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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 19th August 2019, 01:03 PM   #401
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
So, that's a provisional "no" from me on your hypothesis / interesting thing / "not so bad" emissions difference. If my reasoning isn't clear enough, let me know and I can do some graphs, but not right now.

The "clue" is that Germany doesn't contribute enough to the biggest polluter on planet Earth, the Empire's military machine, so any claims of them being "better" in these fields is hippie **** as they lack in murdering people in countries that insist on being sovereign.
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Old 20th August 2019, 11:19 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Schoolchildren in Russia or China have little chance of influence. Schoolchildren in the West do have a chance of influence, by actually affecting public opinion. I would have thought you'd have been well aware of that.
If you like having your opinion influenced you should be all right with the current state of the press: 95% press release governed. Like Greta.
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Old 20th August 2019, 11:22 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
Significant: sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy

It is significant, as we've seen from both the media attention and the actions taken by other school kids.
School children going on strike helps how? (The ones that go ahead appear to have actually been organised and supported by their teachers.)
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Old 20th August 2019, 11:59 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
School children going on strike helps how? (The ones that go ahead appear to have actually been organised and supported by their teachers.)
It is a protest. How does protest help? It is the strongest non-violent way of demonstrating support for something if one doesn't yet have a vote.

As far as I know, the one my daughter took part in was organised by the students. Obviously they told the teachers what they were doing - otherwise there'd be no point. It was against school policy, and indeed our school sent a letter advising us against letting our children take part.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:16 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It is a protest. How does protest help? It is the strongest non-violent way of demonstrating support for something if one doesn't yet have a vote.

As far as I know, the one my daughter took part in was organised by the students. Obviously they told the teachers what they were doing - otherwise there'd be no point. It was against school policy, and indeed our school sent a letter advising us against letting our children take part.
In some parts of Finland schoolkids have been actively reducing the carbon footprint as a matter of daily life.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:18 PM   #406
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Yes, and that precludes protesting how?
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:27 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, and that precludes protesting how?
Isn't it better to set an example. You saw how Prince Harry preached about global pollution...and then jetted off four times within weeks on a private jet with just his family and entourage on board. Yeah, he dishes out the PR but doesn't practise it.

At least Greta practises what she preaches (or at least, is seen to).
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:58 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Isn't it better to set an example. You saw how Prince Harry preached about global pollution...and then jetted off four times within weeks on a private jet with just his family and entourage on board. Yeah, he dishes out the PR but doesn't practise it.

At least Greta practises what she preaches (or at least, is seen to).
And again, the two don't preclude each other.

I also thought you were criticising Thunberg for her choice of transport upthread?

I actually have no idea what points you are trying to make overall. Each post seems to be utterly self-contained, but overall, apart from a nebulous dislike of something to do with Thunberg (or maybe her parents, or possibly her actions) I am lost.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:01 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And again, the two don't preclude each other.

I also thought you were criticising Thunberg for her choice of transport upthread?

I actually have no idea what points you are trying to make overall. Each post seems to be utterly self-contained, but overall, apart from a nebulous dislike of something to do with Thunberg (or maybe her parents, or possibly her actions) I am lost.
If you go back to my earliest messages you will see I don't like PR manipulation, whether it be a party political broadcast or an advert for baked beans.

I was initially misled into believing Greta was a random schoolgirl who of her own volition became an ardent green campaigner, making the trek from her home in Sweden to Poland all by herself.

Then we discover she is just another rich kid tagged 'autistic' for maximum public sympathy manipulation effect and in fact, her parents are her driving force.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:05 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If you go back to my earliest messages you will see I don't like PR manipulation, whether it be a party political broadcast or an advert for baked beans.
I think you are missing the point of protests then.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:07 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think you are missing the point of protests then.
I think to give Greta sole credit for UK school kids going on strike is pandering to a need for celebrity posing.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:27 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I think to give Greta sole credit for UK school kids going on strike is pandering to a need for celebrity posing.
I like horse avatar. Your posts make more sense as a means to keep said horse well fed.
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:05 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
At least Greta practises what she preaches (or at least, is seen to).

It is reported (by the DailyFail) that two people accompanying Greta and her father on the boat (one being Monaco "royalty" who finances the whole thing) will fly back to Europe while two other people are flying to the US to steer the boat back to Monaco. Which would make Greta cry about how her actions are not being thought through if the rag is correct. If not, the wickedness of that outlet would make Greta cry.
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:23 PM   #414
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I deleted a much harder sentence before I posted the above. Abusing children for propaganda is among the most infuriating things to me, no matter how "good" the cause is in the eye of the propagandist. Be it the "they threw the babies out of the incubators" daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US in the early 90s, be it Bana Alabed, Alan Kurdi, Omran Daqneesh or Greta Thunberg. Despicable.
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:29 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I deleted a much harder sentence before I posted the above. Abusing children for propaganda is among the most infuriating things to me, no matter how "good" the cause is in the eye of the propagandist. Be it the "they threw the babies out of the incubators" daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US in the early 90s, be it Bana Alabed, Alan Kurdi, Omran Daqneesh or Greta Thunberg. Despicable.
Abuse? What sort of boat is she on, a row boat?
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:55 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Abuse? What sort of boat is she on, a row boat?

She's on a boat that if what the DailyFail reports is correct is on a trip that will be twice as hurtful to the environment than if she and daddy would have just taken a flight to NYC.
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Old 20th August 2019, 03:08 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
She's on a boat that if what the DailyFail reports is correct is on a trip that will be twice as hurtful to the environment than if she and daddy would have just taken a flight to NYC.
Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously? This is an incredibly petty argument, and not one often directed at world leaders and people like Attenborough and Gore.

Besides, you know you can pay extra to offset the carbon emissions of airfares, dont you? I do it myself and Im willing to bet the people who sailed on the boat with Greta did the same.
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Old 20th August 2019, 03:27 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously? This is an incredibly petty argument, and not one often directed at world leaders and people like Attenborough and Gore.

Besides, you know you can pay extra to offset the carbon emissions of airfares, don’t you? I do it myself and I’m willing to bet the people who sailed on the boat with Greta did the same.

LOL, just out of interest: You calculated the carbon footprint of the cruises and other travels you told us about and donated the equivalent to some causes? If so, that is in some way adorable.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:05 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
LOL, just out of interest: You calculated the carbon footprint of the cruises and other travels you told us about and donated the equivalent to some causes? If so, that is in some way adorable.
Only flights. Its easy to do.

And Im in no way perfect. Drive a car, heat and air condition the house.

None of this changes my position that many governments are not doing enough and that Greta is a force for good.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:27 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
She's on a boat that if what the DailyFail reports is correct is on a trip that will be twice as hurtful to the environment than if she and daddy would have just taken a flight to NYC.
How is that "abusing children" as you previously claimed?
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Old 20th August 2019, 05:31 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It is reported (by the DailyFail) that two people accompanying Greta and her father on the boat (one being Monaco "royalty" who finances the whole thing) will fly back to Europe while two other people are flying to the US to steer the boat back to Monaco. Which would make Greta cry about how her actions are not being thought through if the rag is correct. If not, the wickedness of that outlet would make Greta cry.
Pretty thin gruel.


Did Vlad tell you that Greta's not cool?
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:11 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
How is that "abusing children" as you previously claimed?

I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.

Good on you, lionking.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:41 PM   #423
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What the people on the boat do is nothing to do with Greta. She is just hitching a lift on a trip that was going to take place anyway, so she is saving carbon by not flying, no matter what everyone else who has to do with the boat does. It's not her boat and she is not in control of how everyone who uses the boat, sails the boat, or is a passenger in the boat in future travels in the future.
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:34 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.

Good on you, lionking.
Ah, in which case, I'm also against abusing children,.

I'm also against murder and littering.

It doesn't have anything to do with the thread, but apparently, nor did your statement about abusing children , although from the context of the thread, it certainly implied it.
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Old 21st August 2019, 11:09 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I deleted a much harder sentence before I posted the above. Abusing children for propaganda is among the most infuriating things to me, no matter how "good" the cause is in the eye of the propagandist. Be it the "they threw the babies out of the incubators" daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US in the early 90s, be it Bana Alabed, Alan Kurdi, Omran Daqneesh or Greta Thunberg. Despicable.
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Abuse? What sort of boat is she on, a row boat?
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
She's on a boat that if what the DailyFail reports is correct is on a trip that will be twice as hurtful to the environment than if she and daddy would have just taken a flight to NYC.
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
How is that "abusing children" as you previously claimed?
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.
I guess I lost the thread here, then.

How is Greta being abused for propaganda as you claim in the first post I quote above?
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Old 21st August 2019, 12:56 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I guess I lost the thread here, then.

How is Greta being abused for propaganda as you claim in the first post I quote above?

If you understand that propaganda doesn't have to be based on lies, the answer is rather obvious. Pope, Princes, Parliaments.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:41 PM   #427
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I really don't understand why it's just impossible to believe that a 16-year-old girl might care enough about climate change to be motivated to do something about it unless she was manipulated into feeling that way by unscrupulous adults; and nor do I see why adults accommodating that expressed ambition if they happen to agree with it constitutes "abuse".

Did the adults who let this boy start his lemonade stand "abuse" him thereby?

Quote:
When he was 5, Oliver got inspired to sell lemonade and told his parents he would use proceeds for his college fund, officials said. They told him not to worry about college. Oliver then decided he wanted to donate to the money to St. Jude after learning about it while watching television with his grandmother, officials said.

In Oliver’s first summer selling lemonade, he made $861.25, officials said. This summer, he has made the most money ever for the children’s hospital, raking in more than $3,725, which put him over the $10,000 mark, officials said.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:53 PM   #428
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^you are beating up a strawman. Oliver hasn't met the Pope, spoken at various parliaments and crossed the ocean on a Monaco royal's high-tech boat.

Some people seem to be too thin-skinned to even tolerate any criticism of the phenomenon, not the girl. Is that necessary?
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Old 21st August 2019, 03:24 PM   #429
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btw I just read that it has been one (1) year yesterday, August 20th 2018, that Greta Thunberg for the first time refused to go to school on Friday. Everybody who isn't interested in the story behind the story where she met Pope. Princes and Parliaments in that year is in my opinion a curiously incurious person.
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Old 21st August 2019, 03:41 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously?
Greta's trying to make a serious point with boat travel in place of plane travel. It's hard to take her seriously when this arrangement results in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane herself.
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Old 21st August 2019, 06:23 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I'm surprised no one has had a go at her for the fact that 2 boat crew members have to be flown, FLOWN , out to the US to help sail the boat back to EU.

And this being ISF, then quibble for 3 pages about the actual carbon footprint reduction measures they funded to compensate for the flight.
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It is reported (by the DailyFail) that two people accompanying Greta and her father on the boat (one being Monaco "royalty" who finances the whole thing) will fly back to Europe while two other people are flying to the US to steer the boat back to Monaco. Which would make Greta cry about how her actions are not being thought through if the rag is correct. If not, the wickedness of that outlet would make Greta cry.
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
LOL, just out of interest: You calculated the carbon footprint of the cruises and other travels you told us about and donated the equivalent to some causes? If so, that is in some way adorable.


Nailed it!
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Old 21st August 2019, 08:19 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
^you are beating up a strawman. Oliver hasn't met the Pope, spoken at various parliaments and crossed the ocean on a Monaco royal's high-tech boat.
What difference does it make? Allowing a teenager to speak at a parliament for instance is "abuse" how, exactly?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 12:37 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Greta's trying to make a serious point with boat travel in place of plane travel. It's hard to take her seriously when this arrangement results in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane herself.
But has it resulted in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane? I don't think that has been demonstrated.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 01:15 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously?

It's a weird sort of a gotcha.

People who don't like the shape the world is and want to change it still have to live in it.

Those who (for whatever reason, probably someone's paying them) don't like the message (that we're killing the planet) then observe protesters living in the real world (because there's literally no option) and cry "Look - Hypocrite - you're functioning in the real world."

That those who level this weird accusation think it's some sort of trump card just shows how shallow their thinking is.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 07:57 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
But has it resulted in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane? I don't think that has been demonstrated.
Good point. I misread the original report. It looks ilke the same amount of flying either way:

Greta and her father fly out and fly back - 4 flights.

Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights.

So it's basically an empty gesture, but not actually harmful.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 08:00 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Good point. I misread the original report. It looks ilke the same amount of flying either way:

Greta and her father fly out and fly back - 4 flights.

Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights.

So it's basically an empty gesture, but not actually harmful.
Wait - how do you know that "Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights" wasn't going to happen anyway?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 08:14 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Wait - how do you know that "Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights" wasn't going to happen anyway?
She's just hitching a ride on a boat that was going to make the trip already? Okay, sure. That's pretty responsible, I guess.

Hopefully she spends the entire trip lecturing Monaco guy on the wastefulness of booking four flights when he's got a perfectly good sailboat.

I dunno. No matter how you look at it, it seems like an empty gesture. Yes, she's maybe saving a couple plane trips... By tagging along with one of the world's elites, on his luxury toy, which he happily disregards whenever air travel is more convenient. Everything about the trip except her passage itself is pure consumption. It would have made more sense for her to book passage on a working freighter, that at least produces something of value in exchange for its emissions.

What's the message Thunberg is trying to send here? Air travel is bad? Not if you're European royalty, apparently. If a prince offers you a boat ride, take it?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 08:18 AM   #438
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So she's saved the carbon from four intercontinental flights and you're still complaining?

I guess there's no pleasing some people.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 09:03 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
She's just hitching a ride on a boat that was going to make the trip already? Okay, sure. That's pretty responsible, I guess.
Except the boat wasn't going to make the trip already.

As the origin link, which I assume Matthew Best never bothered to read, made clear: "'We added the trip to New York City at very short notice, and as a result two people will need to fly over to the US in order to bring the boat back,' a Team Malizia spokeswoman told the Times."

She reduced the number of trips her father and her had to take by 4 (trips that were not necessary to make in the first place), and increased the number of trips the crew had to make by 4.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 09:11 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by Wayward son View Post
Except the boat wasn't going to make the trip already.

As the origin link, which I assume Matthew Best never bothered to read, made clear: "'We added the trip to New York City at very short notice, and as a result two people will need to fly over to the US in order to bring the boat back,' a Team Malizia spokeswoman told the Times."

She reduced the number of trips her father and her had to take by 4 (trips that were not necessary to make in the first place), and increased the number of trips the crew had to make by 4.
Well then, that's perfect. There's the excuse you need to ignore her.

Problem is, right wingers can't ignore her, because she's still a massive problem for them.
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