IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Iowa politics , racism charges , racism issues , republicans , Steve King , white nationalism , white nationalists

Reply
Old 15th January 2019, 08:32 AM   #321
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,361
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, I will certainly turn my back on him when he speaks in the House. That is, if I can figure out which way is facing away from him and when he is speaking.

That is my point. Your asking me to do those things to demonstrate my opposition to Steve King is like me asking you to stand up against Bob Menendez. You're not in Menendez's district and I'm not in King's. And yes, I know that the sin of racism (which is not a crime) is much worse than the crime of corruption. OTOH, Mendendez is a Senator, not a representative.
When attempting some not-so-stealth whataboutism, I'm not sure bringing up corruption is the best strategy for a Republican.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 09:10 AM   #322
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, I will certainly turn my back on him when he speaks in the House. That is, if I can figure out which way is facing away from him and when he is speaking.

That is my point. Your asking me to do those things to demonstrate my opposition to Steve King is like me asking you to stand up against Bob Menendez. You're not in Menendez's district and I'm not in King's. And yes, I know that the sin of racism (which is not a crime) is much worse than the crime of corruption. OTOH, Mendendez is a Senator, not a representative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 10:32 AM   #323
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 15th January 2019 at 10:34 AM.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 10:44 AM   #324
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.
Maybe. I can't imagine the context in which "Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” works as a stand alone sentence, though, immediately preceded by a sentence ending in the rest of it.
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 10:49 AM   #325
beren
Graduate Poster
 
beren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,245
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Maybe. I can't imagine the context in which "Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” works as a stand alone sentence, though, immediately preceded by a sentence ending in the rest of it.
I can as a purely theoretical exercise, but I don't buy.

Example:
"People have started assuming the everything our country and culture stand for is wrong. PC gone mad assuming that the bad taints the good. They have begun conflating anything traditional, any aspect of our western civilization as being somehow "white nationalist, white supremacist." Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?"


Again: this is purely theoretical, and I am firmly in the "Steve King has proven himself racist over and over" camp.
__________________
There’s only four things you can be in life: sober, tipsy, drunk and hungover. Tipsy is the only one where you don’t cry when you’re doing it. ~ James Acaster

Last edited by beren; 15th January 2019 at 10:56 AM.
beren is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 10:52 AM   #326
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.
Nonsense.

Given the consequences, if that is NOT what he said, then he would be screaming it from the rooftops. Especially in this era of "fake news", where the NYT is being accused of fake news from the right all the friggin time, but these comments, which you think are fake, he is notably silent, even after getting stripped of his committees?

You are crazy.
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 10:59 AM   #327
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by beren View Post
I can as a purely theoretical exercise, but I don't buy.

Example:
"People have started assuming the everything our country and culture stand for is wrong. PC gone mad assuming that the bad taints the good. They have begun conflating anything traditional, any aspect of our western civilization as being somehow "white nationalist, white supremacist." Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?"


Again: this is purely theoretical, and I firmly in the "Steve King has proven himself racist over and over" camp.
After looking over some of his previous remarks, I'm joining your camp.

This dude is no mere, garden-variety racist. He's a pretty open, overt white supremacist.

No idea what his full quote in context was, but it's highly likely that whatever it was, was just as bad as the snippet, which is why he hasn't clarified the matter.
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:23 AM   #328
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Nonsense.

Given the consequences, if that is NOT what he said, then he would be screaming it from the rooftops. Especially in this era of "fake news", where the NYT is being accused of fake news from the right all the friggin time, but these comments, which you think are fake, he is notably silent, even after getting stripped of his committees?

You are crazy.
He has. You didn't read that? Neither have most people.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:33 AM   #329
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
He has. You didn't read that? Neither have most people.
Yeah, I just found that. It looks like this is his story:

(Dubious website known to fabricate actual fake news, but I can buy that this was a real interview, I guess)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ons-of-racism/

Quote:
One of my quotes in a New York Times story has been completely mischaracterized. Here’s the context I believe accurately reflects my statement.

In a 56 minute interview, we discussed the changing use of language in political discourse. We discussed the worn out label “racist” and my observation that other slanderous labels have been increasingly assigned to Conservatives by the Left, who injected into our current political dialog such terms as Nazi, Fascist, “ White Nationalist, White Supremacist,— Western Civilization, how did THAT language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”…just to watch Western Civilization become a derogatory term in political discourse today. Clearly, I was only referencing Western Civilization classes. No one ever sat in a class listening to the merits of white nationalism and white supremacy.

When I used the word “THAT” it was in reference ONLY to Western Civilization and NOT to any previously stated evil ideology ALL of which I have denounced.

My record as a vocal advocate for Western Civilization is nearly as full as my record in defense of Freedom of Speech.
It would be nice to hear the actual audio from gatewaypundit, too, though. It's not all that out there to think they might have doctored that transcript, assuming the interview really even happened.
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:38 AM   #330
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.
Given the following quotes

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
OK. Give me your top five actual quotes of his.
https://www.weeklystandard.com/adam-...grants-as-dirt



Quote:
I guess I’m going to have to go and get some dirt from Mexico to grow the next batch.”

[Laughs]

Audience member: Trust me, it’s already on its way.

Steve King: Well, yeah, there’s plenty of dirt, it’s coming from the West Coast, too. And a lot of other places, besides. This is the most dirt we’ve ever seen.
Quote:
“We add to our population approximately 1.8 million of ‘somebody else’s babies’ who are raised in another culture before they get to us. We are replacing our American culture 2 to 1 every year.”
Quote:
“This whole ‘white people’ business, though, does get a little tired, Charlie. I mean, I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out, where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you’re talking about? Where did any other subgroup of people contribute to civilization?"
Quote:
Faith Goldy, an excellent candidate for Toronto mayor, pro Rule of Law, pro Make Canada Safe Again, pro balanced budget, &...BEST of all, Pro Western Civilization and a fighter for our values. @FaithGoldy will not be silenced. https://t.co/uqkeaUjm7i
Faith Goldy has appeared on podcasts by the Daily Stormer. She is more explicit in her idea of white genocide

For every DREAMer
Quote:
“who’s a valedictorian, there’s another 100 out there who weigh 130 pounds and they’ve got calves the size of cantaloupes because they’re hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert.”
He also likes European white supremacists. Mark Collett who previously stated that AIDS is a “friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it,” and "Jews have been thrown out of every country" and that it's "not just persecution: there's no smoke without fire."

Now maybe King is less careful about his political fellow travellers than I am, but if I wanted to defend myself from accusations of white supremacy, I wouldn't tweet support for so many.

Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:38 AM   #331
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Yeah, I just found that. It looks like this is his story:

(Dubious website known to fabricate actual fake news, but I can buy that this was a real interview, I guess)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ons-of-racism/



It would be nice to hear the actual audio from gatewaypundit, too, though. It's not all that out there to think they might have doctored that transcript, assuming the interview really even happened.
The statement from the gateway pundit did not originate with them. They were quoting from King's Twitter feed.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:42 AM   #332
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The statement from the gateway pundit did not originate with them. They were quoting from King's Twitter feed.
Oh, you're right. I was misreading. My bad.

Twitter link here:

https://twitter.com/stevekingia
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:48 AM   #333
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,361
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?

Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.

But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:49 AM   #334
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
I wish there was no need to speculate. The nyt should release the audio.


I became suspicious as soon as I read the quote. "White supremacists" has had a pretty negative connotation ever since I can remember, which means about the early 70's. I find it hard to believe that any politician, even one as tone deaf as Steve king, could possibly ask that question. It didn't make sense. I started looking around for context. When I saw that no one, including the nyt, published the context, I became more suspicious. I then came up with the theory that the punctuation was wrong. When I saw King's statement, I decided to share my Great Thoughts here.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:56 AM   #335
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
He should be thrown out of office for misspelling "dialogue" in his tweet.

He's a white supremacist, and would be shunned in polite company. In the off-season, this schmuck tools around Europe meeting with the other proponents of "Western Civilization," all of whom are racist fascist jerks too.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:56 AM   #336
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
He's so demonstrably an actual white supremacist, I kinda don't care what he really said. Doesn't matter. It's definitely closely in line with how he believes.
This quote in particular:

Quote:
“This whole ‘white people’ business, though, does get a little tired, Charlie. I mean, I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out, where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you’re talking about? Where did any other sub-group of people contribute to civilization?”
Is there a phrase that describes the opposite of the "benefit of the doubt"? There should be, and that's what he deserves.

"The well-deserved disadvantage of total cynicism."
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 11:59 AM   #337
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
Ha, crosspost!
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:05 PM   #338
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.
Ah, yes I liked that story - I think that might have been in one of my links.

The upside is that even quite overt racists feel the need to deny their racism.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:06 PM   #339
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wish there was no need to speculate. The nyt should release the audio.


I became suspicious as soon as I read the quote. "White supremacists" has had a pretty negative connotation ever since I can remember, which means about the early 70's. I find it hard to believe that any politician, even one as tone deaf as Steve king, could possibly ask that question. It didn't make sense. I started looking around for context. When I saw that no one, including the nyt, published the context, I became more suspicious. I then came up with the theory that the punctuation was wrong. When I saw King's statement, I decided to share my Great Thoughts here.
All you need to do is understand that in the white nationalist echo chamber he lives in this is normal. Why should it be shocking that a person known for speaking at white nationalist events would hold white nationalist sentiments?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:07 PM   #340
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Ah, yes I liked that story - I think that might have been in one of my links.

The upside is that even quite overt racists feel the need to deny their racism.
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:23 PM   #341
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,051
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
In fairness, I think Meadmaker's having a "look what political discourse has become" day. It's like a bad hair day only it's about political discourse instead of hair.

And King's not going anywhere!!

Steve King tweets:

"Mr. President @RealDonaldTrump if the time comes that it is necessary for you declare a state of emergency for border security, build the whole wall out of concrete. Let it stand forever as a monument to the Rule of Law".
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:25 PM   #342
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
Good point, Mr. King. Concrete walls are known for standing forever.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:27 PM   #343
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Rep @SteveKingIA: “13 words have caused this firestorm.”
He knows exactly what he's doing.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:29 PM   #344
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
Could you please explain what you mean by "folks like meadmaker"?
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:32 PM   #345
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Read the link, googled the quote, and I don't get it. What is the significance of 13 words?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:32 PM   #346
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I'm lost. Is it a reference to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
How?
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #347
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Could you please explain what you mean by "folks like meadmaker"?
People defending Steve King in this thread. I mean seriously why is this statement a big deal? He has spoken at white nationalist events before and made is thoughts on the matter clear. So why does this statement that is totally in character get defended as well he didn't really mean that?

Next it will be that white nationalists claiming the Tucker Carlson is using their talking points and the fact that he using their talking points are totally meaningless events.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #348
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
If the NYT misrepresented what King said, he would be vociferously demanding they release the audio recording. I've seen no such demand from him as of now.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 01:10 PM   #349
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If the NYT misrepresented what King said, he would be vociferously demanding they release the audio recording. I've seen no such demand from him as of now.
If he makes no such request, I would tend to agree. We will see what developes.

I remain skeptical, but the story hasn't run its course.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 01:15 PM   #350
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
People defending Steve King in this thread. I mean seriously why is this statement a big deal? He has spoken at white nationalist events before and made is thoughts on the matter clear. So why does this statement that is totally in character get defended as well he didn't really mean that?

Next it will be that white nationalists claiming the Tucker Carlson is using their talking points and the fact that he using their talking points are totally meaningless events.
So, me and....who?

Who else is "like meadmake"?

As for Tucker Carlson, I don't think that's really on topic.

ETA:. And, a story in which King was exposed after denying a statement would give "people like meadmaker" plausible deniability? That makes no sense.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 15th January 2019 at 01:20 PM.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 01:55 PM   #351
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
Is King on record making inflammatory statements that align with white supremacist ideology? Constantly.

Has he endorsed a neo-nazi in an election? Yes.

Has he otherwise cavorted with supremacists / neo nazis? Yes.

Were his recent words taken out of context? Conceivably.

Does this recent incident make an iota of difference in how we should asses King on these matters? Not particularly.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 02:46 PM   #352
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If he makes no such request, I would tend to agree. We will see what developes.

I remain skeptical, but the story hasn't run its course.
What plausible reason could there be for him not to have already demanded it? He's been kicked off all 3 of his committees, the House is preparing to vote on a resolution of disapproval, and King has addressed the House from the floor. He made no demand for a release of the interview audio.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 02:54 PM   #353
ahhell
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,661
I agree with Varwoche, King has a history of saying things that are inflammatory vaguely to clearly racist. If the times took his recent statements out of context or misrepresented them, my opinion of King will not change. I will have a slightly more negative view of the times however.

The thing with defending King, is that its difficult to defend the indefensible. He's got a primary challenger and has been widely condemned by his fellow Repubs, deservedly so.

Last edited by ahhell; 15th January 2019 at 02:56 PM.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 03:08 PM   #354
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
On the downside, Mitt Romney, by calling on King to resign, gets to bolster his credentials as moderate adult in the room with little to no risk.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 03:26 PM   #355
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Is King on record making inflammatory statements that align with white supremacist ideology? Constantly.

Has he endorsed a neo-nazi in an election? Yes.

Has he otherwise cavorted with supremacists / neo nazis? Yes.

Were his recent words taken out of context? Conceivably.

Does this recent incident make an iota of difference in how we should asses King on these matters? Not particularly.

Has he previously made racist comments in a meeting and denied making them and attacked the newspaper that reported them as fake then found that the newspaper had audio evidence?
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 03:34 PM   #356
Robin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Robin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14,971
Did anyone note the comment:

“The N.R.C.C. does not get involved in primaries and isn’t going to comment on a hypothetical general election two years away,”

?

The election in two years is a hypothetical?
__________________
We all hate poverty, war, and injustice
Unlike the rest of you squares.

Tom Lehrer - Folk Song Army
Robin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 03:37 PM   #357
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,809
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Good point, Mr. King. Concrete walls are known for standing forever.
And nobody EVER gets past them.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 03:53 PM   #358
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And nobody EVER gets past them.
Remember that the biggest critic of Trump since 2016 was Trump's earlier words?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...4-speech-video
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 04:16 PM   #359
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,304
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So, me and....who?

Who else is "like meadmake"?

As for Tucker Carlson, I don't think that's really on topic.

ETA:. And, a story in which King was exposed after denying a statement would give "people like meadmaker" plausible deniability? That makes no sense.
Be aware of who you are talking to.
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2019, 04:19 PM   #360
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,304
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.

But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
I'm all for giving benefit of the doubt, but in order to do so, there actually has to be doubt!
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.