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Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 13th October 2019, 11:50 AM   #1321
p0lka
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The problem with the USA is it is awash with guns. Cops get killed for issuing a traffic ticket. The situation is inherently unstable and these killings will keep occuring and cops will keep getting shot for trivial reasons.
Re the highlighted:
And innocent people get killed by cops for routine traffic stops.

The situation is inherently unstable, I agree, but it's causing instability on both sides,
yeah, cops will keep getting shot for trivial reasons, but they will also keep shooting people for trivial reasons too. It's a feedback loop.
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Old 13th October 2019, 02:57 PM   #1322
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I was going to say that police in the U.S. are trained like they're going to war, but that's not true. U.S. soldiers are not trained to act like this. If this had been a soldier outside her home, she would be alive right now. A soldier would have evaluated the situation correctly and, at worst, she would have been taken into custody without gunfire and then soon released.

Many U.S. police departments hire gun-happy yahoos, and they train them to be even more gun-happy. I'm absolutely certain this wasn't true when I was young. I never felt any fear when I saw police then. I do now. I'm not always sure they're not the enemy.

I sort of felt the same way until I saw them on High St. downtown on Friday nights, standing aside, watching the local rednecks beating kids up for having long hair, and then arresting those kids afterward for 'disturbing the peace'.

What clinched it was when I got beat up by the cops for having hair over my collar and being within two blocks of a campus demonstration protesting the Kent State shootings. When they realized they had just kicked the **** out of an innocent fifteen year old they left me there, lying on the sidewalk.

Since then my opinion of cops has only gone down hill. They'll have to do better if they want it improved.
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Old 14th October 2019, 06:13 AM   #1323
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Quote:
Many U.S. police departments hire gun-happy yahoos, and they train them to be even more gun-happy. I'm absolutely certain this wasn't true when I was young. I never felt any fear when I saw police then. I do now. I'm not always sure they're not the enemy.
It was true when I was a child. I learned to be terrified of what someone with a badge might do when I was about nine or ten.

I remember hearing my parents talking about a cop that shot an infant playing with his Mom's keys because the officer thought his life was in danger somehow. I guess he thought the keys were loaded or something.

I remember hearing a woman sleeping in her car somewhere. A rest area, maybe. She had a handgun in her lap, so she could defend herself if someone tried to give her trouble. The cops approached the car, saw her sleeping, saw the gun, then used a flashlight to break her window. She sat up, put her hand on the gun, and they killed her.

Then a man ran through an apartment complex where I was living, fleeing the cops after a "beer run" (run in, grab a box of beer, run out). The cops shot him in the back while he was running away. It's hard to be a threat to the public when you have both hands full of beer, but LEO decided he was -and that theft carried a death sentence.

There were lots of other instances, but those are the three that have always bothered me the most. Two people who did nothing wrong whatsoever, and one guy just wanting to party died because grown men who were trained, armored, armed, uniformed and shielded were afraid of them.

Yeah; I've never been a fan. There's been something wrong with the culture US cops live in for as long as I can remember. I've been saying so since I was a teenager, and have always been criticized for it. But, now, with the internet and camera phones, the rest of the world is starting to see what I have been seeing for years.
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Old 14th October 2019, 06:19 AM   #1324
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I kind of blame the 80s for this. That's when the mythology of the lawless urban dystopia, the world is going to hell in a handbasket, our streets are war zones, every 80s cop movie, mentality really started to solidify despite none of the facts, statistics, or trends really supporting that.

So we now have a generation of cops who no longer see the general populace as the entity they are supposed to be protecting but as an enemy force they are occupying.
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Old 14th October 2019, 06:35 AM   #1325
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Quote:
So we now have a generation of cops who no longer see the general populace as the entity they are supposed to be protecting but as an enemy force they are occupying.
As I was saying above, the generation before thought the same way. I think it's a problem anytime a group is given a little bit of power over other people. From hall monitors to LEO, some people have a deep need to push other's around, and they gravitate to the kinds of positions that allow them to do it. They don't care about upholding law or order. They don't care about protecting anyone or maintaining a peaceful community or preventing their neighbor's children from dying of overdose; rather they just want to be able to bully other people -or even just legally murder them.

The kids who would be school shooters but never quite make it over the humps just go join the police force.

It won't stop until we stop hiring them. With a number of tests and evaluation techniques available to discover just who is -and who is not- likely to suddenly decide a passenger in a stolen truck deserves to be shot to death on sight, there's no excuse for the number of them who graduate the academy and find jobs.
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Old 14th October 2019, 09:00 AM   #1326
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A lot of the justification we hear about the 2nd Amendment is that the populace needs to be armed to protect themselves against state tyranny.

At what point do black people say, "Yeah, that's right."

See also: Texas's "Castle Doctrine"
A black person sees a police officer approach their house....
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Old 14th October 2019, 01:34 PM   #1327
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
A lot of the justification we hear about the 2nd Amendment is that the populace needs to be armed to protect themselves against state tyranny.

At what point do black people say, "Yeah, that's right."

See also: Texas's "Castle Doctrine"
A black person sees a police officer approach their house....
Tamir Rice, Philando Castille, John Crawford III, Darien Hunt, and Fred Hampton, among many, *many* others, would likely give you a reply, hadf they not all been killed by police for being armed with guns, airsoft guns, swords, etc.
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Old 14th October 2019, 03:00 PM   #1328
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Tamir Rice, Philando Castille, John Crawford III, Darien Hunt, and Fred Hampton, among many, *many* others, would likely give you a reply, hadf they not all been killed by police for being armed with guns, airsoft guns, swords, etc.
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy the "We need the 2nd Amendment to stand up to the oppressive tyranny of the government" claims.

Yeah, right. Just TRY to stand up to the tyranny of the government, I dare you. I'm sure if a black person shot at a cop approaching the door, all the 2nd amendment lovers would be all supporting them, right?
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Old 14th October 2019, 03:51 PM   #1329
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy the "We need the 2nd Amendment to stand up to the oppressive tyranny of the government" claims.

Yeah, right. Just TRY to stand up to the tyranny of the government, I dare you. I'm sure if a black person shot at a cop approaching the door, all the 2nd amendment lovers would be all supporting them, right?

The Black Panthers tried it, and looked what happened to them.
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Old 14th October 2019, 06:46 PM   #1330
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The Black Panthers tried it, and looked what happened to them.
Yeah, that was the last time Republicans supported firearm regulations...
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Old 14th October 2019, 11:22 PM   #1331
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Aaron Dean arrested and charged with murder

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...investigation/

It would seem that I was wrong earlier when I said it would only be a slap on the wrist.

I think the Fort Worth PD is acting appropriately in this case. They even conceded that the stills of the gun in the video first released was inappropriate and shouldn't have been there.
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Old 14th October 2019, 11:33 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...investigation/

It would seem that I was wrong earlier when I said it would only be a slap on the wrist.

I think the Fort Worth PD is acting appropriately in this case. They even conceded that the stills of the gun in the video first released was inappropriate and shouldn't have been there.

You're not wrong yet.

Wait to see if it goes to trial, and then if there is a conviction and sentence.
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Old 15th October 2019, 12:40 AM   #1333
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy the "We need the 2nd Amendment to stand up to the oppressive tyranny of the government" claims.

Yeah, right. Just TRY to stand up to the tyranny of the government, I dare you. I'm sure if a black person shot at a cop approaching the door, all the 2nd amendment lovers would be all supporting them, right?
Not only would they completely reject any such claim, they'd blame people who had nothin g to do with it. Much like MLK Jr. was routinely blamed for various riots, Deray McKesson is being sued for giving a speech that supposedly inspired someone to throw a rock at a cop hours later, in a completely different area, and Black Lives Matter was blamed for random shootings, the Baltimore riots, and a kidnapping in Chicago that they had no part in.
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Old 16th October 2019, 02:36 AM   #1334
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Re the highlighted:
And innocent people get killed by cops for routine traffic stops.
Only of course the police in that situation did nothing wrong, while it never seems reasonable for an innocent person to fear for their life from the cop even if they are at higher risks than the cop is from them.
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Old 16th October 2019, 07:41 AM   #1335
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I don't really have a point here, I just love this headline.

Florida police say officer should not have pushed man off roof

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/t...KEUYRmseXLdqH8
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Old 16th October 2019, 07:45 AM   #1336
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That someone is posting on a thread, asking for advice on how not to get shot by the police during a routine traffic stop, is evidence that the behaviour of the police in the USA is not what should be expected of a police officer.

I hate referring to those people in uniform as cops or police because that is not how they work.

To me a police officer is someone who has signed up to take risks to themselves so as to preserve the lives of others. Their duty is to detect and arrest suspect criminals so that they should be taken to court and justice served. They are there to calm situations down and preserve the peace. They are there to make good people feel safe and bad people worry they will be caught and convicted. In the UK those duties are enshrined in the law and form the basis of how they are trained.

It has been made abundantly clear by many that in the USA, the police have no duty to protect the public (I believe that may even be backed by law). They are not expected to take risks. It is fine for them to shoot to kill and not arrest. The will inflame situations, make them much worse and think there is no place for patient talking down of violent incidents. They make good people feel scared. They make bad people react with extreme violence back at them because they do not realise the tough guy act causes others to act tough back. The makes many US police no different from vigilante thugs dishing out summary justice.

Why do so many on this forum keep on defending the behaviour of their police and how they are policed?
The behavior of most Police Officers is exemplary. My father was a cop for thirty-five years and he started out as a traffic officer. He worked his way to a desk job and ended up a detective. Over the course of my father's career, several officers were fired or resigned. Police work isn't for everybody.


They are only human and humans make mistakes.
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Old 16th October 2019, 07:51 AM   #1337
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The behavior of most Police Officers is exemplary.
How about those who cover up for officers who screw up? Is that exemplary behavior?
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Old 16th October 2019, 07:52 AM   #1338
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The behavior of most Police Officers is exemplary. My father was a cop for thirty-five years and he started out as a traffic officer. He worked his way to a desk job and ended up a detective. Over the course of my father's career, several officers were fired or resigned. Police work isn't for everybody.
And you have no idea how many false confessions your father beat out of people, how many cop crimes he helped cover up, or how much money he took from drug dealers.

In short, that your father carried a badge is meaningless to this conversation.
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Old 16th October 2019, 08:16 AM   #1339
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
They are only human and humans make mistakes.


Yeah, but comparing the number of known incidents of criminal behaviour on the part of policemen to the number of policemen reporting their fellow officers for criminal behaviour leads me to believe, and I'm sorry about this, that by far the majority of them are bent.


A policeman who does not report another policeman for violating the law is as bent as a nine bob note and gives the lie to 'most of them are okay'. Looking at the above, most of them are not.
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Old 16th October 2019, 08:52 AM   #1340
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The behavior of most Police Officers is exemplary.

Covering up for and protecting bad officers, adamantly resisting accountability and oversight, and treating all civilians -- particularly minority citizens -- as criminals by default is not exemplary behaviour.

Exemplary behaviour is uncommon in police officers, and can get officers fired.


Quote:
They are only human and humans make mistakes.

And their mistakes are far, far more likely to get innocent people killed.
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Old 16th October 2019, 10:27 AM   #1341
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And you have no idea how many false confessions your father beat out of people, how many cop crimes he helped cover up, or how much money he took from drug dealers.

In short, that your father carried a badge is meaningless to this conversation.
He never beat a confession out of anyone. You cop haters need to know the truth. For your information, my father and his fellow officers were considered great interrogators and they soon learned how to dig the truth out of a criminal. He didn't hit them or threaten them with anything but the harsh reality of prison if they were lying.
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Old 16th October 2019, 11:38 AM   #1342
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
He never beat a confession out of anyone. You cop haters need to know the truth. For your information, my father and his fellow officers were considered great interrogators and they soon learned how to dig the truth out of a criminal. He didn't hit them or threaten them with anything but the harsh reality of prison if they were lying.
You weren't there and are just making this up. You know nothing about the behaviour of your father when he was at work, nothing at all.
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Old 16th October 2019, 12:08 PM   #1343
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
You weren't there and are just making this up. You know nothing about the behaviour of your father when he was at work, nothing at all.
This quaint anecdote of small town cops doing good is just as valid as the many documented cases of systematic police abuse. It's not like a major American city ran a secret black site where it would disappear prisoners in order to beat confessions out of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ans-black-site
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Old 17th October 2019, 12:43 AM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
He never beat a confession out of anyone. You cop haters need to know the truth. For your information, my father and his fellow officers were considered great interrogators and they soon learned how to dig the truth out of a criminal. He didn't hit them or threaten them with anything but the harsh reality of prison if they were lying.
You never answered my question here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post12845248
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Old 25th October 2019, 06:39 AM   #1345
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https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...236551058.html

Quote:
A newly surfaced video appears to show the moment a Fresno police officer shot and killed a 16-year-old boy back in 2017.

Read more here: https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...#storylink=cpy
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Old 25th October 2019, 03:08 PM   #1346
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Shooting fleeing suspects in the back without any justification whatsoever is apparently not a crime in America.
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Old 25th October 2019, 03:13 PM   #1347
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Shooting fleeing suspects in the back without any justification whatsoever is apparently not a crime in America.
Well, as long as they aren't white.

On the plus side, we treat 11 year old girls in a gentler manner.
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Old 25th October 2019, 03:52 PM   #1348
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Shooting fleeing suspects in the back without any justification whatsoever is apparently not a crime in America.
In the back of the head, no less. It seems like the guy's partner was going over the fence and the murderer decided he didn't want to make the effort.
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Old 25th October 2019, 04:10 PM   #1349
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
"Stop resisting!"
Do they actually train cops to shout that while beating people, or do the police unions do it unofficially?
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Old 25th October 2019, 05:28 PM   #1350
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Shooting fleeing suspects in the back without any justification whatsoever is apparently not a crime in America.

He was running away.

How much more justification do you need?

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Old 26th October 2019, 03:31 AM   #1351
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Ugh. That is... thoroughly nauseating.
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Old 26th October 2019, 04:48 AM   #1352
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Ugh. That is... thoroughly nauseating.
When I watched this I thought I was experiencing an unaccustomed sensation of anger. Having read this comment I realise it was nausea.

Every single person present at this summary beat down should be charged with something, I don't know what but surely they are culpable.
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Old 26th October 2019, 05:22 AM   #1353
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Disturbing Video Shows San Bernardino Police Officer Fatally Shooting Unarmed Man

Body camera video released Friday by the San Bernardino Police Department shows one of its officers fatally shooting an unarmed man holding his hands in the air.
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Old 26th October 2019, 06:16 AM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
In the back of the head, no less. It seems like the guy's partner was going over the fence and the murderer decided he didn't want to make the effort.
And it was apparently justified because he was wanted for murder. Again the police gets to act as judge, jury, and executioner.

Quote:
Former Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said back in March 2018 that an internal police investigation determined that “Sgt. Villalvazo’s actions were within department policy,” and that the shooting was justified because the teen was wanted for the murder of 19-year-old Eugenio Ybarra, who died a day prior to the Murrietta-Golding shooting.

Dyer also said then that Murrietta-Golding “reached into his waistband several times,” including when he looked back at Sgt. Villalvazo the moment just before he was shot.

“Fearing he was about to be shot, Sgt. Villalvazo fired one round, striking Murrietta-Golding,” Dyer said.
Also don't police officers have to take the background into consideration before using a weapon? This was a daycare center...
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Old 26th October 2019, 06:22 AM   #1355
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Also don't police officers have to take the background into consideration before using a weapon? This was a daycare center...



The apparent rule one of US law enforcement is no harm shall come to an officer.

This fella got sacked for not following that rue, the pussy (and former US Marine)

Fired for having bollocks. Probably because it shows up his colleagues.
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Old 26th October 2019, 06:26 AM   #1356
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
When I watched this I thought I was experiencing an unaccustomed sensation of anger. Having read this comment I realise it was nausea.

Every single person present at this summary beat down should be charged with something, I don't know what but surely they are culpable.
It's probably because I'm not an american but why in the holy ******* hell is a police officer interacting with an 11 year old school girl in the first place?? I get that he is a "school resource officer" but really???! What the ****, USA?

It never ceases to astound me that anyone thinks having actual police officers assigned to schools is a good idea. Especially psychopatic maniacs like this one.
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Old 26th October 2019, 07:48 AM   #1357
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Disturbing Video Shows San Bernardino Police Officer Fatally Shooting Unarmed Man

Body camera video released Friday by the San Bernardino Police Department shows one of its officers fatally shooting an unarmed man holding his hands in the air.
I probably should have pointed out that this is a different case of a policeman shooting an unarmed man than all the other cases of a policeman shooting an unarmed man that we've been discussing so far. In case that wasn't clear.
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Old 27th October 2019, 04:05 PM   #1358
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Well driving through protesters is legal for cops.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ice-of...-with-a-crime/
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Old 28th October 2019, 01:16 AM   #1359
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well driving through protesters is legal for cops.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ice-of...-with-a-crime/
Videos of the incident:

https://twitter.com/neveragainactn/s...448448?lang=en
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:30 PM   #1360
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
What do you think of a police officer violently detaining a 11 year old for spilling some milk? Or is it impossible for you to get past a marketing sentence on a news site?
I'll answer this one first because it seems to have some relevancy to the thread

The officer's reaction was way out of line given the circumstances. The girl was upset an probably needed a space where she could coll down. I'm not a parent, so I really wouldn't know how to handle a very upset child who's also damaging property ("During the 77-minute long body-camera footage, he also shouted at the child as she picked at a sign in a window.")

It's good to see the officer is no longer on the force.
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