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Tags North Carolina incidents , North Carolina politics , republicans

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Old 20th September 2019, 09:04 PM   #201
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I posted a list of quotes where the argument was clearly the GOP as a whole is scummy. Two of them were yours. I'll remind you:

Here you are making it clear that the whole GOP is "a bunch of lying weasel scumbag hypocrites," GOP supporters are "textbook examples of cognitive dissonance," and in a civilized country the actions of the NC GOP here would merit a "[ban] from participation in politics for about five years." All in response this one ****** move. So yes, it's pretty clear that you think the GOP is pretty dang bad when it comes to supporting lying weaselly scumbag moves.

It is perfectly germane to therefore ask you: Should the Dems have been banned for the way they passed the lottery bill? Are the dems lying weaselly scumbags? Are Dem supporters examples of cognitive dissonance, especially given their overblown response to this move?
Wow! You don't half twist things, eh? You quote me referring to the portion of the GOP that are lying weasel scumbags and saying that we have to keep reminding the other (implicitly casual) supporters that they're supporting lying weasel scumbags.... AND YOU STRAW MAN THAT INTO THE HILITED PHRASE.

I was, first off, referring to the NC GOP. You even quoted the post where I specifically pointed that at. And then you proceed to ignore it. This is identical to the "Look! She called you all deplorables" spin.

If you want to start a thread about the Lottery vote, go ahead and start one. The evidence is not what you think it is. It was more a camp vs camp fight. The pro-lottery element within the Democratic Party but a combined GOP and activist Dems in the anti-lottery camp, with different motivations. It wasn't 100% party partisanship. As whataboutism goes it gets about a six on a scale of one to ten.

And you ignore the main thrust. "Here's examples of your side doing it" is the very definition of whataboutism. And it plays right into the apologist's dogma of "show me how this is unique to my side".

No one's claimed it was unique. No one claimed it was every single Republican or every single Republican supporter. No one claimed ALL TRUMP VOTERS were deplorable. This is all political spin to distract and dodge the responsibility for the bad choices some you supposedly "thinking conservatives" have made.

But if it makes you happy, yeah, if you can actually show that the Dems (uniquely, of course) pulled similar dirty tricks on the Lottery vote (or any vote), I'd vote to censure the party in some form. The Louisiana Democrats should've been barred from running in State elections for two or three election cycles for their support of the borderline totalitarianism of Huey P. Long. Fining, jailing or censuring a few fall guys does nothing if the parties are allowed to continue in the same vein.
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Old 20th September 2019, 09:59 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And did you get the corroborating evidence? Because the OP has been pretty well debunked -9/11 had nothing to do with anything, just good ol' political chicanery.
The 9/11 thing you keep harping isnít what Iím talking about.

But to that point, what you seem to not grasp is that the record was corrected and the claim was no longer being made.

People make mistakes and get things wrong sometimes. Thatís not the issue. The issue is when someone gets something wrong and then instead of accepting the error when itís pointed out to them, they double-down on it and continue to insist that they are right.

And thatís what youíre doing now.

As far as the corroborating evidence, I was talking about the claim that Republicans lied to the Democrats about whether or not a vote would be held.

If the Democrats claim one version of events and the Republicans claim another, a fair-minded person couldnít make a reasonable determination of truth absent any corroboration.

But when it turns out that the Republican who claims he didnít tell the Democrats there would be no vote did tell a reporter there would be no vote, the Republican version of events becomes suspect.

In that case, a fair-minded person might reach the reasonable conclusion that the Republicans are lying.
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Old 21st September 2019, 03:29 AM   #203
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I wonder why the Trump supporters here and on the rest of the Web who complain about "special pleading" and "different standards", and that we should criticize both sides just as much don't make a point of criticising Republicans as much as they criticise Democrats. It's almost as if ...
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Old 21st September 2019, 09:00 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I wonder why the Trump supporters here and on the rest of the Web who complain about "special pleading" and "different standards", and that we should criticize both sides just as much don't make a point of criticising Republicans as much as they criticise Democrats. It's almost as if ...


I have criticized Republicans and Iíve seen other posters who are viewed as conservative do so as well . Right here in this thread even. You can look at the ďDonald Trump is dangerously mentally ill...Ē thread for more examples.

You wonít find me on threads where the issues have been well sussed-out and thereís no need for more piling on. Yeah, the Republicans suck. Politics sucks in general. I limit my participation in this sub to issues that interest me, where I feel I have a different angle to contribute or where I want to add my voice to particular POV.

In this thread, my interest was in countering the ďGOP is evil!Ē refrain that was being sung. Apparently, if I donít jump on the bandwagon, Iím a liar who has nothing to contribute. Whatever. Iíve made my point; long live bandwagoning!
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Old 21st September 2019, 10:30 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
In this thread, my interest was in countering the ďGOP is evil!Ē refrain that was being sung.
If you want to perpetuate the charade that youíre just a fair-minded balancer of the scales, you need to try a lot harder.

When you come into this thread proclaiming right-wing blogs as irrefutable historical documents, it makes you look desperate and your true intentions become that much more obvious.
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Old 21st September 2019, 10:51 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
If you want to perpetuate the charade that youíre just a fair-minded balancer of the scales, you need to try a lot harder.



When you come into this thread proclaiming right-wing blogs as irrefutable historical documents, it makes you look desperate and your true intentions become that much more obvious.
And what are my true intentions again, oh psychic wonder?

Maybe you should stop trying to divine my intentions and just respond to what I say -you know, address the argument instead of the arguer. Too many here are more interested in smearing people with a broad brush than actually listening.

Iíve substantiated the events recounted in those blogs. You can respond to that or not. Whatever.
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Old 21st September 2019, 11:19 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And what are my true intentions again, oh psychic wonder?

One does not have to be psychic to read a sign being shoved in one's face.

Quote:
I’ve substantiated the events recounted in those blogs. You can respond to that or not. Whatever.

No you haven't. You've only provided highly-partisan assertions without evidence. Until you provide corroborating evidence from an effectively unbiased source that substantiates these assertions, it's just more pathetic whataboutism and evasion.
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Old 21st September 2019, 11:43 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And what are my true intentions again, oh psychic wonder?
To push the Trump-era conservative narrative that everything is fine, Trump is just doing regular president stuff, this is just politics as usual, so settle down you have TDS, Democrats are bad too, and also everything is fine.

Quote:
Maybe you should stop trying to divine my intentions and just respond to what I say -you know, address the argument instead of the arguer. Too many here are more interested in smearing people with a broad brush than actually listening.
No one has been smeared and it doesnít require divination to ascertain your intentions, only an ability to observe the obvious.

And I have addressed your arguments over and over, and told you in detail why they are poor. Your response has been to ignore the points Iíve made and come after me for somehow being unfair to you.

Quote:
Iíve substantiated the events recounted in those blogs. You can respond to that or not. Whatever.
Except that you havenít. Those blogs claim the Democrats engaged in some kind of deception. No neutral source substantiates that claim.
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Old 21st September 2019, 11:51 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And what are my true intentions again, oh psychic wonder?

Maybe you should stop trying to divine my intentions and just respond to what I say -you know, address the argument instead of the arguer. Too many here are more interested in smearing people with a broad brush than actually listening.

Iíve substantiated the events recounted in those blogs. You can respond to that or not. Whatever.
Sure. As sure as you respond to the actual topic and not a "Whatboutataism" hijack you inject into the discussion.
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Old 21st September 2019, 02:10 PM   #210
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[quote=luchog;12827931]One does not have to be psychic to read a sign being shoved in one's face. make stuff up.

There I made your sentence true.


Quote:
No you haven't. You've only provided highly-partisan assertions without evidence. Until you provide corroborating evidence from an effectively unbiased source that substantiates these assertions, it's just more pathetic whataboutism and evasion.
NYT and WRAL are partisan? Itís as I said: Any source I provide will be shot down. Maybe Iím the psychic...
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Old 21st September 2019, 04:31 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post

Maybe you should stop trying to divine my intentions and just respond to what I say -you know, address the argument instead of the arguer.

Sure, any time you're ready to provide a legitimate cite as opposed to a biased blog, we'll be ready to listen.

Until then, I'll at least persist in calling out your BS.
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Old 21st September 2019, 08:58 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Ah, yes! The old UNIQUELY gambit. Wasn't it Ziggurat who got ten pages of whataboutism (covering multiple decades, if not complete centuries) out of a similar straw man claim? I'm pretty sure it was in defense of Trump, but the argument was "Show that Trump is Uniquely more __________ (evil, incompetent, a liar, whatever...).

It may be a fine point of grammar and vocabulary, but the argument is not that the North Carolina GOP is UNIQUELY scummy, but that the North Carolina GOP is SPECIFICALLY scummy,... in this case. The fact that LaGuardia did similar tricks in NYC or Huey Long in Louisiana has no bearing whatsoever. Was the GOP action in this case scummy? Yes, it was.
One notable similarity in both cases was that the majority opinion of the citizenry was on the side of the Democrats, but as we know, the NC GOP isn't overly fond of democracy. One notable difference is that while the Dem action on the lottery does appear to be opportunistic, the GOP action on the budget was clearly deliberate deceit: none of the Dems knew there would be a vote, but every Republican knew there would be. I might use those two facts and a few more to argue that NC GOP is uniquely scummy.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 09:29 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
NYT and WRAL are partisan? Itís as I said: Any source I provide will be shot down. Maybe Iím the psychic...
The NYT and WRAL do not substantiate your claim that Democrats somehow deceived the Republicans.
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