[Continuation] The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 3 - Page 27

marting · 23rd February 2021, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

So many contradictory studies...
The conundrum continues.

And some things just can't be double blinded. Like mask efficacy. Observational only.

marting · 23rd February 2021, 03:55 PM

Very high, 60,000IUs daily for 8-10 days, doses of Vit. D. produced significant decreases in a large range of inflammatory markers.

https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...manuscript.pdf

marting · 24th February 2021, 01:25 PM

Efficacy and safety of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine in patients with severe COVID-19. A randomized controlled trial

https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...a3592939f0c7d0

Small double blind RCT study shows no benefit from either.

The Atheist · 24th February 2021, 02:47 PM

Ok, ladies, gentlemen, and non-binary people, put your bets on the NZ Covid Roulette!

We currently have a handful of cases - they're up to "I", so I'm picking there are 9 so far.

One case worked a shift at a McDonald's, another worked two shifts at a large department store, three were attending a high school. They are all infected with the UK strain.

Of people who may have been exposed, the earliest positive test they can do is tomorrow, so it would be fairly sensible to just tone down the mass events this weekend. Auckland - where all the cases are - has three events on the weekend that will attract crowds of 20,000+ people. (the fact that many Aucklanders will be attending other events nationwide is hardly worth mentioning)

Accordingly, we are about to play Covid roulette. There is a chance that several cases will be out and about at these events, potentially causing a superspreader event. Or even several.

We've been very lucky to date, but taking this risk is a step too far for my liking, and the liking of our top microbiologist: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...1-expert-warns

I'll be keeping a very close eye on the data, but Aussie has already seen the light and shut the quarantine-free travel door.

The Atheist · 24th February 2021, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by marting

Very high, 60,000IUs daily for 8-10 days, doses of Vit. D. produced significant decreases in a large range of inflammatory markers.

https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...manuscript.pdf

Small study, but compelling, especially when you add it to the Spanish study. The protocols and methods appear very sound, and really does call for a major study asap.

I think it's very near to case closed on the treatment. We should be doing it as standard.

I know my D levels are high as hell, spending hours a day in the sun. Helluva tan, too!

arthwollipot · 24th February 2021, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Ok, ladies, gentlemen, and non-binary people, put your bets on the NZ Covid Roulette!

You've got this. New Zealand has been one of the best, if not the best, countries in the world at containing this. You know how to handle it. You're going to be fine.

And when this is all over and travel is normalised, I'll come over and visit. That's a promise.

The Atheist · 24th February 2021, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

You've got this. New Zealand has been one of the best, if not the best, countries in the world at containing this. You know how to handle it. You're going to be fine.

That's the official position. If it were true, I doubt the experts would be so concerned.

Overall, we'll be fine, because we'll shut down any outbreak, but we could have ensured there wasn't one by not betting the weekend turns out ok.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

And when this is all over and travel is normalised, I'll come over and visit. That's a promise.

Good on ya - I'll buy you a coffee, or whatever tipple you're on then.

The Atheist · 24th February 2021, 05:30 PM

Meanwhile, in Tanzania...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ess-conference

Yeah, he's fine.

Blue Mountain · 24th February 2021, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Meanwhile, in Tanzania...

Condemnation as coughing Tanzanian minister gives news conference [Aljazeera]

Video of Finance Minister Philip Mpango, maskless and in a coughing fit, has been widely condemned.

Yeah, he's fine.

FTFY.

zooterkin · Yesterday, 02:48 PM

Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19. Long covid seems to have some similarities with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (aka ME, or, more disparagingly, yuppie flu). People get exhausted by doing what were previously activities they achieved easily. That looks as though it will give legitimacy to CFS sufferers (many GPs have dismissed it as not a real disease), and extra research may find a cure, or at the least a better understanding of it, if it is similar to long Covid. The suspicion is that it may be something affecting the mitochondria in the cells.

The people most often affected by long Covid seem to be those who were fit and not badly affected, and who resumed their normal levels of activity quickly. The recommendation now is to take things easy if you're infected, even if you don't feel too bad.

Rolfe · Yesterday, 02:56 PM

My GP friend tried to tell that to her daughter, a nurse who caught covid at work. Oh no, she was determined to go right back and do a double shift. She seems to have got away with it.

The Atheist · Yesterday, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19.

I'm picking that's related to this: https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news...al-impacts-who

With the potential numbers growing quickly, this is going to be a problem for a lot of years, given the ages of the afflicted.

Puppycow · Today, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Meanwhile, in Tanzania...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ess-conference

Yeah, he's fine.

Quote:

Days after President John Mafuguli finally admitted Tanzania has a coronavirus problem, after months of apparent denial and increasing warnings of a resurgence in infections, the sight of the country’s finance minister coughing and gasping during a news conference to defend the state of his health has left many in shock.

Yeah, I mentioned what's happening there in another thread. Astounding.

Tanzania’s president admits country has COVID-19 problem

Quote:

The president of Tanzania has urged its citizens to take preventive measures against the coronavirus after downplaying the disease for months and claiming it had been defeated by prayers.

What, prayers don't work against viruses? Maybe they didn't pray hard enough or with the right rituals or to the right deity?

The Atheist · Today, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

What, prayers don't work against viruses? Maybe they didn't pray hard enough or with the right rituals or to the right deity?

Jesus, things must be pretty bad if he's changed his mind. I'd say the SA variant has arrived there, because the death of three Members of Parliament didn't move him about 9 months ago.

marting · Today, 05:15 PM

In the USA Covid-19 cases declined nicely from Jan until about a week ago. People were starting to shout "Herd Immunity" in a redux of similar refrains from last summer. Then they stabilized and have even gone up slightly. Same with deaths. Interestingly, NY deaths and cases hadn't declined as much as most other states in spite of being a leading state with the most deaths where herd immunity should be a big factor.

Recent studies indicate a new variant that has increased in NY from 1% in Dec. to 5% in Jan. to over 20% in Feb. Not good.

The Atheist · Today, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by marting

In the USA Covid-19 cases declined nicely from Jan until about a week ago. People were starting to shout "Herd Immunity" in a redux of similar refrains from last summer. Then they stabilized and have even gone up slightly. Same with deaths. Interestingly, NY deaths and cases hadn't declined as much as most other states in spite of being a leading state with the most deaths where herd immunity should be a big factor.

Recent studies indicate a new variant that has increased in NY from 1% in Dec. to 5% in Jan. to over 20% in Feb. Not good.

Yeah, I've just started seeing a few worried noises from experts.

Hopefully, most vulnerable people will have been vaccinated before it breaks out again.

Orphia Nay · Today, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19. Long covid seems to have some similarities with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (aka ME, or, more disparagingly, yuppie flu). People get exhausted by doing what were previously activities they achieved easily. That looks as though it will give legitimacy to CFS sufferers (many GPs have dismissed it as not a real disease), and extra research may find a cure, or at the least a better understanding of it, if it is similar to long Covid. The suspicion is that it may be something affecting the mitochondria in the cells.

The people most often affected by long Covid seem to be those who were fit and not badly affected, and who resumed their normal levels of activity quickly. The recommendation now is to take things easy if you're infected, even if you don't feel too bad.

Seems relevant to me.

I can't run like I used to, and after having Covid in March 2020, I resumed running as before, and my abilities and energy have just dwindled and dwindled.

I've had my blood tested numerous times, and after sorting out iron, D, and zinc deficiencies, I'm still tired, and we can't get my sodium up.

Orphia Nay · Today, 07:48 PM

Major rise in public support for COVID vaccine – Oxford study

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-24...e-oxford-study

"More than three quarters of people in the UK now say they are ’very likely’ to have the vaccine – up from 50% among the same group of survey respondents five months ago –according to a two-wave Oxford University survey published today [February 24, 2021]."

The study:

https://rpubs.com/benwansell/729135

Orphia Nay · Today, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I think we might have to re-consider the "Covid came from outer space" idea, because even with the new cluster contained in Auckland (and all restrictions lifted) the health ministry has no idea how the infection started.

No intermediate cases have been found and genomic testing shows no relationship to any virus identified here since December, which can't be where it came from.

Yet again, we're left with an unknown fomite transmission.

Maybe the virus has been in the population, but only giving mild or asymptomatic cases and then these new cases are more serious enough to be noticed.

For example, transmitted from family member to family members with tendencies to just be asymptomatic, or healthy community groups such as sporting clubs who have mild or no symptoms.

Just wondering.

The Atheist · Today, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Maybe the virus has been in the population, but only giving mild or asymptomatic cases and then these new cases are more serious enough to be noticed.

For example, transmitted from family member to family members with tendencies to just be asymptomatic, or healthy community groups such as sporting clubs who have mild or no symptoms.

Just wondering.

Possible, but unlikely.

We're finally testing sewage and it's clear at the moment, so if there are other cases, they're one or two.

It's all quite bizarre, although the fact that it's stinking hot might be helping.

23rd February 2021, 03:43 PM	#1041
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	Originally Posted by The Atheist So many contradictory studies... The conundrum continues. And some things just can't be double blinded. Like mask efficacy. Observational only.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

23rd February 2021, 03:55 PM	#1042
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	Very high, 60,000IUs daily for 8-10 days, doses of Vit. D. produced significant decreases in a large range of inflammatory markers. https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...manuscript.pdf
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

24th February 2021, 01:25 PM	#1043
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	Efficacy and safety of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine in patients with severe COVID-19. A randomized controlled trial https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...a3592939f0c7d0 Small double blind RCT study shows no benefit from either.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

24th February 2021, 02:47 PM	#1044
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Ok, ladies, gentlemen, and non-binary people, put your bets on the NZ Covid Roulette! We currently have a handful of cases - they're up to "I", so I'm picking there are 9 so far. One case worked a shift at a McDonald's, another worked two shifts at a large department store, three were attending a high school. They are all infected with the UK strain. Of people who may have been exposed, the earliest positive test they can do is tomorrow, so it would be fairly sensible to just tone down the mass events this weekend. Auckland - where all the cases are - has three events on the weekend that will attract crowds of 20,000+ people. (the fact that many Aucklanders will be attending other events nationwide is hardly worth mentioning) Accordingly, we are about to play Covid roulette. There is a chance that several cases will be out and about at these events, potentially causing a superspreader event. Or even several. We've been very lucky to date, but taking this risk is a step too far for my liking, and the liking of our top microbiologist: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...1-expert-warns I'll be keeping a very close eye on the data, but Aussie has already seen the light and shut the quarantine-free travel door.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

24th February 2021, 02:54 PM	#1045
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by marting Very high, 60,000IUs daily for 8-10 days, doses of Vit. D. produced significant decreases in a large range of inflammatory markers. https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...manuscript.pdf Small study, but compelling, especially when you add it to the Spanish study. The protocols and methods appear very sound, and really does call for a major study asap. I think it's very near to case closed on the treatment. We should be doing it as standard. I know my D levels are high as hell, spending hours a day in the sun. Helluva tan, too!
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

24th February 2021, 02:57 PM	#1046
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,248	Originally Posted by The Atheist Ok, ladies, gentlemen, and non-binary people, put your bets on the NZ Covid Roulette! You've got this. New Zealand has been one of the best, if not the best, countries in the world at containing this. You know how to handle it. You're going to be fine. And when this is all over and travel is normalised, I'll come over and visit. That's a promise.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

24th February 2021, 04:37 PM	#1047
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by arthwollipot You've got this. New Zealand has been one of the best, if not the best, countries in the world at containing this. You know how to handle it. You're going to be fine. That's the official position. If it were true, I doubt the experts would be so concerned. Overall, we'll be fine, because we'll shut down any outbreak, but we could have ensured there wasn't one by not betting the weekend turns out ok. Originally Posted by arthwollipot And when this is all over and travel is normalised, I'll come over and visit. That's a promise. Good on ya - I'll buy you a coffee, or whatever tipple you're on then.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

24th February 2021, 05:30 PM	#1048
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Meanwhile, in Tanzania... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ess-conference Yeah, he's fine.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

24th February 2021, 09:21 PM	#1049
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 6,453	Originally Posted by The Atheist Meanwhile, in Tanzania... Condemnation as coughing Tanzanian minister gives news conference [Aljazeera] Video of Finance Minister Philip Mpango, maskless and in a coughing fit, has been widely condemned. Yeah, he's fine. FTFY.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.

Yesterday, 02:48 PM	#1050
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,376	Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19. Long covid seems to have some similarities with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (aka ME, or, more disparagingly, yuppie flu). People get exhausted by doing what were previously activities they achieved easily. That looks as though it will give legitimacy to CFS sufferers (many GPs have dismissed it as not a real disease), and extra research may find a cure, or at the least a better understanding of it, if it is similar to long Covid. The suspicion is that it may be something affecting the mitochondria in the cells. The people most often affected by long Covid seem to be those who were fit and not badly affected, and who resumed their normal levels of activity quickly. The recommendation now is to take things easy if you're infected, even if you don't feel too bad.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

Yesterday, 02:56 PM	#1051
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 46,896	My GP friend tried to tell that to her daughter, a nurse who caught covid at work. Oh no, she was determined to go right back and do a double shift. She seems to have got away with it.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

Yesterday, 03:03 PM	#1052
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by zooterkin Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19. I'm picking that's related to this: https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news...al-impacts-who With the potential numbers growing quickly, this is going to be a problem for a lot of years, given the ages of the afflicted.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

Today, 12:17 AM	#1053
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,727	Originally Posted by The Atheist Meanwhile, in Tanzania... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ess-conference Yeah, he's fine. Quote: Days after President John Mafuguli finally admitted Tanzania has a coronavirus problem, after months of apparent denial and increasing warnings of a resurgence in infections, the sight of the country’s finance minister coughing and gasping during a news conference to defend the state of his health has left many in shock. Yeah, I mentioned what's happening there in another thread. Astounding. Tanzania’s president admits country has COVID-19 problem Quote: The president of Tanzania has urged its citizens to take preventive measures against the coronavirus after downplaying the disease for months and claiming it had been defeated by prayers. What, prayers don't work against viruses? Maybe they didn't pray hard enough or with the right rituals or to the right deity?
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

Today, 03:57 PM	#1054
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by Puppycow What, prayers don't work against viruses? Maybe they didn't pray hard enough or with the right rituals or to the right deity? Jesus, things must be pretty bad if he's changed his mind. I'd say the SA variant has arrived there, because the death of three Members of Parliament didn't move him about 9 months ago.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

Today, 05:15 PM	#1055
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	In the USA Covid-19 cases declined nicely from Jan until about a week ago. People were starting to shout "Herd Immunity" in a redux of similar refrains from last summer. Then they stabilized and have even gone up slightly. Same with deaths. Interestingly, NY deaths and cases hadn't declined as much as most other states in spite of being a leading state with the most deaths where herd immunity should be a big factor. Recent studies indicate a new variant that has increased in NY from 1% in Dec. to 5% in Jan. to over 20% in Feb. Not good.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,130	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

Today, 06:19 PM	#1056
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by marting In the USA Covid-19 cases declined nicely from Jan until about a week ago. People were starting to shout "Herd Immunity" in a redux of similar refrains from last summer. Then they stabilized and have even gone up slightly. Same with deaths. Interestingly, NY deaths and cases hadn't declined as much as most other states in spite of being a leading state with the most deaths where herd immunity should be a big factor. Recent studies indicate a new variant that has increased in NY from 1% in Dec. to 5% in Jan. to over 20% in Feb. Not good. Yeah, I've just started seeing a few worried noises from experts. Hopefully, most vulnerable people will have been vaccinated before it breaks out again.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

Today, 07:46 PM	#1057
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,721	Originally Posted by zooterkin Just caught the end of a TV special on Covid-19. Long covid seems to have some similarities with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (aka ME, or, more disparagingly, yuppie flu). People get exhausted by doing what were previously activities they achieved easily. That looks as though it will give legitimacy to CFS sufferers (many GPs have dismissed it as not a real disease), and extra research may find a cure, or at the least a better understanding of it, if it is similar to long Covid. The suspicion is that it may be something affecting the mitochondria in the cells. The people most often affected by long Covid seem to be those who were fit and not badly affected, and who resumed their normal levels of activity quickly. The recommendation now is to take things easy if you're infected, even if you don't feel too bad. Seems relevant to me. I can't run like I used to, and after having Covid in March 2020, I resumed running as before, and my abilities and energy have just dwindled and dwindled. I've had my blood tested numerous times, and after sorting out iron, D, and zinc deficiencies, I'm still tired, and we can't get my sodium up.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

Today, 07:48 PM	#1058
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,721	Major rise in public support for COVID vaccine – Oxford study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-24...e-oxford-study "More than three quarters of people in the UK now say they are ’very likely’ to have the vaccine – up from 50% among the same group of survey respondents five months ago –according to a two-wave Oxford University survey published today [February 24, 2021]." The study: https://rpubs.com/benwansell/729135
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

Today, 10:04 PM	#1059
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,721	Originally Posted by The Atheist I think we might have to re-consider the "Covid came from outer space" idea, because even with the new cluster contained in Auckland (and all restrictions lifted) the health ministry has no idea how the infection started. No intermediate cases have been found and genomic testing shows no relationship to any virus identified here since December, which can't be where it came from. Yet again, we're left with an unknown fomite transmission. Maybe the virus has been in the population, but only giving mild or asymptomatic cases and then these new cases are more serious enough to be noticed. For example, transmitted from family member to family members with tendencies to just be asymptomatic, or healthy community groups such as sporting clubs who have mild or no symptoms. Just wondering.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

Today, 11:10 PM	#1060
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,248	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay Maybe the virus has been in the population, but only giving mild or asymptomatic cases and then these new cases are more serious enough to be noticed. For example, transmitted from family member to family members with tendencies to just be asymptomatic, or healthy community groups such as sporting clubs who have mild or no symptoms. Just wondering. Possible, but unlikely. We're finally testing sewage and it's clear at the moment, so if there are other cases, they're one or two. It's all quite bizarre, although the fact that it's stinking hot might be helping.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.