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Old 5th October 2019, 07:55 PM   #1
a_unique_person
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How do we responsd as a society and individuals to global warming.

Put a price on CO2. Simple. That is what the researchers have told us for decades now, and it works.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:00 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Put a price on CO2. Simple. That is what the researchers have told us for decades now, and it works.
They tried it with carbon credits

Corporates pay other people to get credits to emit the same amount.

The Corporates then just charged customers more to off set the price they had to pay the other people to emit the same out.

Net result

Poor people find it harder to buy products through no fault of their own and the emissions are the same.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:25 PM   #3
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I don't think you understand how carbon credits work.



Carbon credits are just one response to a rise in CO2 prices. The other I can think of is to use non-CO2 sources of energy or use less energy.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I don't think you understand how carbon credits work.



Carbon credits are just one response to a rise in CO2 prices. The other I can think of is to use non-CO2 sources of energy or use less energy.
In an idyllic scenario of your plan that would be great. I encourage it.


It is easy off the tongue, but that isn't what happens.

They just pay someone for credits to emit their same **** and add it to the cost.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:34 PM   #5
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OK...

Things I have done (in no particular order of importance):
  1. Insulated my home
  2. Installed double glazing
  3. Installed window shutters
  4. Rode a bicycle to work for 10 years
  5. Sourced food locally (including growing some)
  6. Photo voltaic panels on the roof
  7. Bought a plug-in hybrid car
  8. Didn't have children
  9. Holiday locally
  10. Harvest and use rainwater for domestic tasks
  11. Recycle everything
  12. Reuse a lot

It may not help much but it's better than nothing.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:34 PM   #6
a_unique_person
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That is not all they do. The carbon offsets are a reduction in CO2 elsewhere. Their price goes up, meaning that, in a market, alternatives become more attractive.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That is not all they do. The carbon offsets are a reduction in CO2 elsewhere. Their price goes up, meaning that, in a market, alternatives become more attractive.
Alternatives which are cheaper as they are made in countries which have no emission costs

It is a revolving door
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That is not all they do. The carbon offsets are a reduction in CO2 elsewhere. Their price goes up, meaning that, in a market, alternatives become more attractive.
Most carbon offset schemes are either flawed or outright scams.

As someone on this forum posted some time ago,

If youíre fat and want to lose weight, you donít pay someone else to go on a diet.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
OK...

Things I have done (in no particular order of importance):
  1. Insulated my home
  2. Installed double glazing
  3. Installed window shutters
  4. Rode a bicycle to work for 10 years
  5. Sourced food locally (including growing some)
  6. Photo voltaic panels on the roof
  7. Bought a plug-in hybrid car
  8. Didn't have children
  9. Holiday locally
  10. Harvest and use rainwater for domestic tasks
  11. Recycle everything
  12. Reuse a lot

It may not help much but it's better than nothing.
Now that is stellar.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:49 PM   #10
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Let me give you an example.

NZ has the most carbon efficient methods of farming in the world, but our cows still burp methane.

Our current govt (Labour/Green/an old guy) says this isn't good enough and want to slash livestock numbers.

Meaning less meat and milk being exported. Meaning less emissions through less stock burping methane

This obviously brings our emissions down.

Great

Except world demand still needs the same amount of meat and milk

So what happens is countries just buy the difference from countries with less efficient emission controls.

Which means world emissions actually go up, while our govt pretends they have done something.

You can say the same about coal our current govt banned the mining of.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 5th October 2019 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Now that is stellar.
Thank you.

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Old 5th October 2019, 09:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Most carbon offset schemes are either flawed or outright scams.



As someone on this forum posted some time ago,



If youíre fat and want to lose weight, you donít pay someone else to go on a diet.
Someone told me that overall they are effective.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 5th October 2019, 09:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Alternatives which are cheaper as they are made in countries which have no emission costs



It is a revolving door
A claim with no merit.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 5th October 2019, 09:44 PM   #14
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Ditch GDP as a measure of economic health/success.
Introduce an index for climate coping an make it a political and economic goal to maximize that.
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Old 5th October 2019, 09:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
OK...

Things I have done (in no particular order of importance):
  1. Insulated my home
  2. Installed double glazing
  3. Installed window shutters
  4. Rode a bicycle to work for 10 years
  5. Sourced food locally (including growing some)
  6. Photo voltaic panels on the roof
  7. Bought a plug-in hybrid car
  8. Didn't have children
  9. Holiday locally
  10. Harvest and use rainwater for domestic tasks
  11. Recycle everything
  12. Reuse a lot

It may not help much but it's better than nothing.
We're getting new windows in about a month (final measurements were today).
After that well follow through with getting solar panels on the roof (had that assessed a few months ago).
We've improved some of the insulation in the house, just the parts I could do myself.
Low flow shower heads, low water use laundry machine
Fewer showers than the average American (that's a huge difference between America and most everywhere else).
All LED lighting in the house
Let the house get warm in summer and cold in winter. Not freezing, but there's no reason to keep the house above 68 f when it is 20 f outside. We let it get down to 63 at night when we're all tucked under blankets anyway.
We recycle as much as we can, but from what I understand much of it ends up in the landfill anyway.
We don't travel much, but that is honestly more down to finances and job schedules than any environmental ethic.

One of our cars is getting old. It's a mid-size car, which we needed at the time. The replacement can be smaller. I would love to get a hybrid, preferably a plug-in, but I don't know if we'll be able to afford it.

I wish we drove less, but it seems live we always need to be somewhere. That's probably my biggest inefficiency.

Other options are limited. I live near Denver, and like most western American cities, mass transit is limited. They're building light rail through our neighborhood, but it is already in the fourth year of the projected two-year construction schedule, and more delays have been announced. Even then, it would take much longer to get to work, and the closest rail station still not very close to my office.

It's hard sometimes. Like all people, we're dependent upon corporations and politicians to do much of the heavy lifting. I can tell the power company that I'm okay with paying a more for power if it comes renewable sources, but I can't go down and shut down the coal fired plant myself. I can tell politicians what policies I support, but I can't force everyone to vote for the right people who will actually vote in the changes we need.
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Old 5th October 2019, 09:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A claim with no merit.
I disagree.

If a consumer can no longer afford a low emission countries product then the consumer goes to the cheaper high emission countries.

It is this along with atrocious wages, that is the reason most cheap **** is Chinese or other asian countries
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th October 2019, 09:56 PM   #17
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Much like another in this thread we have made some changes in our lifestyle.

No heat or AC at all
Bike as transport, public transport for my wife
Solar hot water
Near all LED lights
Repair or reuse as possible
Buy locally when possible

I recycle metals and do a lot of DIY making decor and furniture. That includes a lot of recycling . Not a clean slate record for me but a significant result without reducing our lifestyle to uncomfortable.
We don't live in a hovel or dress in thrift shop rags, there are a few luxuries we indulge in yet and enjoy.
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Old 5th October 2019, 10:18 PM   #18
xjx388
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Changes we have made:

We both drive hybrids now

We set our thermostat to 75 during the day and 72 at night -we live in a hot humid area.
All LED lighting

Switched to a more expensive electric plan that supposedly uses mostly renewables

Installed a variable speed pool pump

We donít travel by plane as much as we used to

Eliminated our use of disposable plastic

Things we have tried to do with mixed success or want to do:

Biking to work -very difficult to do because of how hot it is here most of the year. It was 94 here today, for example and itís really only feasible to do from late November to February.

Install solar - in the works but itís expensive. My dream is the Tesla roof but that seems too pie in the sky in our area.

Buy a plug-in EV -Again, difficult because of the lack of plug in stations along our longer-distance travel routes and the expense.

Recycle -we are pretty religious about it but I know our community just chucks most of it in landfills anyway.


I want to do more but I donít know what. And we feel like it doesnít really matter because we are just a small grain of sand on a beach -what real difference would making those extra expenses do? The changes we have made have actually saved us money for the most part but further changes would require a bigger up front investment with questionable return -financially anyway.

I think if we want to motivate bigger individual changes, we have to incentivize
the big changes.
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Old 5th October 2019, 10:26 PM   #19
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Stop eating beef and pork.
Reduce video streaming.
In autumn I barely keep the heat or AC on at all.

But those are hard to do.
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Old 5th October 2019, 10:36 PM   #20
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Stop eating beef and pork.
Reduce video streaming.
In autumn I barely keep the heat or AC on at all.

But those are hard to do.
Genuinely interested in how this one reduces emissions?

Would think it would be the opposite
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
We're getting new windows in about a month (final measurements were today).
After that well follow through with getting solar panels on the roof (had that assessed a few months ago).
We've improved some of the insulation in the house, just the parts I could do myself.
Low flow shower heads, low water use laundry machine
Fewer showers than the average American (that's a huge difference between America and most everywhere else).
All LED lighting in the house
Let the house get warm in summer and cold in winter. Not freezing, but there's no reason to keep the house above 68 f when it is 20 f outside. We let it get down to 63 at night when we're all tucked under blankets anyway.
We recycle as much as we can, but from what I understand much of it ends up in the landfill anyway.
We don't travel much, but that is honestly more down to finances and job schedules than any environmental ethic.

One of our cars is getting old. It's a mid-size car, which we needed at the time. The replacement can be smaller. I would love to get a hybrid, preferably a plug-in, but I don't know if we'll be able to afford it.

I wish we drove less, but it seems live we always need to be somewhere. That's probably my biggest inefficiency.

Other options are limited. I live near Denver, and like most western American cities, mass transit is limited. They're building light rail through our neighborhood, but it is already in the fourth year of the projected two-year construction schedule, and more delays have been announced. Even then, it would take much longer to get to work, and the closest rail station still not very close to my office.

It's hard sometimes. Like all people, we're dependent upon corporations and politicians to do much of the heavy lifting. I can tell the power company that I'm okay with paying a more for power if it comes renewable sources, but I can't go down and shut down the coal fired plant myself. I can tell politicians what policies I support, but I can't force everyone to vote for the right people who will actually vote in the changes we need.
Yep, all good personal efforts.

Keep up the good work!



Riding to work is one of those things that just isn't practical for a lot of people (probably even most), for many reasons.

I've just been fortunate in the choices available to me.

I like the idea that people can see others making changes, and it catches on.

Oooh another one.

I've never owned a clothes dryer.

This is practical in the parts of Australia where I've lived, in other places probably not practical at all.

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Old 5th October 2019, 11:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Genuinely interested in how this one reduces emissions?

Would think it would be the opposite
Especially if one replaces watching a movie at home, with traveling to another place to watch a movie there.

I've noticed a common theme among global warming deniers, that they think:

"You're using a computer so you lose the argument, so there." is some kind of gotcha.

Hopefully this isn't one of those...

I can tell you that computer use is a tiny blip on the electricity bill for me.

(Oh crap, I forgot to add the solar hot water system in my list)
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:00 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Especially if one replaces watching a movie at home, with traveling to another place to watch a movie there.

I've noticed a common theme among global warming deniers, that they think:

"You're using a computer so you lose the argument, so there." is some kind of gotcha.

Hopefully this isn't one of those...

I can tell you that computer use is a tiny blip on the electricity bill for me.

(Oh crap, I forgot to add the solar hot water system in my list)

Dumb argument

Cryptocurrency alone takes way more emissions than most other things

I work with them

The cooling required for large super computers is atrocious

I know

I meant I thought streaming a progam would be less than funneling it through media station corperates with heaps of staff using computers.

A simple I don't know would have been fine.

I am willing to be proved wrong. Just thought it was an odd choice to add
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 6th October 2019 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:05 AM   #24
EHocking
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Someone told me that overall they are effective.
It is not clear cut to me. I was mostly thinking about carbon credit trading, but I find this Nature article to be a sobering take on the validity of Carbon Offsetting.
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Old 6th October 2019, 01:02 AM   #25
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I disagree.

If a consumer can no longer afford a low emission countries product then the consumer goes to the cheaper high emission countries.

It is this along with atrocious wages, that is the reason most cheap **** is Chinese or other asian countries

A huge chunk of Australia's CO2 creation comes from coal power. Putting up the price of coal power does not mean we buy it from India instead.
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For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 6th October 2019, 01:16 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A huge chunk of Australia's CO2 creation comes from coal power. Putting up the price of coal power does not mean we buy it from India instead.
Stopping providing coal does, which was my point.

As best as possible countries stopping supplying like our govt has out of no where done, with zero consultation, means the buyer just buys from less best as poss wise and emissions go up and nature is destroyed to boot, as they have less regard for the environment.

Kind of a double whammy

Except it is triple, as the later countries are usually poorer. Them selling more means their gdp goes up

Which means their population gets richer and they can afford more things that emit.

Which means demand goes up

But the best emissions practice countries are no longer supplying, so supply comes from worst case places.

Meaning emissions are actually worse.

So unless someone comes up with a magic replacement for coal, she is a bit of vicious circle
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 6th October 2019, 01:38 AM   #27
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Moved the goal posts. In terms of Australia cutting coal created CO2 emissions, putting up the price of coal cuts CO2 emissions.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:00 AM   #28
cullennz
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Moved the goal posts. In terms of Australia cutting coal created CO2 emissions, putting up the price of coal cuts CO2 emissions.
Apologies

My original point was the mining and selling coal.

If you mean consumption then yes, but good luck without a viable alternative
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:17 AM   #29
a_unique_person
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As alternatives become viable compared to coal they become more efficient and replace coal. Market forces combined with scientific advances.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:23 AM   #30
cullennz
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
As alternatives become viable compared to coal they become more efficient and replace coal. Market forces combined with scientific advances.
But in the interim we need coal
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:49 AM   #31
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Salinger says.

Quote:
Life in the oceans around us were significantly disrupted: coastal seaweed forests struggled to grow, farmed salmon in the Marlborough Sounds died and Queensland groper occurred in Northland Ė 3000km out of range.

This is yet another dire warning that we must hasten our action on reducing emissions as time is running out.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:10 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Salinger says.
I have personal reasons to respect what Salinger says, but you have to admit that is a bit vague.

It looks a bit chosen snippets
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:52 AM   #33
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Here is the link.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12204317
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
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For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 6th October 2019, 05:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Yep, all good personal efforts.

Keep up the good work!




Oooh another one.

I've never owned a clothes dryer.


I'd rather not have one, but my wife insists on one for socks and underwear so the thing is only running 1-2 hours/week. Everything else gets hung up on plastic hangers and hooked to the molding around the interior doorways. It looks like crap, for sure, but we're not expecting Martha Stewart to walk in anytime soon.

I'd ride to work too. I did when I had a regular job but now I have to haul 100 kilos of stuff with me every day. I've been trying to get storage for my stuff for 15 years and so far, no luck.

The funny think is...I'm trying to get storage from government, a lefty Eco-concious government and so far no luck even when I cite the environmental benefits of me not having to drive to work. My commute is only 8 minutes, but they don't know that however next year......Next year may be different as there's a new property manager who might just be willing to free up some of those 1000s of square feet of vacant unused space they have only steps from where I need to use my stuff.
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Old 6th October 2019, 07:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Yep, all good personal efforts.

Keep up the good work!



Riding to work is one of those things that just isn't practical for a lot of people (probably even most), for many reasons.

I've just been fortunate in the choices available to me.

I like the idea that people can see others making changes, and it catches on.

Oooh another one.

I've never owned a clothes dryer.

This is practical in the parts of Australia where I've lived, in other places probably not practical at all.

My family doesn't own a clothes dryer either. They dry it on a clothes hanger outside in the summer and inside in the winter.

Most of our energy in Canada comes from Nuclear power plants such as CANDU (Canada Deuterium Uranium).

In the province/state where I live 60% of our energy comes from nuclear. Since June 30, 2019, 5,728 megawatts of energy have been produced by 2 stations!

Source : https://www.opg.com/powering-ontario...ation/nuclear/
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Old 6th October 2019, 11:58 AM   #36
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A few things I would be in on if they became available:

Long life battery technology not using as much rare or toxic metals
The size could be a bit thicker and I would forgive that.

Servicable electronic items. Update capable with a new board, stuff like that. I have to retire phones when service technology changes, some were in perfect condition but no longer online capable.

Kits to convert current gas engine cars to electric. Generic solid, simple tech that would use the chassis and transmission of what we have to be cleaner. Back this with non grid charging and battery banks to fit the daily needs of the user.
Not good for everyone but a lot of us only do short commutes. It isn't a final solution but would get many into it that cannot afford a Tesla.


My idea is taking the average person back to a stage where there is an element of self sufficiency in our lives, using what technology works in each region. Giving them ability to have power in the house even if the grid goes down, ability to keep the same car and computer a few years more via minor repairs and updates as needed. It's going to get junked eventually but meanwhile still less energy spent replacing a component than the entire.
Making.it plug and play user serviceable would be a bonus.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:09 PM   #37
Venom
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Genuinely interested in how this one reduces emissions?

Would think it would be the opposite
Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Especially if one replaces watching a movie at home, with traveling to another place to watch a movie there.

I've noticed a common theme among global warming deniers, that they think:

"You're using a computer so you lose the argument, so there." is some kind of gotcha.

Hopefully this isn't one of those...

I can tell you that computer use is a tiny blip on the electricity bill for me.

(Oh crap, I forgot to add the solar hot water system in my list)
https://theshiftproject.org/en/artic...-online-video/

Quote:
Digital technologies now emit 4% of greenhouse gas emissions (GHG), and its energy consumption is increasing by 9% a year. The Shift Project published in March 2019 the rapport “Lean ICT – Towards Digital Sobriety” (2019). In it we recommended making digital transition compatible with climate imperatives and the constraints of resources. Digital sobriety consists in prioritizing the allocation of resources as a function of uses, in order to conform to the planet’s physical boundaries, while preserving the most valuable societal contributions of digital technologies.

Last edited by Venom; 6th October 2019 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:15 PM   #38
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A big overlooked thing is simply not to buy new things, including electric/hybrid cars. The impact of new energy efficient goods are higher than maintaining older and less efficient jazz.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
A big overlooked thing is simply not to buy new things, including electric/hybrid cars. The impact of new energy efficient goods are higher than maintaining older and less efficient jazz.
My 2002 Toyota Camry has 205k miles on it. Not sure how long it can go.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
My 2002 Toyota Camry has 205k miles on it. Not sure how long it can go.
My last Ford van had 313K on it when I drove it to the junkyard with a good inspection sticker still in the window ( had to dump it quick for other reasons). My current has 207 and going strong. I don't believe I have had an oil change in 30+ years of driving
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