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30th November 2009, 04:57 PM | #201 |
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You think Palin's candidacy was redundant? Man, you must not know many Palinites.
Another approach: what constructive legislation, in your opinion, did Republicans accomplish in their (ETA: most recent) congressional reign that could not have been accomplished under the other party?
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30th November 2009, 06:43 PM | #202 |
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You post out of ignorance, but I'm sure you're used to it by now. One of the courses I teach is intro to government, where I regularly assign students a political parties comparison research assignment; they are instructed to compare party platforms, so not only have I read them, but I sometimes get over a hundred papers in a quarter quoting planks, and in two weeks I'm sure I will be to recite the Democratic Party's position on abortion verbatim.
I'll repeat what I said earlier to you: you don't have much of an argument.
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And here's another person who seems to post only for the sake of squeezing something out. PonderingTurtle:
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I concede that there is a possibility that Americans might decide they don't like the basic Republican principles. But the GOP hasn't been pushing basic Republican principles over the past decade, so there's no reason to keep the status quo.
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30th November 2009, 06:47 PM | #203 |
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Are you kidding? I'm up to my eyeballs in Palinites.
But still, you don't seem to be able to grasp what I am clearly saying. Palin's candidacy was redundant because Obama's candidacy had already accomplished what the McCain campaign hoped to achieve by adding her to the ticket. Sending her on her rally tour added nothing to the Republican chances, and subtracted quite a bit. It was a net loss. If you're going to argue otherwise, I'm afraid the facts are against you. |
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30th November 2009, 06:48 PM | #204 |
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30th November 2009, 07:02 PM | #205 |
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30th November 2009, 07:03 PM | #206 |
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Facts are in short supply in political campaign analysis but opinions are a dime a dozen. So here's mine - keep the change.
I disagree that Palin was a net loss, especially in the first month or so after she was picked. McCain was weak, the base was lukewarm and the campaign was going nowhere. Palin brought emotion, passion and crowds to her rallys. The base had SOMETHING to cheer for and the ticket had some charisma to counter Obama. In the long run, not so much. But I don't dismiss her impact quite as much as you do, Piggy. |
30th November 2009, 07:04 PM | #207 |
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30th November 2009, 07:06 PM | #208 |
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1st December 2009, 10:42 AM | #209 |
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It looks as if the GOP establishment is pushing back against the idea of the "purity test"...
GOP establishment scorns purity test
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1st December 2009, 10:43 AM | #210 |
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1st December 2009, 11:09 AM | #211 |
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Jobs are a trailing ecconomic indicator, not a leading ecconomic indicator. For example I work in manufacturing, we are like I think a lot of companies, we are presently swamped with work for our current workforce because we laid off many of the people. Now we are trying to delay hireing more workers because we want to see if the level of work will keep increasing to were it was 2 years ago.
So the company is doing much better sales are up something like 30% from what they were 6 months ago, but we haven't increased our work force yet. |
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1st December 2009, 11:13 AM | #212 |
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You were differentiating True Republicans(tm) from the Republicans currently in office, this is a no true scotsman fallacy. You are deciding that some idealized version of republicans who have not been in evidence on the national sceen in decades are more republican than those being elected as republicans.
True republicans are those elected on the republican ticket. |
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1st December 2009, 11:31 AM | #213 |
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Even setting aside the fallacies in the test questions themselves, and what they have to do with being a Republican, why require eight out of ten?
Why not six? Or five? Not only would this test limit Republicans, it would greatly limit them. Hell, the way the questions are it basically says, "fiscal conservatives who are not way right on social issues get the **** out." It's just so poorly thought out on so many levels it's surprising that the GOP even sees a need to address it. |
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1st December 2009, 11:45 AM | #214 |
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1st December 2009, 03:38 PM | #215 |
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Yes, Palin constituted a net loss, but a gain with the base.
Originally Posted by Piggy
What?
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle
By the way, Piggy, I notice you didn't reply to this question:
Originally Posted by Sporanox
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1st December 2009, 05:26 PM | #216 |
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1st December 2009, 07:01 PM | #217 |
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1st December 2009, 07:03 PM | #218 |
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1st December 2009, 07:04 PM | #219 |
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1st December 2009, 07:06 PM | #220 |
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1st December 2009, 07:43 PM | #221 |
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What were the constructive accomplishments of Republicans in their last congressional period of domination? Do you think the same legislation could have been implemented by Democrats had they been in power at the time?
Originally Posted by Piggy
- Barack Obama, 208320821 times this year |
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1st December 2009, 08:23 PM | #222 |
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1st December 2009, 08:24 PM | #223 |
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1st December 2009, 08:42 PM | #224 |
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You understand the first question, right? What do you consider the Republican legislative accomplishments in the past Republican reign?
Point being, what's the use of a Republican Congress if they don't really get anything of significance done?
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Originally Posted by Piggy
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2nd December 2009, 04:06 AM | #225 |
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Actually, I mistakenly quoted you out of context. In fact, you were responding to another poster, accusing him of this No True Scotsman nonsense. The remarkable feature of the No True Scotsman Man fallacy involves convenient, ad hoc redefinition (see Flew's original example). But on these forums almost any time anyone ever says "true X" people immediately hop into action.
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2nd December 2009, 04:20 AM | #226 |
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2nd December 2009, 04:25 AM | #227 |
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2nd December 2009, 06:40 AM | #228 |
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2nd December 2009, 08:36 AM | #229 |
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You must have missed the part where the predicted unemployment without the stimulus was actually less than actual unemployment with the stimulus. If you don't expect him to reach his own goals, you have set the bar low indeed.
BTW, depression is a different term than recession. ETA
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle
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2nd December 2009, 11:17 AM | #230 |
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His stated goal (amongst other things) was to save or create a given number of jobs, not to use his magic powers of awesome to ensure that for the first time in the history of ever the universe would agree perfectly with the predictions of economists.
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2nd December 2009, 02:51 PM | #231 |
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One of the real problems the GOP is has is that some of people who have the most influence in the party are people like Limbaugh and company who first concern is not getting GOPers elected, but in getting high ratings. Rush and his ilk will do anything,even if it hurts the party, to keep their audience and their ad revenues.
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2nd December 2009, 03:17 PM | #232 |
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2nd December 2009, 03:58 PM | #233 |
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I've thought about this and want to reply with another question. Since the Reps emphasize less government, distrust government, and think government is part of the problem not part of the solution, isn't the fact that they passed no significant legislation considered a good thing?
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2nd December 2009, 04:03 PM | #234 |
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I wonder how much influence the radio talkers really have. Rush didn't get his presidential pick, didn't screw up the Democratic Michigan primary, didn't get a win in NY23, etc. Probably the same assessment could be made of Hannity, Beck, etc.
How much sway do they really carry? |
2nd December 2009, 04:43 PM | #235 |
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate
That given number of jobs saved or created was the number necessary for unemployment to be bent to the stimulus crafters' predictions. So, the point is he didn't reach it.
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Originally Posted by SezMe
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2nd December 2009, 05:47 PM | #236 |
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A depression has no hard and fast definition however the commonly accepted ones are a severe economic downturn marked especially by raising unemployment, several years of recession, or four straight quarters of negative growth.
I don't think it is out of line to call this last round a depression. It really has little impact on this thread though. |
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2nd December 2009, 07:33 PM | #237 |
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No, I'm afraid I've lost the context.
I agree that we've had a do-nothing Congress for quite some time. But I've simply lost the train of thought. I'm on several threads here, so I can't trace this one back. My fault. It was one of the goals of stimulus to provide stop-gap jobs on the public dole, but it was never a goal to provide real job recovery. A stimulus cannot do that. Everyone knew (and knows) that real job recovery will lag. ETA: The primary problem of the stop-gap job goal was that it conflicted with the requirement for oversight. You can either do things quickly, and invite fraud, or you can provide oversight and do things slowly. But you can't do things quickly and prevent fraud by providing adequate oversight. |
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2nd December 2009, 07:44 PM | #238 |
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No, it doesn't. I only raise the issue because I'm used to hearing this situation referred to as a recession.
Originally Posted by Piggy
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2nd December 2009, 07:46 PM | #239 |
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You've got to consider time frames.
The far right wing commentators held a minority right-wing audience, quite happily, thru the Dubya years. These were Dubya supporters who felt empowered. In '04, they supported Bush and were paid off. They and their audiences were riding high. '08 was a different kettle of fish. They were not McCain supporters until Palin was brought on board. At that point, they were able to join the ticket. But the loss was actually a boon to them. Limbaugh's ratings and Beck's ratings have actually gone up. Their influence is not in determining elections. They are hangers-on as far as that is concerned. Right now, their influence comes from the fact that those who remain staunchly loyal to the GOP are predominantly the same people who make up the Beck/Limbaugh audience. In other words, now that the GOP is in the minority, the Beck/Limbaugh audience is suddenly the majority among GOP supporters. That's a game changer. Previously, they were a fractional demographic. Not any longer. Before the '08 election, it was enough to simply placate that audience. Now, most Republicans who still have their seats must actively court that audience, because their other constituents have abandoned them. That's a huge difference. In short, the loss has been a boom for the Beck/Limbaugh constituency. |
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2nd December 2009, 07:48 PM | #240 |
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