obsession disorder syndrome...


Most 9/11 truthers, unlike 9/11 foretelling the future experts who post wall of words about how the FBI and CIA did it... , most truthers actually start thinking for themselves and wake up to reality. What will you do when you figure out you did not foretell 9/11, you made it up, you lied about knowing 9/11 was going to happen. Now what, is that an obsession too? oops, mowing time.

You fail to blame UBL for the attacks; why do you apologize for terrorists with BS.
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Last edited by beachnut; 11th September 2016 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 11th September 2016, 06:47 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
..."the twoffs" as they are all referred to on this forum,
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I think this entire forum is facing what I would call serious "Truther Obsession disorder syndrome". I have never seen any forum so obsessively focused on other people instead of on real facts gathered by real research.

Agreed and it is a long standing issue.

So "what it is facing" (current tense) is the consequences of a long held obsession.

And the "go downhill" is currently being pushed along by debunker side advocacy of a move to reduce the forum to a focus on ridiculing "truthers" and limiting technical discussion to what was debunked in the classic era of Gravy and Mackey". So not only "don't learn any more" BUT UNDO learning AKA "lobotomise learning and go back to pre 2010".

Part of the problem IMO started a few years back when - as the number of "genuine truthers" declined - "debunkers" desperate for opponents started the process of confusing and conflating "trolls" with "truthers" and pouring denigration on the trolls whilst calling them truthers.

A related sub issue is the near universal practice of responding to what the trolls say as if the troll was serious. Totally missing the point and misreading the social dynamics of the game.

When the troll is in fact saying "Here is something irritating - now JUMP" - proving that "something" is true or false misses the point - the "debunker" does as as commanded and JUMPS.
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:18 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
You do have a valid point.
I agree he does. BUT IMO it is personal and procedural NOT a matter about "technical issues"

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
What needs to be done is, throw out the post dealing with the absurd and identify the legitimate topics that can be addressed.
Why not pour scorn on those who respond to technical claims by personal attacks or other forms of debating trickery?

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Care to start a list? I'll put out controlled demolition as a distraction instead of a topic for better understanding.
Try this as a "List Starter"

1) Uncommented graphic ridicule which implies that there is something funny about a quote mined bit of post BUT doesn't say what it is or offer a reasoned argument for or against the quote. It does NOT address the topic raised;

2) Four paragraphs of verbal rant NONE of which address the topic raised?

Last edited by ozeco41; 11th September 2016 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 12th September 2016, 04:41 AM   #46
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too much focus on "debate" and "debunking" others and their ideas and not enough on actual research and establish what the mechanisms may have been that drove the destruction. Way too much "gotcha" stuff.
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Old 12th September 2016, 04:45 PM   #47
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Recently I've been using web traffic analytics tools to survey a bunch of fringe websites, and used 9/11 Truth sites as a control. The results cover the past month, so many can expect a slight uptick for the anniversary, but the spread of results indicates a movement that isn't moving at all.

I used Similarweb for this; like other analytics sites it relies heavily on estimates, so the monthly visits are to be taken with a pinch of salt - these might lead to 1-2 page views on average, which is where bounce rate comes in, a high bounce rate means only 1 page was viewed with no further browsing. The key thing is the ordering and ranking, which places a great many Truther website swirling towards the plughole, while a few sites tick over with moderate traffic.

A few control examples of mainstream and other fringe sites are included in the list to illustrate the marginality of 9/11 Truth today.

Global rank US rank Bounce Monthly Visits
nytimes.com #156 #47 65.98% 328M
infowars.com #2,595 #743 62.12% 23.80M

wtc7.net #328,782 #137,709 61.68% 114.70K
911research.wtc7.net unranked unranked 61.36% 106.50K
tfes.org [flat earth] #386,543 (#74,626, UK) 51.59% 86.70K
ae911truth.org #398,009 #138,443 50.29% 83.30K
911blogger.com #610,715 #203,812 62.46% 57.20K
911truth.org #636,834 #248,523 54.57% 52.10K
pilotsfor911truth.org #933,357 #463,019 55.31% 33.40K
911review.com #1,038,634 #340,599 46.38% 33.20K
timecube.com [control] #1,383,415 #701,398 57.68% 19K
journalof911studies.com #1,502,547 - 20.44% 12.10K
loosechange911.com #1,786,827 #698,634 47.78% 17K
consensus911.org #2,086,259 #747,544 72.07% 7.60K
septemberclues.info #2,457,161 #1,326,424 69.57% 8.60K
patriotsquestion911.com #2,839,790 #1,389,742 60.60% 6.10K
911planeshoax.com #3,084,567 #1,613,024 72.28% 6.50K
911proof.com #3,180,939 #860,093 n/a n/a
911speakout.org #3,222,160 #909,091 71.14% 4.60K
citizeninvestigationteam.com #3,334,273 #1,191,996 n/a n/a

pentagonstrike.co.uk #4,270,888 - n/a n/a
911missinglinks.com #5,129,446 #1,652,644 68.47% 2.50K
physics911.net #5,755,426 #1,916,005 n/a n/a
911truthnews.com #5,987,278 #1,938,888 n/a n/a
wtcdemolition.com #6,113,336 #1,691,680 n/a n/a
911forum.org.uk #6,183,416 - n/a n/a
truthjihad.blogspot.com #6,184,081 #1,811,496 n/a n/a
911sharethetruth.com #6,712,430 #740,142UK n/a n/a
911research.com #6,841,341 - n/a n/a
stj911.org #6,858,861 #1,689,399 n/a n/a
scientistsfor911truth.org #6,957,012 #2,211,960 n/a n/a
visibility911.com #7,971,168 #2,598,473 n/a n/a
ff911truthandunity.org #8,030,032 #2,233,056 n/a n/a
mo911truth.org [military officers] #8,641,843 #2,270,285 n/a n/a
sf911truth.org #10,711,706 #3,605,768 n/a n/a
davidraygriffin.com #11,210,974 #3,027,635 n/a n/a
911scholars.org #11,682,099 #918,757 NL n/a n/a
911inplanesite.com #11,986,388 - n/a n/a
pl911truth.com #14,857,640 #3,504,676 n/a n/a
mp911truth.org [medical prof.] #17,637,180 #4,261,247 n/a n/a
aa911.org #19,562,231 #4,845,703 n/a n/a
wearechangeseattle.org #27,886,662 - n/a n/a
st911.org #30,322,306 #2,614,205Fr n/a n/a
mediafor911truth.org n/a n/a n/a n/a
rl911truth.org [religious leaders] n/a n/a n/a n/a
l911t.com [lawyers] Defunct
wearechangenewjersey.org Defunct

The same spread of rankings, the same pattern, was visible also with 'pure' Holocaust denial sites; the highest ranking pure-denial site did only slightly better than the highest-ranked pure-911 Truth site, the worst denial site with any kind of measurement undercut st911.org with a rank of 32 millionth in the world.

Poor traffic stems from the fact that most of these sites are not being updated; there's little reason even for diehard Truthers to look them up more than once in a while. And a few are starting to go offline. How many of the sites listed above will be online in 5, 10, 15, 20 years time?
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