ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 9th October 2019, 05:40 AM   #121
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,749
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I can't believe "what Brown wore in court" is apparently an actual catalyst for anger in some people.
I'm rather bemused by it myself. He wasn't the one on trial. He wasn't trying to convince anyone what a serious businesslike person he was. Why should he dress in clothes he'd never otherwise wear?

Sure, if it was me, I'd try to dress smartly. I expect I'd dust off a tie. But I'm easily intimidated by authority. Maybe he chose his attire to make the point that he wasn't.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 06:57 AM   #122
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 16,134
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I can't believe "what Brown wore in court" is apparently an actual catalyst for anger in some people.

It's not. It's manufactured outrage intended to obfuscate and distract from the real issue at hand. It's demonizing the opposition in the absence of any substantive counterpoint.
__________________
When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
luchog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:02 AM   #123
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,005
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I can't believe "what Brown wore in court" is apparently an actual catalyst for anger in some people.
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's not. It's manufactured outrage intended to obfuscate and distract from the real issue at hand. It's demonizing the opposition in the absence of any substantive counterpoint.
What are you guys talking about? I don't think I've seen any anger or outrage about the shirt in this thread. Some mild discussion about whether it's appropriate courtroom attire. But the two of you seem to be expressing a degree of anger and outrage about the anger and outrage of others, that isn't really justified by the degree of anger and outrage they've actually expressed. What am I missing?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:13 AM   #124
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You just compared being a witness in a court case to going to a funeral?
It's a murder trial, with a grieving family in the front row and the murderer in the defense seat. Yeah, not far from a funeral, in terms of solemnity. Not quite the place to don pastel kiddie garb.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:24 AM   #125
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I've seen some remark that it seems convenient that the one of the three who is still missing is alleged to have taken all the drugs, all the money, and all the weapons involved (including Brown's), in short, all of the physical evidence of the crime, and disappeared with it. I suppose we will have to wait and see whether this evidence cache will turn up when he is finally apprehended.
Yeah, low level guys grab everything they can. Guns, drugs, money, the guys phone, wallet and anything else. Both because 'free spoils' and to remove evidence that would connect them. Texts on phone and whatnot.

Quote:
It seems odd to me that if Brown had apparently taken the important leap from occasional drug-user to full-on drug dealer, that he would volunteer to play an active role as a witness in a police investigation, even to the point of participating in a very public trial, knowing the whole time he's got several pounds of contraband and a stack of incriminating cash in his apartment, steps away from the murder scene.
I take it you missed the part where Brown took off to California to avoid testifying and came back under threat of arrest, which would obviously be bad for him if they went in his apartment?

Quote:
But then, on very rare occasions, it has happened that a murderer has presented himself to the police as a concerned bystander/citizen who wants to help the police solve the dastardly crime by giving any information he can, in the hopes that this facade will keep the police's suspicion away from him and pointed in other directions.
Yeah, I got another $20 that police already knew he was dealing, and threatened him with it. He had 12 pounds of pot, and I think something like 14,000 doses of tic, assuming 10 mg/hit (not positive about dosage anymore)?

The Louisiana thing is weird, though. Mighty long ride for a deal. Possible a bigger deal was in the works, with goods not yet found (third location). And he was in the parking lot of his own apartment. Dumbest possible meeting place for a transaction. We'll see.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:26 AM   #126
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What are you guys talking about? I don't think I've seen any anger or outrage about the shirt in this thread. Some mild discussion about whether it's appropriate courtroom attire. But the two of you seem to be expressing a degree of anger and outrage about the anger and outrage of others, that isn't really justified by the degree of anger and outrage they've actually expressed. What am I missing?
You're not missing anything. Others are missing a lot. Maybe they have neck tats?
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:36 AM   #127
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah yes the "What? Oh nooooo I'm not judging you, no siree I would never do that. I'm just judging the fact that you don't realize other people are going to judge you... in a way that is functionally identical to me being the one judging you" argument.

Always liked that one.
Not judging. Obviously. Evaluating, or collecting non-verbal information. Some info more tentative than others.

I met a guy once, and glanced at his hand when shaking it. From that, I correctly guessed that he trained in martial arts, which style, his instructor, and his approximate rank. I think it's fun to play with.

We all know the trick of seeing if the spines are broken on books people display. I apply that all the time. I designed a kitchen once for people who thought they wanted a traditional style to match their house. But all the cheap trinkets they had around were sleek and modern. My experience is that people show their true taste in the cheap things (where money is no object). So I proposed a European style kitchen. They loved it, and we expanded to modernize other areas of the house.

We collect information from appearances. Tentatively, and constantly revised and updated. I don't even believe that you don't, as well.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 10:35 AM   #128
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,258
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
TBF I do come from one of the most heavily tattooed and laid back, non prudish countries in the world, so may be just a cultural thing.
Yeah mate, I'm getting that, too.

By NZ standards, he was over-dressed.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's not. It's manufactured outrage intended to obfuscate and distract from the real issue at hand. It's demonizing the opposition in the absence of any substantive counterpoint.
^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly that.

I do find it amusing that 300 years after Gulliver's Travels was written that people still think clothing displays the measure of the person wearing them.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 12:23 PM   #129
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,359
Daily Mail reported that he also was wearing shorts in court. I didn't know that. It's strange and disrespectful.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 05:32 AM   #130
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Got another one of the Louisiana buyers. Still looking for 22 yr old Tad Green, the alleged shooter. Still remains to be seen if they are deep cover operatives for Dallas PD or patsys or...whatever the running CT is now.

Actually, not sure how they IDed Green as the shooter. If the only live witness police had is the guy Brown shot, he is either rolling on his boys or lying.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/09/joshua...-guyger-trial/

eta: cops say the shooter was dropped off before bringing the shot guy to a Dallas hospital. The car was returned to the rental company on Sunday. So is Green still hanging out in Dallas?
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

Last edited by Thermal; 10th October 2019 at 05:37 AM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 06:14 AM   #131
sphenisc
Illuminator
 
sphenisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,958
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Actually, not sure how they IDed Green as the shooter. If the only live witness police had is the guy Brown shot, he is either rolling on his boys or lying.
I think they've confused CCTV footage with Reservoir Dogs.
__________________
"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen
sphenisc is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 06:38 AM   #132
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Seriously, this could be fun. Since random conspiracy theories are all the rage here, I speculate some more:

A) Green is a rival dealer who was nowhere near the incident, getting conveniently set up by the Mitchells. Mike would have had time to dispose of the evidence and clean the residue off his hands by now, so nothing to ID him as anything but the driver.

B) Green is a willing dupe/alibi. He and Mitchell point the finger at each other as the shooter. Jacks testimony given little weight on the theory that he is protecting his relative (Mike and he are related), or Green has a willing accomplice in Louisiana to alibi him at the time of the shooting. Jury cannot convict.

A Dallas cop, weary from investigating this matter, is overworked and sleepy, goes home but drives up one too many floors in his apartment and...
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 06:52 AM   #133
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,359
C) Green and Guyger had been having a torrid sexual relationship. She decided to have him eliminated and arranged for a hit squad. The drugs are a red herring and the "drug deal gone bad" is not what really happened.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 07:01 AM   #134
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
D) Bunny was the jilted lover of Brown, who had recently started a fling with Green. She contracts Guyger to whack Brown, but she was sleepy and that subplot plays out. She contracts the Mitchell Cleaning Services to make it all go away.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 07:23 AM   #135
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,991
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I'm old enough to remember when it seemed like there were two types of people who had tattoos: sailors and ex-convicts. That said, things have certainly changed and they are commonplace nowadays--even the full tattoo sleeve is not unusual.

I do wonder what those tattoos will look like 30 years from now, when the flesh has bulged and sagged a bit. I'm thinking it'll be like when you pressed the Silly Putty against a comic to get the image and then stretched the Silly Putty out so the comic was distorted.
You left out Holocaust survivors.

My nephew has a tat on his arm. I never could figure out what it was supposed to be, blue and red, it looks like a bad bruise. Schmeary mess. Are there some people on whom the ink bleeds?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 08:16 AM   #136
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,359
Mr. Brown
Mr. Green

Nobody seems to know where Mr. Pink is. That is not a coincidence.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 08:23 AM   #137
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Couple more pieces of the puzzle:

Police in Louisiana called Dallas PD, having received an anonymous tip that the Mitchells and an unknown third shot Brown in a robbery gone bad. So there's a rat out there, who might be looking at that $100 G reward.

Also, Jacky (who Brown allegedly shot) originally gave his name as Demon Martin. So when everybody gets their story straight, the whole narrative may still be rewritten a couple times before this is done.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/10/thadd...hael-mitchell/

eta: and all three are related, Mike is the uncle and the other two cousins. And Green, the missing 22 yr old shooter, arranged everything and has all the evidence and is apparently gone. Yeah, this story is gonna change once or twice more.

eta, second toke: the article says that the black bookbag they took from Brown contained the weed they were buying. A bookbag would only hold a pound or so of pot. I assumed the bag contained THC, more product in a small package.

So they drove from Louisiana for a pound of pot? What are we talking, a grand or two? Something is certainly not right there.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

Last edited by Thermal; 10th October 2019 at 09:34 AM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 10:17 AM   #138
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,991
Now that we know he is a dead druggie, is there any description of the tat? Jailhouse/drug/gang, or My Little Pony?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 11:40 AM   #139
TomB
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post

eta, second toke: the article says that the black bookbag they took from Brown contained the weed they were buying. A bookbag would only hold a pound or so of pot. I assumed the bag contained THC, more product in a small package.
Freudian slip? Appropriate typo?
TomB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2019, 03:49 PM   #140
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,686
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Freudian slip? Appropriate typo?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2019, 07:18 AM   #141
Lithrael
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
My nephew has a tat on his arm. I never could figure out what it was supposed to be, blue and red, it looks like a bad bruise. Schmeary mess. Are there some people on whom the ink bleeds?
Itís common for tats to eventually blur, but one that blurs early or badly is usually the artistís mistake, sign of inexperience or bad training. Itís usually from not getting the ink to the right depth iirc.
Lithrael is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2019, 08:55 AM   #142
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,410
Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
Itís common for tats to eventually blur, but one that blurs early or badly is usually the artistís mistake, sign of inexperience or bad training. Itís usually from not getting the ink to the right depth iirc.
If the artist does not get the ink to the right depth, isn't it a sign of the artist not being experienced enough to know/do it correctly?
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2019, 06:56 AM   #143
Lithrael
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,625
It can be, it happens to good artists too sometimes, anytime they work with very thin skin. If it happens on a big outside forearm tattoo on a thick skinned guy then itís probably not the work of a very good tattoo artist. Apparently itís called blowout, and itís from getting the ink deeper than intended, where it can seep out into surrounding tissues. The depth of skin youíre trying to hit, the ink stays where you put it, more or less.

I am always a little surprised at how many people are not that picky about making sure they are working with a very good tattoo artist.

On topic: I have no idea what to think about this one. It does look weird. But lots of real life does look weird. I feel for the guy though, DBZ shirt and all. It doesn't seem like he was a guy that went out of his way to make the world a worse place or anything.
Lithrael is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2019, 08:34 AM   #144
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 10,238
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I'm old enough to remember when it seemed like there were two types of people who had tattoos: sailors and ex-convicts. That said, things have certainly changed and they are commonplace nowadays--even the full tattoo sleeve is not unusual...
I'm always a bit surprised when I see police officers with tattoos. Even in Oklahoma.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trooper with tat.jpg (96.9 KB, 11 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2019, 09:18 AM   #145
Shepherd
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 311
Public Service Announcement: Don't fall asleep when letting your kids use permanent markers.
Shepherd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.