|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
1st November 2008, 10:54 AM | #1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,854
|
The largest, most dangerous voting block...
The biggest, most influential, and most unpredictable of all voter blocks remains poorly understood by either party, and almost unreported in the press.
No, I'm not talking about the AARP or the NRA. It's not any women's group or gay rights movement. Not African-Americans, Cubans, not even the all-powerful and all-knowing Jews. It's bigger than Union Labor, more diverse than the American Independent party, and found in every state, age group, and economic bracket. It is rarely tackled directly, but every politician and every reporter knows about it. In an almost sinister fashion, they leave vague hints and references to this unfathomable power. Nixon brazenly invoked it as "The Silent Majority." The modern euphemism of choice, clearly influenced by political correctness, seems to be the "Low Information Voter." Some have suggested that "Joe the Plumber" and even "Hockey Mom" are coded references to this group. But you all know who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Moron Block. There is no more potentially destructive force, and none more long-lasting, than the influence of morons. Plato, in The Republic, argued passionately that governance should be left to philosophers, and even though he agonized over the potential for corruption, found this form of government superior to a true democracy -- a government beholden to morons. Yet morons are a natural force, as old as humankind. As any statistician will verify, almost 50% of the people in any generation will be of below average intelligence. There are clear signs of the moron effect in the present election. Some columnists have stated unequivocally that the outcome of this election is already not in doubt, save only the last-minute and concentrated caprice of morons. Other reporters, so badgered by morons, have diverged into a meta-argument of the stupid things morons clamor to hear more of:
Originally Posted by Ben Smith @ Politico.com
But since this force is so strong, and so ingrained into human nature, surely both campaigns are aware of and actively trying to take advantage of it. Thus, the question: How? Which campaign has pandered more to the moron movement? In the article above, Ben Smith notes that the moron demands seem to back the Republican candidate by about 20 to 1. However, there is no reason to suspect this is not artifactual rather than political -- those begging for a scandal may be simply supporting the underdog, and had McCain been leading in the polls, it is reasonable to assume this behavior would be reversed. There is a colorable case for both Republicans and Democrats intentionally energizing the moron base, though the strategies are different. The Democrats traditionally court morons through registration drives, both legitimate and sketchy, focusing on people who for whatever reason cannot figure out how to register or otherwise couldn't be bothered. Republicans, in contrast, take a more direct approach, using charged rhetoric such as "elitism" and offers the unwashed an opportunity to earn a gold sticker of acceptance in his "real America." The Democrats promise a renormalization of wealth -- in moron terms, taking money from the smart rich people and giving it to us. The Republicans retaliate with boogeyman stories about how this is "socialist." Both memes appear to have traction. Both positions can be argued intelligently, but rarely are. But who is the worse offender? Whose pleas for the moron vote are more effective? And who do we blame if the election winds up being decided by morons? I welcome your thoughts, regardless of your own party affiliation, voting tendencies, and personal bias. Don't be a moron. Educate yourself. Encourage each and every candidate to elevate the discussion, give straight answers, and deal with real issues. When both parties run a smart campaign, everybody wins. Even morons. |
1st November 2008, 11:18 AM | #2 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,490
|
Aasif Mandvi touched on this voting block quite well on a recent Daily Show.
http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/...lly-exclusive/ |
__________________
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing. Henry David Thoreau |
|
1st November 2008, 01:47 PM | #3 |
Guest
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,998
|
I would think that appeals to fear and appeals to emotion would be more effective with the moron block than appeals to logic. Thus Obama may do better running for reelection than he does this year. The "Obama will take away my guns" appeal should be less effective if he's been in power for 4 years and hasn't.
|
1st November 2008, 01:58 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
|
I am hopeful that the "Moron Block" will be counter balanced by (A) the African American Block, and (B) the Youth Block.
You are right, though Mackey, the "Moron Block" really is the unknown variable...only Tuesday will tell. TAM |
1st November 2008, 03:45 PM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
|
The way McCain is campaigning, the Moron Block may be his only hope of even keeping his Senate seat when this is all over.
I figured he had a pretty good lock on them to start with. |
1st November 2008, 05:39 PM | #6 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
|
The Byzantine nature of the American government was conceived precisely to frustrate the Moron Block, no matter who runs what branch of government. Even if the Democrats or Republicans controlled all branches of government, they themselves would branch off into factions - especially the Democrats. You can trust us with all three branches of government. We'll never do anything with it.
|
1st November 2008, 05:45 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,396
|
Is there a huge moron block amongst Democrats as well?
|
1st November 2008, 06:09 PM | #8 |
Eigenmode: Cynic
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,974
|
|
__________________
A person who won't think has no advantage over one who can't think. - (paraphrased) Mark Twain Political language… is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. – George Orwell |
|
1st November 2008, 06:31 PM | #9 |
not a camel
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 85,730
|
Hands up morons who voted twice for baby Bush.
|
__________________
empty void in space epic wasteland so dark you have no direction and die in sensory deprivation madness all your fault anyway jerk ~ Hlafordlaes |
|
1st November 2008, 07:17 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
|
|
1st November 2008, 09:23 PM | #11 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 569
|
I'd say McCain/Palin campaign has definitely been looking to make an impression with this group and probably has a far greater chance of succeeding too. That campaign has been simplistic, nasty, and negative and negativity works on idiots. I don't know why but it just seems to.
It doesn't help that Obama is an actual intellectual and that alot of his positions are sophisticated enough to demand a 30 second attention span or even more. Not so with McCain/Palin. Go back and watch Palin in her debate. Notice how short and pointed her answers were. Never mind that they were either wrong or didn't answer the question she was actually asked, she made her point. She wanted to get certain notions like Obama raising taxes, being weak on defense, etc. out to the voters who are blissfully ignorant and are either too lazy or too apathetic to even try to find out if what she said was true or not. And then you have to factor in that alot of morons seems to be inclined to racism even if they don't realize or admit it. The moron factor is definitely what's keeping me nervous about this whole thing. I can't wait for it to be over. I just hope it's a big enough landslide so we don't have to worry about voting irregularities/disenfranchisement, moron racists, or court battles. |
__________________
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. We must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind-Jedi Master Yoda. |
|
2nd November 2008, 12:11 AM | #12 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,446
|
Luckily morons get hungry too. And traditionally it's the Dem candidate who is most trusted during times of economic/financial stress.
Also, while I'm not going to overestimate low info voters' ability to get taken in by cheap messages, I do believe most of them have a certain limit regarding how much phony crap they are willing to eat up. My bet is that there's a certain point of diminishing returns that can be reached whereby too much negative, contradictory messaging leads to a growing feeling that these folks' (oft limited) intelligence is being insulted, and some of these low-infoers may begin to distain/distrust the messenger. It is possible that McCain has reached that threshold with quite a few of these folks by now. Not sure, but Palin's increasing negative rating in polls indicates something she is doing seems to be scaring people off. |
__________________
I promise to have faith. Just show me the evidence first. |
|
2nd November 2008, 03:59 AM | #13 |
not a camel
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 85,730
|
|
__________________
empty void in space epic wasteland so dark you have no direction and die in sensory deprivation madness all your fault anyway jerk ~ Hlafordlaes |
|
2nd November 2008, 01:49 PM | #14 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Defending the Alamo
Posts: 9,931
|
Because the moron bloc is, to a man or woman, is motivated by fear, and for them the most fearsome thing in the world is "somebody different than me." That's why the ignorant far right becomes more and more determined and entrenched in its ignorance - the world becomes more and more "other" all the time. For some people, the only defense is to crawl into a shell and pull it in after themselves. The Bimbette's catch phrases tell those people that she understands and shares their fears, and her political position reassures them that she has the power to protect them.
|
2nd November 2008, 01:55 PM | #15 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
Fortunatly most people report that they are smarter than average. "We have seen the enemy and he is us." --Pogo |
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
2nd November 2008, 02:00 PM | #16 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,228
|
|
2nd November 2008, 02:02 PM | #17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Defending the Alamo
Posts: 9,931
|
|
2nd November 2008, 02:28 PM | #18 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
|
|
2nd November 2008, 02:33 PM | #19 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,383
|
I know it's very unskeptical of me to draw a conclusion based on life experience but I consider my life experience to be rather extensive and broad so I am confident in my observations. The morons in both camps seem to come in different flavors. On the right you have all the Redneck, NeoCon, Bible believing fanatics who react to the political propaganda theme of "God Bless America" and "Dems are tax and spenders". On the left you have quite a few fanatics who react to the political propaganda believing the Democrats really want to support the policies of Dennis Kucinich regardless of the fact the Democrats never have once they get into office.
(I still favor the Democrats mind you, but I'm not so foolish as to believe they are going to fully support all the policies they claim to be for. Democratic values include compromise, something the Republicans in the last 3 decades have had no trouble rejecting.) |
2nd November 2008, 02:45 PM | #20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,110
|
|
2nd November 2008, 05:19 PM | #21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,448
|
|
2nd November 2008, 05:29 PM | #22 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
I watched an interview with Alan Alda once. He was asked how he could play a Republican. He pointed out that no one asks him how he can play murderer but there is something about Republicans that an actor would cross some line if he or she played one. In any event he said something I thought important. He always asks the questioner, "how are you so sure you are right"? "Why is it you are so confident in your position that you would think somone wrong to play a Republican?" Given those old dead Greek philosophers how is it that we are so sure that we are right?
For most it doesn't matter. Just being right is all that matters. |
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
2nd November 2008, 09:32 PM | #23 |
Intellectual Gladiator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,948
|
|
__________________
Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
|
3rd November 2008, 06:32 AM | #24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,448
|
|
3rd November 2008, 06:55 AM | #25 |
Gatekeeper of The Left
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one.
Posts: 37,538
|
Offhand, I'd say that 80% of McCain's "base" (and they ARE base) is that group.
|
__________________
For what doth it profit a man, to fix one bug, but crash the system? |
|
3rd November 2008, 10:11 AM | #26 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
|
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
3rd November 2008, 10:15 AM | #27 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
|
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
3rd November 2008, 01:29 PM | #28 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,448
|
|
3rd November 2008, 07:31 PM | #29 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
|
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
3rd November 2008, 07:54 PM | #30 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,423
|
Confirmation bias? You're being silly (and taking this far too seriously).
CS's assumption is a fair one considering that a relatively high level of literacy is required to even take part in an online discussion forum like this one. Most people here write coherently, and reading comprehension is generally sound. Compare it to the literacy level of your average Youtube or Myspace comment, for example. I think you're vastly overestimating the mean intelligence of the population. |
3rd November 2008, 08:20 PM | #31 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
No.
Quote:
Literacy is only one aspect of intelligence. Many educators don't think much of IQ tests, tests that reflect a number of different aspects of inteligence and you want to simply rely on your anecdotal observations of grammatical errors on YouTube and Myspace. How many white collar professionals hang out at YouTube and Myspace? How many teenagers? No, I'm not being silly neither am I taking anything far too seriously. This is a skeptics forum. I didn't see the "no skepticism allowed in the politics forum" sign. |
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
3rd November 2008, 08:54 PM | #32 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,854
|
For what it's worth, I would expect the readers here of any political leaning to be largely free of the Moron Block, since at least in theory we were attracted here by intelligent conversation, and contribute our own thoughts in an environment where they are sure to be challenged. However, I would also suggest that to truly distinguish, we would need some kind of test.
Getting back to the OP, this morning's Los Angeles Times ran an interesting editorial on the subject:
Originally Posted by Larry M. Bartels @ LAT
Originally Posted by ibid
Food for thought. |
3rd November 2008, 09:40 PM | #33 |
I'm watching you
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,320
|
|
__________________
This is a sig file. Does anyone even read this stuff? |
|
3rd November 2008, 09:46 PM | #34 |
Mormon Atheist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,135
|
|
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
|
4th November 2008, 01:00 AM | #35 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
I wonder about the overlap between the Moron Block and the non-voting block. We know that voter turnout in America is piss-poor. I would advance the thesis (without any evidential backup, to get that monkey off my back ) that the moron block might also substanitally overlap with the non-voting block. If that is the case, while some highly visible morons achieve media visibility (Joe the Plumber, Leno's "Jay walking" etc.) does that block really play a role at the actual ballot box?
|
4th November 2008, 04:21 AM | #36 |
not a camel
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 85,730
|
I don't personally subscribe to any "moron" conspiracy theories because they ignore the socio-economic-political context which forms people's attitudes. However, it could be argued that only morons vote in an election that is nothing but a circus. Voting makes us complicit in the coruption, like we somehow asked for it by voting for it. If you vote for it what right have you got to complain about it?
George Carlin On Voting In US Elections: 4 Minute Video Warning - Some readers may find the contents offensive. NSFW http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle21138.htm |
__________________
empty void in space epic wasteland so dark you have no direction and die in sensory deprivation madness all your fault anyway jerk ~ Hlafordlaes |
|
4th November 2008, 04:44 AM | #37 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,193
|
Isn't the silent majority kin to "my dad can beat up your dad"?
And regarding low informed voters, there was a opinion poll (source escapes me) that showed that the more educated you are; the more media you consume and the more media you consume; the more misinformed you are. |
__________________
"Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH" |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|