Dear Users... (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people) - Page 77

catsmate · 18th February 2021, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

If you are knowledgeable enough to solve the problems that the script-monkeys can solve yourself, the trick is getting past the script-monkeys to somebody that actually can solve your problem. With some companies, that is next to impossible.

I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly.

Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Yes. And given Eir's customer dissatisfaction rates it shows.

Generally I agree. I never did phone support in my twenty plus ~~tears~~ years in IT. But I've dealt with lots of people who did (one of whom finds the 999 control centre a relaxing change).
But I've got to experience to say to the script monkey that A, B, C, D, E, F and G don;t work, therefore the problem is I, J or K which are down to you. So escalate them beyond the appeasement level, and right now. I want to talk to the person who can fix the problem you have caused. And this morning I did that by talking over the script monkey until he escalated it, and repeated this until I spoke to person#4 who could actually see the relevant system and fixed the problem.

…snip…

Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to.

malbui · 18th February 2021, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

"Actually getting it working is not our problem".

Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected.

JoeMorgue · 18th February 2021, 11:28 AM

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

TragicMonkey · 18th February 2021, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

"I want all the groceries in one bag, but the bag shouldn't be heavy."

CORed · 18th February 2021, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget.

arthwollipot · 18th February 2021, 03:36 PM

A colleague just had one of those nightmare calls from someone who refused to follow established procedure, didn't understand instructions, and basically talked over her the whole time. She ended up terminating the call due to inappropriate language.

A developer, of course.

Norman Alexander · 18th February 2021, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

Does she own a drive-in theatre? Or a Cinemax?

Darn, ninja'd.

Norman Alexander · 18th February 2021, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly.

Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago.

I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.

That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds.

arthwollipot · 18th February 2021, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.

We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over.

Norman Alexander · 18th February 2021, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over.

I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes.

In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?"

arthwollipot · 18th February 2021, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes.

In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?"

We're not even allowed to give timeframes.

One to three business days is all we're allowed to say, because that's our SLA.

I've developed a patter for this, because I say it so many times a day.

"We endeavour to fulfil all requests within one to three business days. We can usually keep to that timeframe but please keep in mind that there is always the possibility of unavoidable delays due to factors beyond our control. The job has been escalated to the appropriate team, and they will get in contact with you as soon as they can."

That usually satisfies them.

Trebuchet · 18th February 2021, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds.

Them: unplug your router and wait 10 seconds.
Me: there's a battery in it.
Them: uhhhhh.....

novaphile · 18th February 2021, 09:53 PM

Apparently I'm Tier 3 support. (Only found this out last week)

That will make the systems integration that I work on much easier...

Mongrel · 19th February 2021, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget.

Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel.

zooterkin · 19th February 2021, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mongrel

Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel.

No, you missed this bit:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

Mongrel · 19th February 2021, 09:32 AM

You're right, sorry Joe

Wudang · 19th February 2021, 10:44 AM

One reason I love Zen (my ISP) support is I can tell them I'm an ex-unix and windows sysadmin but know nothing about broadband protocols and we're off and they're asking questions about my ipconfig etc.

A bit of UK slang : "talktalk" is UK slang for "************* ************ inbred braindead shower of useless wastes of ******* oxygen". Pretty efficient bandwidth saver.

alfaniner · 19th February 2021, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"

Easy-peasy! Just adjust the kerning and line spacing.

Of course, that would make it much more difficult to read. Then she'd get to say the classic "Well, it's what I asked for, but it's not what I want."

arthwollipot · 21st February 2021, 08:10 PM

They've got me doing VoIP again. I don't mind the routineness of the job - it gets me off the phones for most of the day - but I am forced once again to wrangle Cisco Unified CM Administration again.

catsmate · 22nd February 2021, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to.

Oddly they haven't really outsourced, they merely applied the same mistakes internally, with cost (and staff) cutting exacerbated by a cost-driven refusal to update internal IT systems (which won't work effectively over RAS) and an inability to cope with the boom in remote working.
If there is a mistake to be made Eir(com) will make it. And then double down.

A call that should be dealt wit in a minute or so stretches to twenty because the poor bastard on the line is literally waiting minutes for the systems to provide the needed information, or accept changes, over RAS. It's painful to listen to.

That said the sheer incompetence that managed to:
1. Cancel the customer's contract (leaving him without service) before the appropriate date and without the new one being in place.
2. Fail to process the new contract properly.
3. Fail to comprehend what was happening.
4. Fail to process the second new contract.
5. Fail to comprehend what was happening.
really needs to be dealt with by mass firings of managers. From a cannon.

I consider that extracting (around) €1,750 in bill concessions and €2,750 in new toys as a mild punishment for their stupidity.

catsmate · 22nd February 2021, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by malbui

Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected.

Ah the memories of my brief time working for Microsoft as a developer (remember "Windows NT5"?).
Followed by the memories of suing them.

catsmate · 22nd February 2021, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.

A reasonable policy, though for my own IT needs I can generally access L2/L3 directly. This however was a favour for a friend that should have been done in twenty minutes so I wasn't feeling patient. Also he ran out of coffee cake.

arthwollipot · 23rd February 2021, 08:29 PM

So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...

Filippo Lippi · 24th February 2021, 12:32 AM

"Why can't we load bad data on to your system it's causing us reconciliation errors?"

Norman Alexander · 24th February 2021, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...

So whose job are you going to be given to do as well as the one you do now? Because they can then stay at home most of the week, and when you stress out and make mistakes, they can deflect the blame to you.

See, that's how the PS game is played: Never be in the same room as a decision, and always know who to blame.

ETA:

HHellpop · 24th February 2021, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...

Maybe on the heels of a positive review, you should ask to not do VoIP.

ETA: Congrats! Perseverance in the face of user-borne adversity!

HHellpop · 24th February 2021, 06:05 AM

Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down.

One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time.

"But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that."

"I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him.

Dr. Keith · 24th February 2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by HHellpop

Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down.

One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time.

"But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that."

"I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him.

Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.

TragicMonkey · 24th February 2021, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.

Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy.

HHellpop · 24th February 2021, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.

Well, they asked for full coverage, so the only thing I could think of was putting all those antennae on the roof! And what is this "lunch" thing you speak of?

HHellpop · 24th February 2021, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy.

I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short!

TragicMonkey · 24th February 2021, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by HHellpop

I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short!

Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens.

malbui · 24th February 2021, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens.

I'll get my people to talk to your people to put something in our diaries.

arthwollipot · 24th February 2021, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by HHellpop

Maybe on the heels of a positive review, you should ask to not do VoIP.

I'm actually not minding VoIP. I'm getting the hang of the routine stuff, so I can knock that out easily, and it has the occasional puzzler that I need to work out. It's cool. The tool sucks, but I've learned to drive it for the most part.

HHellpop · Yesterday, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I'm actually not minding VoIP. I'm getting the hang of the routine stuff, so I can knock that out easily, and it has the occasional puzzler that I need to work out. It's cool. The tool sucks, but I've learned to drive it for the most part.

It's done, then. You have been assimilated! Welcome to the VoIP Collective!

Norman Alexander · Yesterday, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by malbui

I'll get my people to talk to your people to put something in our diaries.

My diary is Google and it is offline. Seems someone's wifi is interfering with the cell coverage. Let me chase it down first, then we can sync diaries or do Zoom or something.

Damn, have I always been a cat?

18th February 2021, 09:21 AM	#3041
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,814	Originally Posted by CORed If you are knowledgeable enough to solve the problems that the script-monkeys can solve yourself, the trick is getting past the script-monkeys to somebody that actually can solve your problem. With some companies, that is next to impossible. I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly. Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th February 2021, 10:23 AM	#3042
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,869	Originally Posted by catsmate Yes. And given Eir's customer dissatisfaction rates it shows. Generally I agree. I never did phone support in my twenty plus ~~tears~~ years in IT. But I've dealt with lots of people who did (one of whom finds the 999 control centre a relaxing change). But I've got to experience to say to the script monkey that A, B, C, D, E, F and G don;t work, therefore the problem is I, J or K which are down to you. So escalate them beyond the appeasement level, and right now. I want to talk to the person who can fix the problem you have caused. And this morning I did that by talking over the script monkey until he escalated it, and repeated this until I spoke to person#4 who could actually see the relevant system and fixed the problem. …snip… Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

18th February 2021, 11:22 AM	#3043
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,772	Originally Posted by catsmate "Actually getting it working is not our problem". Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected.
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,772	__________________ "But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?"

18th February 2021, 11:28 AM	#3044
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,602	Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

18th February 2021, 11:34 AM	#3045
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,436	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?" "I want all the groceries in one bag, but the bag shouldn't be heavy."
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

18th February 2021, 12:44 PM	#3046
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,079	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?" That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget.

18th February 2021, 03:36 PM	#3047
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	A colleague just had one of those nightmare calls from someone who refused to follow established procedure, didn't understand instructions, and basically talked over her the whole time. She ended up terminating the call due to inappropriate language. A developer, of course.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart. Last edited by arthwollipot; 18th February 2021 at 03:38 PM.

18th February 2021, 03:42 PM	#3048
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?" Does she own a drive-in theatre? Or a Cinemax? Darn, ninja'd.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th February 2021, 03:48 PM	#3049
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Originally Posted by catsmate I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly. Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago. I'm more patient. But not always compliant. As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place. Hey, it passes the time.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th February 2021, 03:52 PM	#3050
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,869	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm more patient. But not always compliant. As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place. Hey, it passes the time. That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

18th February 2021, 03:53 PM	#3051
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm more patient. But not always compliant. As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place. Hey, it passes the time. We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

18th February 2021, 06:16 PM	#3052
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Originally Posted by arthwollipot We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over. I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes. In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?"
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th February 2021, 06:23 PM	#3053
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes. In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?" We're not even allowed to give timeframes. One to three business days is all we're allowed to say, because that's our SLA. I've developed a patter for this, because I say it so many times a day. "We endeavour to fulfil all requests within one to three business days. We can usually keep to that timeframe but please keep in mind that there is always the possibility of unavoidable delays due to factors beyond our control. The job has been escalated to the appropriate team, and they will get in contact with you as soon as they can." That usually satisfies them.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

18th February 2021, 09:27 PM	#3054
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,991	Originally Posted by Darat That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds. Them: unplug your router and wait 10 seconds. Me: there's a battery in it. Them: uhhhhh.....
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

18th February 2021, 09:53 PM	#3055
novaphile Quester of Doglets Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 2,938	Apparently I'm Tier 3 support. (Only found this out last week) That will make the systems integration that I work on much easier...
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

19th February 2021, 03:14 AM	#3056
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future Posts: 2,037	Originally Posted by CORed That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget. Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel.
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

19th February 2021, 03:46 AM	#3057
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,376	Originally Posted by Mongrel Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel. No, you missed this bit: Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

19th February 2021, 09:32 AM	#3058
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future Posts: 2,037	You're right, sorry Joe
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

19th February 2021, 10:44 AM	#3059
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 13,468	One reason I love Zen (my ISP) support is I can tell them I'm an ex-unix and windows sysadmin but know nothing about broadband protocols and we're off and they're asking questions about my ipconfig etc. A bit of UK slang : "talktalk" is UK slang for "*********** ******** inbred braindead shower of useless wastes of ***** oxygen". Pretty efficient bandwidth saver.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott. Last edited by zooterkin; 22nd February 2021 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Rule 10

19th February 2021, 11:13 AM	#3060
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 24,849	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Sighs I'm there again. "I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?" Easy-peasy! Just adjust the kerning and line spacing. Of course, that would make it much more difficult to read. Then she'd get to say the classic "Well, it's what I asked for, but it's not what I want."
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

21st February 2021, 08:10 PM	#3061
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	They've got me doing VoIP again. I don't mind the routineness of the job - it gets me off the phones for most of the day - but I am forced once again to wrangle Cisco Unified CM Administration again.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

22nd February 2021, 02:16 AM	#3062
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,814	Originally Posted by Darat Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to. Oddly they haven't really outsourced, they merely applied the same mistakes internally, with cost (and staff) cutting exacerbated by a cost-driven refusal to update internal IT systems (which won't work effectively over RAS) and an inability to cope with the boom in remote working. If there is a mistake to be made Eir(com) will make it. And then double down. A call that should be dealt wit in a minute or so stretches to twenty because the poor bastard on the line is literally waiting minutes for the systems to provide the needed information, or accept changes, over RAS. It's painful to listen to. That said the sheer incompetence that managed to: 1. Cancel the customer's contract (leaving him without service) before the appropriate date and without the new one being in place. 2. Fail to process the new contract properly. 3. Fail to comprehend what was happening. 4. Fail to process the second new contract. 5. Fail to comprehend what was happening. really needs to be dealt with by mass firings of managers. From a cannon. I consider that extracting (around) €1,750 in bill concessions and €2,750 in new toys as a mild punishment for their stupidity.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd February 2021, 02:17 AM	#3063
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,814	Originally Posted by malbui Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected. Ah the memories of my brief time working for Microsoft as a developer (remember "Windows NT5"?). Followed by the memories of suing them.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd February 2021, 02:20 AM	#3064
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,814	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm more patient. But not always compliant. As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place. Hey, it passes the time. A reasonable policy, though for my own IT needs I can generally access L2/L3 directly. This however was a favour for a friend that should have been done in twenty minutes so I wasn't feeling patient. Also he ran out of coffee cake.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

23rd February 2021, 08:29 PM	#3065
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it. I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and... ...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training). And I'm like Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

24th February 2021, 12:32 AM	#3066
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,351	"Why can't we load bad data on to your system it's causing us reconciliation errors?"
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

24th February 2021, 02:07 AM	#3067
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Originally Posted by arthwollipot So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it. I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and... ...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training). And I'm like Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya. So whose job are you going to be given to do as well as the one you do now? Because they can then stay at home most of the week, and when you stress out and make mistakes, they can deflect the blame to you. See, that's how the PS game is played: Never be in the same room as a decision, and always know who to blame. ETA:
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

24th February 2021, 05:42 AM	#3068
HHellpop Reluctant Galactic Assassin Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ylum Posts: 358	Originally Posted by arthwollipot So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it. I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and... ...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training). And I'm like Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya. Maybe on the heels of a positive review, you should ask to not do VoIP. ETA: Congrats! Perseverance in the face of user-borne adversity!
	__________________ "Vootie!" - Mezzrow Last edited by HHellpop; 24th February 2021 at 05:43 AM.

24th February 2021, 06:05 AM	#3069
HHellpop Reluctant Galactic Assassin Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ylum Posts: 358	Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down. One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time. "But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that." "I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him.
	__________________ "Vootie!" - Mezzrow

24th February 2021, 08:50 AM	#3070
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,449	Originally Posted by HHellpop Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down. One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time. "But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that." "I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him. Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

24th February 2021, 10:35 AM	#3071
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,436	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish. Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

24th February 2021, 11:18 AM	#3072
HHellpop Reluctant Galactic Assassin Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ylum Posts: 358	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish. Well, they asked for full coverage, so the only thing I could think of was putting all those antennae on the roof! And what is this "lunch" thing you speak of?
	__________________ "Vootie!" - Mezzrow

24th February 2021, 11:20 AM	#3073
HHellpop Reluctant Galactic Assassin Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ylum Posts: 358	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy. I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short!
	__________________ "Vootie!" - Mezzrow

24th February 2021, 12:15 PM	#3074
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,436	Originally Posted by HHellpop I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short! Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

24th February 2021, 12:34 PM	#3075
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,772	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens. I'll get my people to talk to your people to put something in our diaries.
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,772	__________________ "But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?"