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12th November 2018, 11:05 PM | #241 |
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12th November 2018, 11:33 PM | #242 |
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No kidding, I thought Steve King was some guy from Long Island. Googling it I see that is Peter King. Definitely some of the quotes provided by Jimbob seem, while not exactly racist (Mexicans are not a race), certainly bigoted.
So what's next? Ritual condemnation as the OP implies is needed? |
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12th November 2018, 11:50 PM | #243 |
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12th November 2018, 11:51 PM | #244 |
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Ignoring might have been enough instead of actively campaigning and voting for him.
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13th November 2018, 02:03 AM | #245 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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13th November 2018, 04:21 AM | #246 |
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13th November 2018, 05:27 AM | #247 |
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13th November 2018, 05:28 AM | #248 |
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13th November 2018, 05:54 AM | #249 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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13th November 2018, 05:58 AM | #250 |
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13th November 2018, 06:12 AM | #251 |
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13th November 2018, 06:44 AM | #252 |
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Where I worked, I knew one manager who didn't seem to be at all racist when dealing with any coworkers, but one day over lunch, he started mocking a young man he had just interviewed for talking like he had been raised in "the hood," and he really got carried away with the stereotyping. The kid probably had been raised in the inner-city, but he also had just graduated with a computer science degree from a good school. He didn't get the job, and I'm quite sure he had a similar experience elsewhere. For some, I think it might be more of a cultural thing rather than strictly racial: Blacks who have fully assimilated the white culture are okay. But still, it's a matter of thinking black culture is inferior and dangerous, so it's the same thing -- discrimination -- in a different form.
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13th November 2018, 06:48 AM | #253 |
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I'm from the South, the deep South. I have family members that were "Everything short of cooking and eating a black guy for Thanksgiving Dinner" level of racist on every practical level
But the weird thing is Hollywood Racism, that open, proud, unapologetic racism is pretty much non-existent. It's always, always that one step removed, "Oh I have no problem with black people just... those kind of black people" type of stuff. |
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13th November 2018, 06:51 AM | #254 |
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13th November 2018, 06:56 AM | #255 |
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13th November 2018, 07:03 AM | #256 |
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13th November 2018, 07:09 AM | #257 |
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The issue being talked about was when "culture" is being used as a substitute for the word "race" because the person using it knows racism is frowned upon. Not when the word culture is being used to mean culture.
For instance for some people when they talk about "gang culture" they will be talking about the social cues, the reinforced behaviour of and interactions normalised by a self identified group and so on. Other people will use it to mean "black" people. |
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13th November 2018, 07:16 AM | #258 |
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No you don't get to hide your racism behind euphemisms.
The "Oh I don't hate black people, I just hate ghetto people/gang bangers/welfare cheats/whatever" is pretty transparent. Again I'm from the South. I know plenty of Meth headed "Let me tell you what y'all I'm saying" Rednecks that swore up and down they "didn't hate black people, just the ones that did drugs and talk funny" and here's the thing... they believed it. |
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13th November 2018, 07:21 AM | #259 |
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What happens when certain cultures are predominantly associated with certain races, or ethnicities? Anybody who has read my posts will know I despise traveller culture and, like it or not, these travellers are almost exclusively white Irish. I am also of the opinion that the majority of murders in London are down to gang culture, specifically black gang culture. Chav culture, white English by definition, is also deplorable, if only for the fact of its utter futility and worthlessness as opposed to hard-core violence. I can say all these things but only one of them provokes instant calls of 'racist'; one of them results in frowns and grumblings and one of them normally elicits nods of agreement. And in case I'm seen to be going OT, my point is that the people who genuinely do criticise culture, but who also admit at that some cultures propagate mainly via certain ethnicities, are lumped in with the people who simply hate certain races but don't have the balls to come out and say it.
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13th November 2018, 07:25 AM | #260 |
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13th November 2018, 07:31 AM | #261 |
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"I'm not racist, I just always find myself arguing on their side by some amazing coincidence" it is then.
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13th November 2018, 07:32 AM | #262 |
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13th November 2018, 07:33 AM | #263 |
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13th November 2018, 07:52 AM | #264 |
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Not sure what was confusing about what I said - if you are meaning to use the word culture as its actual meaning there is nothing unacceptable to talk about cultures. If you are using it to in your mind (3rd person you not you) simply try to avoid making it 100% apparent you are being a racist then it is not acceptable.
We've been at this language malarky for quite some time now as a species so I find it quite strange that people struggle to understand that sometimes a word or phrase is used as a substitute to using another one because of social norms and manners. For instance "Fred passed away" instead of "Fred died" or "What can you expect from someone in Fred's culture?" instead of "What can you expect from a black person". |
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13th November 2018, 08:18 AM | #265 |
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13th November 2018, 08:50 AM | #266 |
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It is relevant whether he is criticising a whole people or certain cultures.
None. My point is how do you know which viewpoint is being communicated. Joe Morque illustrates this very well: He has made the decision that I am a racist on the strength of me talking about culture. Now I couldn't care less about his opinion of me, rather I'm asking what criteria must exist for a person not to be dismissed as racist when talking of cultures that may well be predominant within specific ethnicities. Would those theoretical people have bigger balls or smaller balls than someone, again a theoretical someone, who passive aggressively makes personal attacks using a slimy selection of weasel words? |
13th November 2018, 08:55 AM | #267 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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13th November 2018, 09:00 AM | #268 |
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13th November 2018, 09:20 AM | #269 |
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The continued self-immolation of conservatives in this thread is fascinating to watch.
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13th November 2018, 09:20 AM | #270 |
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13th November 2018, 09:28 AM | #271 |
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The far right keeps on inventing weasel words in oder to camouflage their racism.
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13th November 2018, 09:39 AM | #272 |
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Side note, this thread and the one about antifa =/ democrats have something in common. Folks claiming the other side won't criticize and only defends their worst actors and using forum members as evidence. When if you look, you can pretty easily find reps/cons criticizing King and Dems/libs criticizing antifa.
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13th November 2018, 09:58 AM | #273 |
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Really?
King has just been re-elected to Congress. No one from Antifa is ever even nominated. What a silly equivalence. The number of of reps who criticize King is a small minority. The numbers of dems who criticize antifa is, like, all of them who are not in the fringe group. But keep telling yourself that both sides are equal.... |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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13th November 2018, 10:15 AM | #274 |
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I realize that ahhell's post was hard to parse, but I re-read it a number of times and found it largely correct. I don't believe that anything in that post says that "both sides are equal." I see ahhell lamenting that forum members often use the worst posters as evidence for the toxicity, while if we look, we we can find examples of critical self-examination on both sides of the political aisle. As they put it: "reps/cons" criticizing King, and "Dems/libs" criticizing antifa.
Maybe have another look, and tell me if I'm reading that wrong. |
13th November 2018, 10:21 AM | #275 |
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Of course antifa has been kind of branded as being something other than it was 2 years ago. Then it was peaceful counter protests and videotaping events like like white supremacist marches. But republicans prove just how much better they are at branding and politically correct language that no one will support this activity anymore.
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13th November 2018, 10:24 AM | #276 |
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No, it's a lame attempt at false equivalence.
Yes, there are reps who criticize King. Maybe 5% of them do it. And yes, there are dems who criticize antifa. Like 99% of them. Don't pretend this is anywhere similar, despite the technically true fact that "there are X who criticize Y" applies to both sides. So it's technically true. So what? It's total nonsense to suggest that you can find a person to criticize King, therefore, it's just like the dems and antifa. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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13th November 2018, 10:27 AM | #277 |
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Yeah, this came up earlier. I would be very, very concerned if pretty much everyone participating here did not agree 95% with antifa. Considering that the foundation of antifa is to oppose naziism, that's a damn good position to hold.
I don't agree with all of it, for sure, but the premise is exactly correct. Or at least, I'd hope everyone can agree with it. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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13th November 2018, 10:30 AM | #278 |
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13th November 2018, 10:33 AM | #279 |
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I still think that my reading of that post is correct, but the branding point is a good and valid one. What's that thing - the Overton window? Am I a victim of the framing of this conversation?
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13th November 2018, 10:59 AM | #280 |
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You are too generous, to a fault.
But no, this is similar to the "all politicians lie" defense of Trump's lies. That it's true that all politicians lie to some respect, that doesn't mean that there is anything in common between what Trump is doing and other politicians. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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