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30th October 2019, 08:59 AM | #201 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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30th October 2019, 09:28 AM | #202 |
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30th October 2019, 09:38 AM | #203 |
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30th October 2019, 10:02 AM | #204 |
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So in the interests of fairness, can you tell us which Republicans are currently actively opposing Trump; actively opposing the influence of the Koch Brothers, Jeff Bezos, ALEC legislation, and various other big-money PACs and oligarchs; actively opposing massive tax breaks and refunds for the superwealthy and megacorps, while maintaining high taxes on the working and middle class; actively opposing attempts to dismantle the Affordable Care Act and Social Security; actively opposing legalized discrimination via "religious freedom" legislation; actively opposing private, for-profit prisons, for-profit healthcare, and for-profit education; actively opposed rolling back environmental and consumer protection legislation; and actively opposing the growing power of the Christian Evangelical/Dominionist lobby in the party? Some members of the GOP may not be actively evil -- like, for example, the flagrant racist oligarch toady Mitch McConnell -- but passive evil is just as devastating in the long term as active evil. I'm definitely not seeing an active opposition to the active evil in the GOP. For example, the GOP's efforts to roll back the ACA. The party split, but not between evil vs. not-evil; but between evil vs. more-evil. One half of the party wanted to roll back the ACA and reduce healthcare availability by going to a replacement which was a purely for-profit system, and the other half wanted to roll back the ACA, and then discuss whether to set up a replacement system, depriving millions of Americans of any healthcare at all in the meantime. That's been the way with every other vote, whether it's taxes, SSA, economic stimulus, whatever. And that's not even getting into the problems of judiciary appointments being effectively unanimously confirmed despite glaring problems with their records. Even if they're not all theocrats or yearning for a return to slavery/feudalism; the few that aren't are not putting up much of a fight against the majority who clearly are. |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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30th October 2019, 10:15 AM | #205 |
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30th October 2019, 10:29 AM | #206 |
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This would be like me saying Democrats are evil because they want to rob the rich to give free stuff to everyone else. IOW, you don’t like their politics so you frame it as evil. I’ve been guilty of the same in the past and what’s funny is that it was my interactions with people here that caused me to see things differently.
Too many here want to stifle that kind of beneficial interchange. You want to talk about posters without talking to posters. That strikes me as more divisive and destructive than the alternative. |
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Hello. |
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30th October 2019, 10:34 AM | #207 |
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Yep and not all nazis really wanted to exterminate the jews, they liked the return to national prestige and power, so it is not fair to so demonize all nazis.
Nope, doesn't wash. Why do republicans get a pass for the policies of their party but not nazis? I mean sure they might not be for it, like not everyone who voted for trump is a racist, but they are all fine voting for one. Same thing applies here. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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30th October 2019, 01:52 PM | #208 |
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I guess there's a big difference. Genocide was an actual policy of the Nazi regime. They actually implemented that policy. They really did genocide the heck out of some folk. It was neither hyperbole nor metaphor.
The GOP has not announced plans for a literal theocracy or return to slavery. I mean, I have been busy so I could have missed it, but I don't think so. I'm talking a literal theocracy, not a government that has a strong bias towards Christianity and even attempts a Muslim ban, both really bad things but not, you know, theocracy. Not really. So, when the Republican announce their intent to install a literal theocracy or go back to the fine ol' days of slavery, I'm totally with you. Until then, your post is just more useless exaggeration. |
30th October 2019, 02:07 PM | #209 |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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31st October 2019, 12:57 AM | #210 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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31st October 2019, 03:12 AM | #211 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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31st October 2019, 03:30 AM | #212 |
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31st October 2019, 04:46 AM | #213 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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31st October 2019, 06:07 AM | #214 |
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But you can not take them at their word over who they are. It is like there is nothing deploarable about voting for an open racist, or sexual predator. Calling such things depolrable or immoral or even just pointing out that because they voted for a white supremacist they voted for a white supremacist is right out. That is all poisoning the well and portraying the party as evil even if it is all factually correct.
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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31st October 2019, 06:42 AM | #215 |
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But they also didn't advertise that policy. They actually went out of their way to hide what they were really doing from the general population. It was all "labor camps" and "deportation to Palestine" and "resettlement in the East", anything to give a figleaf of cover to what they were really doing. |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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31st October 2019, 06:50 AM | #216 |
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31st October 2019, 06:50 AM | #217 |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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31st October 2019, 08:02 AM | #218 |
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31st October 2019, 09:37 AM | #219 |
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Smoke and mirrors. Trump has been actively disparaging and complaining about Bezos because of ostensible political differences, and because Bezos owns a newspaper which is highly critical of Trump. But what policies or legislation have Trump or the GOP enacted to oppose Bezos, which have had any kind of negative impact on Bezos' wealth or power? None. While at the same time giving huge tax breaks to billionaires like Bezos, further cementing the political power of the super-wealthy. |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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31st October 2019, 07:33 PM | #220 |
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In partial answer to your highlighted question:
Donald Trump is not the ideological creature you imagine him to be. Trump's policies favor the super-wealthy because Trump is a super-wealthy narcissist who is out for himself, not because he cares about "cementing the political power of the super-wealthy" in general. Jeff Bezos is just one example of a super-wealthy person whose political power Trump has opposed. There are other examples; a list of such examples would correlate quite well with a list of wealthy persons who have criticized Trump. |
1st November 2019, 05:07 AM | #221 |
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Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
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1st November 2019, 08:58 AM | #222 |
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Okay, I stand corrected on that, there has been some pushback against Amazon; but so far Trump hasn't hurt Amazon and Bezos directly nearly as much as he's helped them indirectly with all the tax breaks and pro-corporate legislation. But I don't expect Trump to be smart enough to recognize that. And the pushback is clearly due to personality conflict, rather than principles. |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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1st November 2019, 01:46 PM | #223 |
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There was that whole $10 billion cloud computing contract for the Pentagon. Sally Donnelly, one of the people involved in the contract award process, ran a company which Amazon was paying for consulting services. The contract was written in a way so that only Amazon would be able to meet the requirements. The Trump administration put the brakes on that, opened up the contract specifications, and now Microsoft won the bid.
Losing a $10 billion contract is a significant hit, even to a company like Amazon. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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