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28th August 2019, 07:26 AM | #1 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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Ilhan Omar fires back after Alabama Republicans call for her expulsion from Congress
Ilhan Omar fires back after Alabama Republicans call for her expulsion from Congress
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*Sincere apologies to any morons on this forum. |
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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28th August 2019, 07:35 AM | #2 |
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Слава Україні! **** Putin! |
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28th August 2019, 08:14 AM | #3 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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28th August 2019, 08:16 AM | #4 |
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Alabama GOP is pandering to its
ETA: Just realized there was a redundant word in the first sentence. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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28th August 2019, 11:28 AM | #5 |
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I hereby propose that we replace the term "Yellow Dog Republicans" with "Child Molester Republicans".
If they don't like it, they can stop nominating and voting for them. |
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28th August 2019, 12:17 PM | #6 |
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As someone who has been known to vote Republican, I now think the GOP deserves to die.
Not the biggest fan of Omar in the world,but if you are looking for someone whose actiona are really UnAmerican, look at Benedict Donald in the White House. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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28th August 2019, 12:47 PM | #7 |
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Good on her for cutting to the chase and not couching her response in politically nice terms. She publicly called out the Alabama GOP nominee for what he really is, a sexual predator and child molester - good work Ilhan!
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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28th August 2019, 03:44 PM | #8 |
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Ilhan Omar, you say? That name's in the news today:
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We'll see if any laws were broken. |
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28th August 2019, 06:03 PM | #9 |
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I've seen reports of rumors but no evidence that Omar and Mynett are having an affair. It may be true, it may not be true.
But if true, then Omar and Trump will have something in common. Maybe they can bond over their shared penchant for adulterous affairs and campaign finance violations. |
28th August 2019, 06:45 PM | #10 |
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Not sure whether to start a new thread about this, but since it's already being discussed here, here is the story. While salacious, it appears to be legit:
Ilhan Omar stole my husband, DC mom claims in divorce papers (NY Post) I'm not sure about the Daily Caller angle that this is a violation of campaign finance law, however. But it would seem to appear that two people who were both married to other people at the time were having an affair. And he was working for her, and probably still is working for her.
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28th August 2019, 06:56 PM | #11 |
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It's being discussed in the generic Trump thread.
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28th August 2019, 09:25 PM | #12 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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29th August 2019, 05:06 AM | #13 |
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29th August 2019, 07:17 AM | #14 |
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29th August 2019, 12:33 PM | #15 |
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29th August 2019, 12:38 PM | #16 |
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Please note that I never said it did. It is, however, most definitely more frequent these days. I do, however, find it curious that you say it didn't matter before Trump while at the same time you are the one that said it does matter ("unless she really does something illegal") in the case of Ilhan Omar. Does it matter or not? Make up your mind already, bro. |
29th August 2019, 12:58 PM | #17 |
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"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle "I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt |
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29th August 2019, 01:02 PM | #18 |
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29th August 2019, 04:40 PM | #19 |
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Maybe the GOP should clean up it's own house before accusing anybody else of Anti Semitism:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...-anti-semitic/ |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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29th August 2019, 05:26 PM | #20 |
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Why bother? |
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29th August 2019, 05:46 PM | #21 |
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Honestly, whether you believe it or not, when I was writing that original post I was debating between "more frequent" and "more conspicuous", the point being that it's currently around a peak of some form or another. I think both are true, but I will admit I do not believe I can prove either: I wouldn't know where to begin to find data for the former, and it's hard to even have an objective metric for the latter. I consider this much like the frequently made claim that Trump has lied more than any other president, which I think is rather obvious but have seen at least a couple of resident Trump supporters question. On either issue I have no interest in a back and forth quibble fest with anyone over what constitutes a lie or a crime such as perjury in any sort of attempt to establish the truthiness or falsiness of the claim. If you don't believe it (any of the previous claims in this paragraph), I can accept that. I'm quite used to conservatives refusing to believe facts and reality; I've come to expect it.
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1. It started before Trump (ie, it doesn't matter during the Trump era but then again, it didn't matter before, either). or 2. It never started at all. Please note that he/she didn't explicitly question that it doesn't matter in the Trump era. From context the most reasonable interpretation is 1: It doesn't matter in the Trump era but that started before Trump. |
29th August 2019, 07:22 PM | #22 |
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Yeah, there's stuff on both sides. You might want to read this though, because it sort of flew under the radar during the recent controversy about whether Omar and Tlaib would be allowed to visit Israel:
Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib Partnered with Vicious Anti-Semites to Plan Their Trip to Israel How anti-Semitic? Well, here's a sample: Do Omar and Tlaib hold these views? No, I can't imagine they do. However, instead of going to Israel as part of a bipartisan congressional delegation, they chose instead to have their trip planned by a group that published the above on their website. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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29th August 2019, 07:25 PM | #23 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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29th August 2019, 09:09 PM | #24 |
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I see a pretty big difference between that video and Omar and Talib working with Miftah. Miftah has released some pretty damning statements in the past, but, as far as I can tell, they try really hard to give themselves the appearance of a fairly reasonable Palestinian rights organization. I just spent 5-10 minutes on their website, and I didn't find anything like you quoted. It's all information about how they stand for a "sovereign, independent, democratic, tolerant and inclusive Palestinian state" and other kinds of language you see on a lot of sites for NGOs and other organizations. I can easily see how the congresswomen might have assumed they were working with a mainstream organization that doesn't hold any obvious antisemitic views; it's not like they were planning with an organization that advertises that kind of thing publicly (at least not now, I can only comment on how Miftah presents itself now). Clearly they made a mistake in choosing that particular organization to work with; I could easily see it being the kind of thing someone on staff didn't check into enough. Sometimes it can be really hard to make sure a person or organization has never done something objectionable (for example, a person donating to the salvation army without realizing their history of homophobia), and it's the kind of mistake organizations make all the time. They probably thought they were just working with a human rights organization. That's certainly a different scenario than producing a video filled with obvious antisemitic fear mongering and stereotypes. Or Donald Trump tweeting imagery directly drawn from white nationalist sources seemingly without any thought or checking.
Hopefully obvious disclaimers: I have no idea what the two congresswomen were actually thinking when they planned this, so the above is speculation. But it's also a scenario I can see easily happening, and it's not uncommon. Also, I don't support any of what Miftah has said, I'm just commenting on how they present themselves in public, at least upfront. Again, their website doesn't obviously contain anything radical or antisemitic that I could find with the kind of looking I would expect an intern or staff member to do; they should have done a lot more googling. I don't support any organization that makes statements like that, and the congresswomen made a serious mistake by attempting to work with them. But it's a mistake I can see as understandable. Either way there's (hopefully) an obvious difference between producing that kind of material directly and not doing enough background research on an organization that tries to appear reasonable. |
31st August 2019, 11:07 AM | #25 |
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Wow! You made an assertion and I asked for a cite. I didn't ask you to try and explain away the fact you made a bold assertion without any evidence to back it up. I also did not ask for any comparison to any specific party or president.
I am not a Trump supporter. The man is a dangerous fool and an embarrassment to the United States. Besides - I am a Canadian living in Canada and not a member of nor do I identify with any any political party. I am, however, a person who is posting on a sceptic's board and looking to engage in conversation/debate with someone who is also a sceptic and doesn't run around making statements that are proof that Confirmation Bias is a real thing. I also wonder at your claimed ability to read my mind and also glean my political views. Here is the question again: Cite please. I'll accept any detailed analysis going back 100 years. Easy question. No hidden meanings. Please respond with just what I asked for or admit that you are giving your personal opinion without any facts to back it up. |
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"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle "I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt |
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31st August 2019, 12:01 PM | #26 |
... and your little dog too.
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31st August 2019, 12:28 PM | #27 |
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Wow.
Come back when there's some actual evidence of wrongdoing, not just claims by a right-wing lobby organisation funded by Scaife. So what? Other than double standards and attempted mus slinging what's the deal? Has she ever molested any under-age child? Grouped any unwilling person? |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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31st August 2019, 12:30 PM | #28 |
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Her reply amounts to whataboutism.
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I get disliking republicans, but she is committing some logical fallacies. |
31st August 2019, 12:32 PM | #29 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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31st August 2019, 01:03 PM | #30 |
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The NR article makes the clarification, and I was aware. I just posting in acknowledgement that Miftah did publish the statement somewhere (apparently on its website years ago), and that it does look bad without context of Miftah being a human rights organization and not the hate group the NR tries to portray them as. Even though they did post the statement, they issued an apology for doing so and said it was the fault of a junior employee that was acting inappropriately. Which, of course, the NR seriously downplayed. I probably should have been more clear that the statement doesn't seem to be something Miftah actually endorses (or ever did, when I wrote the post, I didn't feel like looking into their past and was trying to cover my ass in case they had a history of making antisemitic comments - after more research now, I can see they don't, and think the congresswomen didn't make a mistake at all), and that the only people bringing it up are bad actors from the right being dishonest to dig up dirt.
Probably. I already know to treat anything they publish with heavy skepticism, but I was attempting to address the "both sides are antisemites, see? It's the same thing" argument with something a little more substantive than pointing out the flaws of the source. Engaging with things like that is always murky and yeah, I probably wasn't clear enough and could have done better with a few things. Either way, sometimes it's hard to let something like that go unchallenged. |
31st August 2019, 01:06 PM | #31 |
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No, it does not.
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Dude, please.
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I get it; it's incredibly popular round here to try and call out fallacies left and right but it almost inevitably, ironically, ends up being a case of the fallacy fallacy (or argument to logic). |
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A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned. -Shepard Book |
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31st August 2019, 01:11 PM | #32 |
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31st August 2019, 01:22 PM | #33 |
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She has refuted them before and/or apologized for certain comments as Norseman has already stated*. How many times does she need to do so? Every time some idiot repeats her comments out of context as they did with the "somebody did something" comment?
*"she has already refuted the given reasons at the times of their occurrence so there's no need to repeat it here." |
31st August 2019, 01:30 PM | #34 |
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31st August 2019, 01:56 PM | #35 |
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Yes that's true to an extent, but she has pointed out that their claims are baseless as I've said and Stacyhs has kindly reinforced; the refutations happened at the time of the incidents.
Again, it isn't whataboutism when stating factually that this state Republican group has literally no say in how she's elected; they are trying to pressure their own representatives into doing what they wish (by telling their reps to file a motion to kick her out of Congress) which is overstepping their bounds. It is also a fact that this group supported their own representative who happens to be a scumbag who was charged with child molestation which is again, something they directly can, and did, affect. I also notice you disregarded the rest of my post which pointed out that your very usage of two fallacies, in this instance, is itself a fallacy; EVEN IF she committed those fallacies, she still can be correct in her conclusions. This is something of which we should all be more wary as we discuss things here. |
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31st August 2019, 02:01 PM | #36 |
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31st August 2019, 02:55 PM | #37 |
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31st August 2019, 02:57 PM | #38 |
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31st August 2019, 05:05 PM | #39 |
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2nd September 2019, 04:45 AM | #40 |
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Easy there big fella! What the hell; despite my admission that I can't prove the claim I will continue to engage with you. As I previously stated, I would like to amend my claim to "more conspicuous" instead of "more frequent" (though I continue to believe both to be true). "Conspicuous" here meaning (in part) the power of the position of the person in question (ie, the presidency vs mayor of Turkey Lick, KY), hence my counter question: Can you provide a cite of a US president perjuring himself while in office with no consequences at all? I'm not aware of that ever happening, how would you expect me to cite that it never happened? I've looked, I didn't find it, therefore I believe it's never happened before. (Incidentally, that would not only make my claim of "more conspicuous" true, it would also imply "more frequent" is true as well!) Same for other presidential, consequence-free, crimes: I've looked. I found none. Just like with Sasquatch: I can't prove he doesn't exist. I've looked. I found none. If you disagree, perhaps you can find proof. I couldn't, and that's the best cite I can give for non-existence. Feel free to look for consequence free crimes at congressional levels, too. I looked. I found none. I don't think it's possible to prove or cite that such events don't exist (there's always the counter argument that one simply didn't look hard enough). My claim is I looked and found none, and that's absolutely true. The onus is now on you to demonstrate I am wrong (if you can). And where did you come up with the 100 year time frame? If, as you acknowledge, it is my claim, you don't get to set the terms of my claim. That's my prerogative. I said it was more frequent/conspicuous. I could be correct even if it was more frequent/conspicuous 100 years ago--That's not mutually exclusive with either frequency or conspicuity increasing now.
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You know, speaking of Confirmation Bias and uncited claims, I also wonder why you even think I claimed an ability to read your mind or glean your political views. I did not. I invite you to quote me where I made any such claim (even vaguely). You will fail. (By the way, I was only joking about the looking for Sasquatch part; merely trying to make a point). |
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