ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th July 2018, 11:19 AM   #481
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,578
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It is notable that humans are willing to risk their lives, undergo lengthy personal hardships, spend huge resources, and accept substantial collateral damage to help save the lives of other specifically identified individuals. In this case 12 boys and their coach. Yet at the same time most humans cannot summon up a fraction of the emotional involvement when the individuals at comparable risk are anonymous.

In this case the world mobilized to save 13 people- as it should be. Yet how many more people in Thailand die every year of preventable or treatable diseases without generating even the shadow of this level of intense effort from either the Thai government or the world's people as a whole? Propose a malarial eradication program that would save hundreds of people based on statistics and questions are immediately asked as to how much it is going to cost, how much effort it will take, and what damage might it do to agriculture or the economy. To save 13 in a cave? Do whatever is necessary and worry about the cost later!

BTW: I am aware that Thailand is a fairly advanced country with good public health resources and that there are international programs in place to try to control malaria. My point is how the urgent, spare-no-expense need to help others depends on the ability to identify emotionally with specific individuals in need, and that we do not typically experience the same feeling if the people in need are instead members of an anonymous group.
This thought had occurred to me as well. I think another element is the certainty of success or failure based on individual effort. If I donate to a charity that provides clean water, I know that, statistically, my donation might be involved in saving 1.5 lives. If I authorize a fleet of trucks to head to a cave entrance with pumping equipment, I can be fairly certain that my specific effort might mean life or death for some specific individuals.

Some charities have played on this. They try to associate a specific donation to a specific child who get fed/clothed/whatever, because that has a greater "pull" for the donor.

The immediacy is also a factor. There's no "I'll do it next month" possible.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 11:24 AM   #482
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,310
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
....
BTW: I am aware that Thailand is a fairly advanced country with good public health resources and that there are international programs in place to try to control malaria. My point is how the urgent, spare-no-expense need to help others depends on the ability to identify emotionally with specific individuals in need, and that we do not typically experience the same feeling if the people in need are instead members of an anonymous group.
One aspect is that it's a clearly identifiable, limited problem with a hard deadline and only one solution: "Kids in cave! Water rising! Get'em out!" But when we talk about public policy issues, there are always compromises and trade-offs. "How many West Virginia coal miners could be trained for new jobs if we bought one less M1 tank?" "If we spend more money on malaria in Thailand, is that less money for TB in Zimbabwe?" "Instead of malaria in Thailand, how 'bout more clinics to deliver prenatal care?" Etc., etc. It's easy to point to any one issue and say "Let's do something." But it's equally easy to say "But what about ....?"
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 11:31 AM   #483
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,838
All good points!
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 11:57 AM   #484
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,845
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
This thought had occurred to me as well. I think another element is the certainty of success or failure based on individual effort. If I donate to a charity that provides clean water, I know that, statistically, my donation might be involved in saving 1.5 lives. If I authorize a fleet of trucks to head to a cave entrance with pumping equipment, I can be fairly certain that my specific effort might mean life or death for some specific individuals.

Some charities have played on this. They try to associate a specific donation to a specific child who get fed/clothed/whatever, because that has a greater "pull" for the donor.

The immediacy is also a factor. There's no "I'll do it next month" possible.
Also having a specific skill, such as cave diving, that can be applied immediately and directly to the problem at hand. The Australian MD who went into the cave may have done no more than thousands of other doctors could have done, in different conditions, but he had the ability to apply his skills where they were needed

eta - what Bob001 posted.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

Last edited by Steve; 13th July 2018 at 11:58 AM.
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 12:45 PM   #485
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,950
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm sure it would turn into a go-to destination for extreeeeme vacationers.
And they would find a way to get around the gate/barrier in about five minutes....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 12:50 PM   #486
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,950
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Yeah- Fundamentalist Christians are certain to not be happy until they can turn this Buddhist story into a Jesus-invoked miracle!

Oh, wait- was there a comma there?
-signed, a grammer Nazi
Don't worry, Pureflix, the wonderful people who gave us "God Is Not Dead" are planning a film on this....
We have two announced projects..neither of which sounds promising ( fundy Christian studio and A Chinese studio which sounds like specialist in quicky exploitation films) and more no doubt on the way...
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 12:51 PM   #487
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,950
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Where's Prince Namor or Aquaman?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 12:54 PM   #488
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And they would find a way to get around the gate/barrier in about five minutes....
By using explosives because that's what would be necessary to get around steel bars embedded in solid rock.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 12:59 PM   #489
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Apparently, the Thai tourist board plans to turn it it into a museum.
Do you know if they will build a museum next to the cave, or within the interior of the cave itself?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:08 PM   #490
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
BBC News has a new video clip titled "Thai cave children found 'by smell'".

I can't view it but maybe somebody can and give a review here.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:13 PM   #491
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,677
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
By using explosives because that's what would be necessary to get around steel bars embedded in solid rock.
Nah, not usually. Some drills and saws will usually do the trick.

I grew up in an area with a lot of closed mines, and simply barring the entrances rarely kept people out. They'd either seal them completely with concrete, or use explosives.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:19 PM   #492
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,914
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I wonder if they will install a locking gate/grid/wall at the entrance to prevent any entry for the rainy months.

That same scenario could happen again and this cave will be very popular now with many more visitors.
What happens if someone goes in and THEN they close the gate and that person drowns at the entrance unable to get out?
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:40 PM   #493
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
What happens if someone goes in and THEN they close the gate and that person drowns at the entrance unable to get out?
My understanding is that the gaping entrance cavern doesn't experience lethal floods.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:43 PM   #494
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
It's hard to imagine the Thai government not putting some sort of security measure in place now. My guess is a gate or other form of lockable barrier.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:44 PM   #495
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,310
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
What happens if someone goes in and THEN they close the gate and that person drowns at the entrance unable to get out?
A/ You make sure nobody is in there before you lock the gate.

B/ You design a gate that could be opened only from the inside, like a fire exit, maybe setting off an alarm that would be monitored by local cops or park rangers.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 03:54 PM   #496
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 43,873
Shades of the fate of Injun Joe in "Tom Sawyer".
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2018, 07:42 AM   #497
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 44,687
Uh oh, some bad news:
Thai Soccer Player Still Waiting For Parents To Pick Him Up
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2018, 08:17 AM   #498
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,838
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
She was delayed. First the mini-van ran out of gas and then she had to buy the orange slices at the supermarket.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2018, 09:02 AM   #499
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,993
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Boy is her name gonna be mud at Book Club.

(yes... I saw the source)
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2018, 11:33 PM   #500
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,611
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It is notable that humans are willing to risk their lives, undergo lengthy personal hardships, spend huge resources, and accept substantial collateral damage to help save the lives of other specifically identified individuals. In this case 12 boys and their coach. Yet at the same time most humans cannot summon up a fraction of the emotional involvement when the individuals at comparable risk are anonymous.

In this case the world mobilized to save 13 people- as it should be. Yet how many more people in Thailand die every year of preventable or treatable diseases without generating even the shadow of this level of intense effort from either the Thai government or the world's people as a whole? ....
We do the same for a stranded whale or the puppy in the drainage pipe.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 11:46 AM   #501
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,438
After another diver who participated in the rescue again dismissed Musk's submarine as impractical and a "PR stunt", Musk called him a pedophile on Twitter, for no apparent reason.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 12:05 PM   #502
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,993
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
After another diver who participated in the rescue again dismissed Musk's submarine as impractical and a "PR stunt", Musk called him a pedophile on Twitter, for no apparent reason.
Elon's a tough guy to like, that's for sure. And he shouldn't be trying to out-Trump Trump. No idea where the "pedo guy" epithet came from, unless it's just one of Elon's go-to comebacks. Of course... the Brit did tell Elon to shove his sub up his ass.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 12:48 PM   #503
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,914
Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Elon's a tough guy to like, that's for sure. And he shouldn't be trying to out-Trump Trump. No idea where the "pedo guy" epithet came from, unless it's just one of Elon's go-to comebacks. Of course... the Brit did tell Elon to shove his sub up his ass.

Perhaps he meant "speedo guy"?
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 01:26 PM   #504
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,152
Musk seems like even more of a weirdo than I first thought

And I was thinking he was a very big one originally
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 02:36 PM   #505
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,490
Musk goes to bat-crap crazy mode, up a few notches from very weird indeed mode.

"On Sunday, when a Twitter user pointed out that Musk was “calling the guy who found the children a pedo”, the billionaire responded: “Bet ya a signed dollar it’s true.”

If you're interested, check out his promises to workers at his Tesla factory:

“Going forward, I’ve asked that every injury be reported directly to me, without exception. I’m meeting with the safety team every week and would like to meet every injured person as soon as they are well, so that I can understand from them exactly what we need to do to make it better. I will then go down to the production line and perform the same task that they perform.”

He did neither. The man is full of ****.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

Last edited by GlennB; 15th July 2018 at 02:38 PM.
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 05:32 PM   #506
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,310
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Musk goes to bat-crap crazy mode, up a few notches from very weird indeed mode.

"On Sunday, when a Twitter user pointed out that Musk was “calling the guy who found the children a pedo”, the billionaire responded: “Bet ya a signed dollar it’s true.”
.....
In general, people are way too litigious. But that's sure something I'd sue Musk for. I hope there are Thai words for "libel" and "lawyer" and "lawsuit." Maybe he's heard of Avenetti.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2018, 08:26 PM   #507
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
In general, people are way too litigious. But that's sure something I'd sue Musk for. I hope there are Thai words for "libel" and "lawyer" and "lawsuit." Maybe he's heard of Avenetti.
The "pedo guy" target is British. He was one of the divers who first found the kids. Lawsuits for that one would have to be filed in England, I believe.

Elon says he's gonna make a video of his mini-sub going all the way through to chamber five.... e.g. the entire route. This is in response to the head of operations who said it was unsuited to the task. Last week, Elon tweeted something like "Oh, yeah!!?? Stay tuned, jackass!" Now that's the one where Elon better learn about Thai law. The farkin' government here sues (and/or arrests) the press all the time. The governor he called a jackass is not a political supporter of the ruling junta, but the individuals can sue, also. The courts take a very liberal (sic) view of Lese Majeste offenses. Any criticism of people in the government can be deemed treasonous! That includes mayors, governors, police chiefs, heads of military outposts, whatever. Criticize the police? Not only can the officer and his chief sue you for defamation, but the higher courts (with a little push from the gov't) can go after you because the police here are a branch of the military and criticism of the military is against the law!

Now, of course, it's Elon Musk and Thais will fall all over themselves to suck up to money, as is well known.* So one cabal will be trying to convince him to open a rocket plant in Khinom and another will be holding his passport so he can't leave the country until he slips someone a billion baht in face money and yet another group just want to suck-up to him because that's what we do with the super rich.

*Ask the people of Bangkok. Thailand finally started burying their christmas trees of cables last year after tens of thousands of people had mentioned what an eyesore they are and have been for two decades. (Every competing phone and cable provider runs a separate cable. It's not uncommon to have forty strands of spaghetti running down a given block.) Why did we start the project of putting the utilities underground? Because Bill Gates was quoted criticizing us!! This is true.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 12:21 AM   #508
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,914
Whatevs. The dude sucks. What was his prototype? Block 1? Who signed off on it? Who did the final checkout? What if they used it and someone died? What's the difference between his torpedo and a diver with a full face respirator? The latter is way more flexible. Can't believe he actually thought people would use an untried technology v. something that's been around since James Cameron made "The Abyss".
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 12:36 AM   #509
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,446
The pommy guy seemed extremely rude to Musk. Very bad manners, he seems a prize jerk. I back Musk in this,
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 12:53 AM   #510
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,822
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The pommy guy seemed extremely rude to Musk. Very bad manners, he seems a prize jerk. I back Musk in this,
The Pommy guy was actually involved in rescuing the kids. Musk called him a pedophile apparently without any cause. Whatever you think about someone's manners, that is a libellous claim and Musk should be sued for it. English courts make it very easy to do so.

I am usually a fan of Elon Musk and have found his detractors to be the kind of miserablists who hate any achievements. But in this case, Musk is way out of line and his comments are indefensible.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 01:09 AM   #511
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,250
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The pommy guy seemed extremely rude to Musk. Very bad manners, he seems a prize jerk. I back Musk in this,
Yeah Musk stepped way over the line on this and kept walking at a brisk pace . He neeeds to backtrack. The British guy may have been harsh but Elons response will have alot of people thinking he went way to far due to ego.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 01:16 AM   #512
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,490
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The pommy guy seemed extremely rude to Musk. Very bad manners, he seems a prize jerk. I back Musk in this,
Or, Musk showed up with a ridiculous contraption that wasn't going to work and got short shrift from someone who slogged his guts out and risked his life to help get the kids out?

Musk's tweets were nuts.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

Last edited by GlennB; 16th July 2018 at 01:18 AM.
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 02:56 AM   #513
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,446
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Or, Musk showed up with a ridiculous contraption that wasn't going to work and got short shrift from someone who slogged his guts out and risked his life to help get the kids out?

Musk's tweets were nuts.
The pommy guy suggested Musk ram his contraption up his backside.
Musk said pedo not pedophile. Musk was encouraged to continue his development by those in charge, the pommy guy is an insufferable ill mannered fool irrespective of his one trick ponyism.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:08 AM   #514
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,822
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The pommy guy suggested Musk ram his contraption up his backside.
Musk said pedo not pedophile. Musk was encouraged to continue his development by those in charge, the pommy guy is an insufferable ill mannered fool irrespective of his one trick ponyism.
Don’t be silly. Calling someone a pedo is the same as calling someone a pedophile. If you call someone that you had better have evidence to back it up.

Speaking of which what is your basis for calling “the pommy” guy a fool or a one-trick pony?
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:17 AM   #515
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,822
The diver in question, Vernon Unsworth, has hinted he might sue. I hope he does.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...k-by-elon-musk

This is not the first time he has done this kind of thing on Twitter. A recent spat was when he started mocking other users for saying nano. He came out of that looking pretty bad as well because after being downright insulting he started trying to laugh it off as if it were a joke without apologizing.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:21 AM   #516
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,446
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Don’t be silly. Calling someone a pedo is the same as calling someone a pedophile. If you call someone that you had better have evidence to back it up.

Speaking of which what is your basis for calling “the pommy” guy a fool or a one-trick pony?
He is a fool for suggesting Musk stick his invention up his backside.
We know his field of expertise is diving and concomitantly risk taking, why measure this against the wildly successful and varied ambitions of Musk?
Musk was legitimately piqued, mild mannered in response.
As for saying pedo means pedophile, good luck with the law suit. The pommy guy is a deplorable nitwit, maybe not a popular view here, but that is my conclusion.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:22 AM   #517
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,623
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Or, Musk showed up with a ridiculous contraption that wasn't going to work and got short shrift from someone who slogged his guts out and risked his life to help get the kids out?

Musk's tweets were nuts.
Please have understanding for him. He only wanted to help so badly after seeing pictures of the young beautiful boys, but then this cruel man had to maliciously crush his dreams.

No wonder he accused him of being a pedophile: he's upset that this guy was hogging all the fun!
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

Last edited by Arcade22; 16th July 2018 at 03:24 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:30 AM   #518
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,822
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
He is a fool for suggesting Musk stick his invention up his backside.
We know his field of expertise is diving and concomitantly risk taking, why measure this against the wildly successful and varied ambitions of Musk?
Musk was legitimately piqued, mild mannered in response.
As for saying pedo means pedophile, good luck with the law suit. The pommy guy is a deplorable nitwit, maybe not a popular view here, but that is my conclusion.
Unsworth’s first of expertise is instrumental in rescuing the boys on the cave. Who gives a crap about Musk’s “ambitions” in this case? His ambitions are worthless.

And what do you suppose “pedo” means apart from being a “pedophile”? And if Musk’s tweets were so deserving of approbation and weren’t libelous, why do you think Musk deleted them?

Musk will do one of two things now:
Apologize profusely and unequivocally and/or
Get sued.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:42 AM   #519
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,446
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Unsworth’s first of expertise is instrumental in rescuing the boys on the cave. Who gives a crap about Musk’s “ambitions” in this case? His ambitions are worthless.

And what do you suppose “pedo” means apart from being a “pedophile”? And if Musk’s tweets were so deserving of approbation and weren’t libelous, why do you think Musk deleted them?

Musk will do one of two things now:
Apologize profusely and unequivocally and/or
Get sued.
The pommy guy was insufferable and arrogant. I am surprised this hoax is running, Musk is involved in the only sensible use of space technology, diversion of asteroids from the pommy guy's kids' log cabins.
Will pommy guy suggest Musk stick this useful device up his backside?
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2018, 03:47 AM   #520
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,623
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
And what do you suppose “pedo” means apart from being a “pedophile”?
A pedologist? I'm sure that explanation would stand up in court...
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.