|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
12th September 2019, 08:12 AM | #41 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,806
|
|
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
|
12th September 2019, 08:13 AM | #42 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,806
|
So from what I am reading out resident conservatives are just with this crap. Got it.
|
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
|
12th September 2019, 08:13 AM | #43 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,814
|
Remember all these declarations of high value in principles the next time the shoe is on the other foot.
I don't recall too many screaming about gaming the system when state legislators flee to another state to deny a quorum for a vote. Scummy is as scummy does. |
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
|
12th September 2019, 08:14 AM | #44 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8,185
|
I've seen some of the Republican lawmakers claim that the Democrats were informed of the vote, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a the level of "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard'.” |
12th September 2019, 08:19 AM | #45 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:22 AM | #46 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:26 AM | #47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
|
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
12th September 2019, 08:26 AM | #48 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
I dunno, I can see the reason for having a quorum; voting is not their only duty, and getting everyone together all the time would slow government.
However, I do think veto rules shouldn't be based on percentage present, but either total votes (like theprestige said, 3/5ths of the total) or on quorum (instead of vetoproof, make it so that a larger quorum can over-ride). Basically, poor rules when a minority can pass something that's veto proof. |
__________________
History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell |
|
12th September 2019, 08:26 AM | #49 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
12th September 2019, 08:33 AM | #50 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,208
|
Which of these do you think it preferable?
a) make it easy for government to maker new regulations b) make it harder for government to make new regulations Filibusters and other measures that can restrict the power of the majority serve an important role in democracy and as an important check on the power of government. I’m not convinced measures that allow a minority to enact laws on it’s own do the same. |
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
|
12th September 2019, 08:35 AM | #51 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Yeah, but conceptually, how hard could it be? As legislators, surely voting is in their top three responsibilities? Just a 'hey, guys, voting is on the first Friday of every month (or every Friday or whatever). Bag the photo ops and be at work on that day, in exchange for your paycheck. Remember to shave'
eta: also, yeah, 3/5ths of total representatives, at a bare minimum. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:38 AM | #52 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:38 AM | #53 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
Ah for the record the NC State Legislature is in session for a whopping... 9 whole days (and not like 9 twenty four hour days, 9 working days) in the entire month of September so it's not like we're working them to death or not leaving them time for other duties.
https://www.ncleg.gov/LegislativeCalendar/9/2019 |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
12th September 2019, 08:40 AM | #54 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
|
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
12th September 2019, 08:44 AM | #55 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
It's preferable that laws pass or don't pass based on something other then childish procedural tricks. We don't have to break out the Polysci 101 chart.
Legislative equivalents to "There's nothing in the rulebook that says a Golden Retriever can't play football!" do us no favors, not from the perspective of our freedom, not from the perspective of our security, not from the perspective of more or less government ideologies. Even if you think it should be harder for the government to pass laws, "neiner neiner move your feet, lose your seat" is not the answer. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
12th September 2019, 08:44 AM | #56 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:46 AM | #57 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
In a justly run society a legislature would have specific business hours set for votes and no voting done outside those hours would be permitted. And to ensure attendance the legislators would be nailed into their seats for the required period. I believe the time will come when the public must express, firmly and clearly, what level of service it demands from its servants.
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
12th September 2019, 08:46 AM | #58 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
Did it make those sissy latte sipping libruls mad?
Then why are we asking why they did it? We all know. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
12th September 2019, 08:49 AM | #59 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:49 AM | #60 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
|
In the past, that wasn't necessary... both sides recognized that the needed to act civil, respect the processes that were in place, etc.
Now that the republicans have basically peed in the pool with their dirty tricks, and showed themselves to be completely untrustworthy, it looks like they might need to enact those type of rules. The negative part is that it does limit the flexibility of the government... if an issue requiring immediate attention comes up, you might find they need to wait a week or month for one of the voting days, despite any problems such a delay might cause. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
12th September 2019, 08:50 AM | #61 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 10,589
|
|
12th September 2019, 08:54 AM | #62 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
|
Jeez! Read the whole article. One of the top GOPers told one of the top Dems (who passed it along) that there would be no voting in the morning session. Said GOPer actually confirmed that to a radio station Tuesday night but, as he said, "I didn't tell anyone else".... as if that's a free pass.
It was a scam. The number of Republicans who showed up pretty much indicates that. If it was just confusion about the calendar then the GOP members would've been absent, too. They weren't. They called the vote so quickly, several of the Dems who were in the building couldn't get to the chamber on time so the speaker(if that's his title) counted their votes as "against" the override just so they could finish up before more Dems got back to the building. Smarmy tactics. The NC GOP, were this a civilized country, would be banned from participation in politics for about five years. |
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
|
12th September 2019, 08:54 AM | #63 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
|
|
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
|
12th September 2019, 08:55 AM | #64 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
|
|
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
|
12th September 2019, 08:55 AM | #65 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 08:56 AM | #66 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
|
12th September 2019, 08:57 AM | #67 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
12th September 2019, 08:59 AM | #68 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
12th September 2019, 09:02 AM | #69 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
"Hey we made the decision why you were gone" isn't the kind of thing you'd tolerate if was just you and your roommates deciding on pizza toppings AND you weren't the one who told the roommates that you super seriously pinky swore promise not to order the pizza why they were in the bathroom and then went ahead and did it anyway.
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
12th September 2019, 09:34 AM | #70 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,814
|
The problem was known and solved long before the US was created. This is why the sergeant at arms in states and the US Congress is authorized with the odd and rarely-used power to compel the appearance of members.
Fixing fleeing to another state, where the sergeant has no legal power, would require some kind of mutual extradition-like agreement. |
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
|
12th September 2019, 09:35 AM | #71 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division. |
|
12th September 2019, 09:36 AM | #72 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
12th September 2019, 09:56 AM | #73 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
I can see why you don't get the difference. The GOP in TX was redistricting in between decade censuses, something never done, so they could gerrymander more districts and shift control of Congress.
This began a decades long era of GOP cheating: GW Bush's firing of the 8 state AGs who would not prosecute for political reasons, voter caging, purging the voter roles in FL of anyone who had the same name as a felon. Then we had McConnell pulling a bull **** move re the SCOTUS. And now this. The GOP is revealing just how much of our checks and balances government was dependent upon people voluntarily acting ethically. Denying a quorum in a desperate effort to stop unethical gerrymandering is hardly the same as calling a vote knowing legislators that had a right to vote wouldn't be there is not even close to the same thing. |
12th September 2019, 10:02 AM | #74 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:04 AM | #75 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:06 AM | #76 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:08 AM | #77 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:09 AM | #78 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:41 AM | #79 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,811
|
|
12th September 2019, 10:50 AM | #80 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,903
|
|
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|