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21st May 2010, 03:48 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Texas and Textbooks.
Looks like the Texas BOE wants to instill a distorted view of history and politics to children. It's really crazy.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/238322 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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21st May 2010, 03:51 PM | #2 |
Critical Thinker
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They've decided the christian bible is the only textbook they need.
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21st May 2010, 04:39 PM | #3 |
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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21st May 2010, 05:06 PM | #4 |
Banned
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Luckily, teachers will not be required to follow these books to a T.
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21st May 2010, 05:07 PM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The fact that they will likely have this false information in there is enough for concern.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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21st May 2010, 06:05 PM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Quote:
Quote:
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21st May 2010, 11:01 PM | #7 | |||
NWO Master Conspirator
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Actual Texas BoE meeting:
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Vive la liberté! |
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22nd May 2010, 12:06 AM | #8 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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22nd May 2010, 07:48 PM | #9 |
Philosopher
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22nd May 2010, 08:24 PM | #10 |
Master Poster
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I see no mention of them dropping Thomas Jefferson from history. Did that get fixed?
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23rd May 2010, 05:49 AM | #11 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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23rd May 2010, 06:29 AM | #12 |
diabolical globalist
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23rd May 2010, 06:33 AM | #13 |
diabolical globalist
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I seem to recall that the Jefferson issue was in regard to curriculum standards for world history, not American history textbooks.
The Board wanted to drop Jefferson (the deist) as being an influence on Enlightenment thinking. Educators were not forbidden to teach about this aspect of Jefferson's life nor was there any talk about removing him from texts books in any subject. |
23rd May 2010, 09:53 AM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't see the harm. Sure, we use grade school to socialize our kiddles, but most of this stuff isn't going to come up until they hit a college level history course. As long as the textbooks aren't outright lying, why should it matter to other than historians?
I have confidence in the ability of youth to ignore wholesale any subtlety in the instruction they receive, and most of the blatant stuff as well. If you want to see alternate histories reshaping public opinion, you don't need to look at textbooks, you can tune your radio to any AM talk show. The idea that students are empty vessels awaiting any misinformation to fill them seems wrong. |
23rd May 2010, 09:56 AM | #15 |
Philosopher
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This is obviously very dangerous as Texas buys a lot of textbooks, it's a big state with a lot of people in it.
They could have an effect on influencing the production and distribution of textbooks. |
23rd May 2010, 09:56 AM | #16 |
Confusion Reactor
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24th May 2010, 06:25 AM | #17 |
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No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post |
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24th May 2010, 06:27 AM | #18 |
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No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post |
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24th May 2010, 06:33 AM | #19 |
Philosopher
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One of the changes:
Quote:
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No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post |
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24th May 2010, 06:36 AM | #20 |
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Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
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24th May 2010, 07:33 AM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
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24th May 2010, 07:45 AM | #22 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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You didn't quote enough of the original document. It goes on to say:
Quote:
So the best way to balance an award-winning journalist who documented institutional, unsafe working conditions and whose work directly led to two major laws to ensure the safety of the U.S. food supply is contrast him to a fictional character. Go Texas! |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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24th May 2010, 08:51 AM | #23 |
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You missed the true irony here: A fictional character created by an artist* best known for his gauzy, schmaltzy, overly maudlin, landscapes populated by warmly glowing streetlamps, cottage widows and Christian symbols.
* A so-called Christian artist who's behavior is most definitely not Chrisitian |
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No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post |
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24th May 2010, 11:17 AM | #24 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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I hesitated on that point because I found one internet reference that said that Kinkade did the illustrations but not the text. In any case, his is the only name on the book so I guess he should take the credit (blame?) for it.
I just found a blurb that sums up his work nicely. Thomas Kinkade paintings are the beanie babies of the art world. |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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24th May 2010, 01:23 PM | #25 |
Penultimate Amazing
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By that logic, why teach them at all? I'm sorry, but having wrong information will effect students. Just because it won't effect them all doesn't really mean squat. What will happen is that fringe fundamentalist Christians will grow up with their crazy ass version of reality reinforced by schools instead of providing them with the chance to question it. You see the same thing when these types of parents say, "See son, it says 'In God We Trust' right on our money, so we're a Christian nation who needs to keep the queers and atheists in line".
Don't feed the trolls at all. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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24th May 2010, 01:27 PM | #26 |
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Seems like we could save a lot of money here and just get them public domain copies of Grimm's Fairy Tales.
To say that what you learn in high school doesn't affect the average student is dumb. Twenty years later, in the midst of an emotional crisis that could shift a life one way or another, they're going to remember stories they were taught in high school, and possibly make a bad decision based on what they believe is right or wrong based on those stories. Can it be good to think of McCarthy's politics as the right way to do things? Lastly, the whole idea of feeding them malarky because that is the easiest course of action doesn't sit well with me, as it appears to sit with you. History isn't simply opinion; there is truth in there, ande it is the place for historians to debate and decide, not dentists from rural Texas who think Gould supports their creationist views. |
24th May 2010, 02:11 PM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I can understand, though I don't agree with, the reasoning of the religious right to include more religious stuff into the textbooks.
The McCarthy part, however, is just a big, "HUH?!?" |
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"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein |
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24th May 2010, 02:15 PM | #28 |
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Hm... I was a kid who hated history in school, and now I love reading about history.
One thing I've learned is that history doesn't happen to other people, what happened yesterday or a hundred years ago still can and does affect the world we live in today. Learning what happened before helps us understand the world we live in, where we came from, and what we can do to change it, should we feel we need to. |
24th May 2010, 02:22 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
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There is a simple test you can do. Ask someone who isn't an historian and isn't college educated about one of the 'historical truths' that matter so much to Texas. I think you will find that not only do they have a cartoonish view of history, but they will have many a fact blatantly wrong. These are the folks who took high school history before the controversy. The place for nuance is in a college history course, not a high school classroom.
It's done the same way in other fields. No one complains about teaching the Bohr atom because it is wrong. No one decrys algebra that doesn't include complex numbers or the notion of infinity. The reason is that for most of us, the basic version is fine. If we go on to further education, we get a better picture. I do agree that if you want to teach history, you ought to have historians involved and value their opinions. In the same way I would want to have biologists involved in teaching biology. Where I disagree is that this is some grand tragedy with real impact. As far as high school students being idiots, I'd put it rather differently. They simply don't care whether McCarthy was a valiant crime fighter or a blind fool who abused the power of his office. It's not relevant to them. It's a mistake to think of high school students as blank slates we write on to create some creature of our own liking. The Texas board of education will accomplish nothing with their creative editing. |
24th May 2010, 02:26 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This is an excellent example of what matters. People who are interested in a subject pursue it on their own. They find out more and better information. Those who remain uninterested do not and are left with some smooshy ideas that come to naught and fade. It is this mechanism that protects against minor bias becoming meaningful pseudo-truth.
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24th May 2010, 02:49 PM | #31 |
diabolical globalist
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24th May 2010, 02:51 PM | #32 |
Papa Funkosophy
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Yeah, I don't get what's up with that either. The first I'd heard of anyone trying to redeem McCarthy in the history books was from one of Coulter's books.
I don't know if it is really a push to say McCarthy wasn't such a bad guy or if it is a way to justify McCarthy-like used today. |
24th May 2010, 03:55 PM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,635
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Mars, whether or not kids actually read text books is irrelevent. For Texas to place bltatant falsehoods into textbooks is wrong. Also, if it's in the textbooks, then teachers have a reference to a falsehood but "ammunition" to call it a fact.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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24th May 2010, 04:03 PM | #34 |
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Don't mind me. |
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24th May 2010, 04:10 PM | #35 |
diabolical globalist
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24th May 2010, 05:45 PM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I can almost promise you that if I asked one hundred random people on the street about what McCarthy did, 80%+ would say it wasn't good. Sure, I bet that about 10% wouldn't know who I was talking about, but those that would try to defend him would be few and far between. Besides, not knowing is one thing, not learning is one thing, learning the wrong thing and thinking it is right, with 'authoritative' backup is completely different. What if some Truther had something as apparently 'reputable' as these Texas textbooks to cite to a lay person? Who would the lay person believe? The person citing a legitimate text book, or the person citing the wrong one? Beat me too it. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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24th May 2010, 06:10 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How does one provide evidence of something that "may" happen? I can only compare to silly arguments I've heard from those who want to convince me the USA was founded by Jesus. They've pointed to "In God We Trust" as evidence and "God Bless America."
If there are falsehoods in textbooks, they should be fixed when found. |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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24th May 2010, 06:44 PM | #38 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I had to look it up:
Quote:
I looked over the standards to see if I could pick out some factual error rather than bias. I couldn't. Here is a draft version in .pdf which takes forever to load... http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/teks/s...tory073109.pdf |
24th May 2010, 06:46 PM | #39 |
Creativity Murderer
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Essentially. When most college teachers already spend time simply saying 'everything you learnt in high school is wrong' /something/ has to be done.
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Don't mind me. |
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24th May 2010, 07:07 PM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I think I understand the issue better, and I'd like to admit I had a weak case and was wrong.
I think what did it for me was the recommendations in the sciences and on evolution/creation, and the good comments I read here. Thanks. |
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