|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
1st October 2019, 06:12 AM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
Resolved: Trump Era Republicans Are Uniquely Bad in American Political History
I've presented this challenge in a couple of other threads; no one chose to take me up on it. I claim what the title says. For starters, I've never seen an American political party that so brazenly lies about such easily checked facts (and without a hint of evidence to support their position) regarding such matters as: Birtherism, Clinton Murder Spree, Climate Change, and Millions of Illegal Voters, to name but a few.
If you disagree, I challenge you to find me a comparable example of such blatant disregard for the Truth. |
1st October 2019, 06:23 AM | #2 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
"Plenty of Presidents have declared war... but never on reality. You got to admit that's kind of new." - Bill Maher.
But yes I agree, for all the good it's going to make to the Trumpers. In completely neutral terms, the first President elected with zero prior elected or very high military office experience. We kid about Reagan being an actor or Jimmy Carter being a peanut farmer but at least they did stuff in between that and the highest office of a global superpower. Trump went right from getting Stone Cold Stunnered at Wrestlemania and hosting the Apprentice to POTUS. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 06:48 AM | #3 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
Counter examples: (note, I am a Libertarian, so I don't give a **** about which party)
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 06:53 AM | #4 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 06:57 AM | #5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,701
|
|
__________________
The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
|
1st October 2019, 06:58 AM | #6 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:00 AM | #7 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:04 AM | #8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,701
|
I don't disagree, but OP specifically set the period of comparison as the total of American Political History. Being uniquely bad for the last 50 or 70 years is pretty bad and is a much easier argument to make.
You can't say "I'm the most X in the world!" and then when challeneged that someone in another country is more X than you say "But that country is really different!". The scope of the claim is what it is. |
__________________
The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
|
1st October 2019, 07:05 AM | #9 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
1st October 2019, 07:05 AM | #10 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:08 AM | #11 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 07:08 AM | #12 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,554
|
There is a major flaw in the idea of grading anyone contemporary by the standards of the last 200 years.
It is perfectly correct to judge the behavior of Republicans by the standards of Today. Which makes them perfect scum. |
1st October 2019, 07:09 AM | #13 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 07:10 AM | #14 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
Yes. We're past the days where a large portion of the poulation had to sign things by making an X. I realize that it's human nature to exaggerate the negative but since this thread does touch upon actual history let's keep some perspective. My FOX News watching, uncritical thinker mom may not be a brilliantly sagacious intellectual but she's light years ahead of eighteenth century dirt farmers who died of old age in their forties convinced the world was flat.
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:12 AM | #15 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:13 AM | #16 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
The idea that just because it wasn't literally spelled out that the comparison being made has to take place in roughly similar social/political environments means it wasn't implied is just nitpicking, hairsplitting, stalling nonsense.
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:14 AM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
There has never been a POTUS who was a rank conspiracy theorist, churning them out on the daily.
There has never been a POTUS who was such a brazen racist/bigot (applying the norms of the times) There has never been a POTUS who constantly lies about matters big and small, to such an extent that they have declared a war on reality. There has never been a POTUS who was such a brazen narcissist, to such an extreme that may as well be a surreal comedy. There has never been a POTUS who buddied up with dictator thugs, predicated on dismissing the facts provided be his own team. There has never been a POTUS who buddied up with dictator thugs while at the same time alienating long-standing allies. There has never been a POTUS who encouraged his followers to commit violence against fellow citizens behaving lawfully. There has never been a POTUS who presents themselves to the world as an infant -- constantly. There has never been a POTUS so woefully uninformed on the wide array of topics that POTUSes deal wth. There has never been a POTUS who received the depth and breadth of the blowback from their own party. (Glibly hand-waved away as "never Trumpers") This is for sure...! Never has one individual embodied so many obnoxious, unhinged, anti-democratic characteristics. Claiming that this freak show is business as usual is flat out delusional. (Every time I crank out a different version of this list, I leave off a few goodies.) |
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
1st October 2019, 07:17 AM | #18 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,554
|
there are many ways in which the Trump Presidency is unique in US history.
The way in which Republicans have abdicated their Constitutional obligations of oversight is one of them. |
1st October 2019, 07:33 AM | #19 |
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,360
|
You could make a case that Trump is a uniquely bad President and I won’t even argue with you. The OP is saying that the modern GOP as a whole is uniquely bad in American History and that simply isn’t true.
|
__________________
Hello. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:34 AM | #20 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 07:45 AM | #21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8,185
|
|
1st October 2019, 07:46 AM | #22 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
When your doctor asks you for medical history do you start at the Big Bang creating the individual carbon atoms that would one day be you and get huffy and pissy when they go "No it's fine you can skip ahead to when your symptoms started."
Not to mention that most things being mentioned ARE totally unique, not just modernly unique. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st October 2019, 07:49 AM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
1st October 2019, 08:02 AM | #24 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
Could you be more specific? For example, I'm thinking of the brazenness of a president having his own son attempting collusion with Russians in his own Trump Tower and then blatantly lying by saying that does not constitute attempted collusion. I've never seen such a significantly large group as Trump's base just repeatedly lie and contradict easily observed reality. Let's also not forget that none of these four examples had the benefit of 24/7 social media to swamp the narrative with their lies, either. That by itself contributes to the uniqueness. |
1st October 2019, 08:06 AM | #25 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
|
1st October 2019, 08:09 AM | #26 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
1st October 2019, 08:31 AM | #27 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
The internet allows plausible (at least for them) deniability, ironically.
|
1st October 2019, 08:32 AM | #28 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
|
1st October 2019, 08:43 AM | #29 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
1st October 2019, 08:48 AM | #30 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
1st October 2019, 09:03 AM | #31 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 53,086
|
|
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." |
|
1st October 2019, 09:06 AM | #32 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 09:21 AM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
|
Minor point:
The opening point talked about how modern day republicans dismiss "easily checked facts". Now, something like slavery was a moral failing on the part of the United States (and to democrats who supported it). But supporting something like slavery doesn't qualify as being an "easily checked fact". No, you're not seeing "moon landings" in the OP. But you are seeing 'birtherism', and the 'clinton murder spree' in the OP. Those are both conspiracy theories... they are easily refuted and do not stand up to even basic scrutiny. But they are both spread by either Trump himself or his supporters. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
1st October 2019, 09:39 AM | #34 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
I didn't make it for you, but you're welcome to your opinion. If you haven't noticed, people defend Trump by claiming, "But he's not uniquely bad!" I think that deserves a response. You can disagree, but I'm a bit nonplussed at why you feel it necessary to actually whine about it. If you can't defend your position I'd have more respect if you simply man up and say so.
But whatever turns you on, bro! |
1st October 2019, 09:40 AM | #35 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
|
1st October 2019, 09:52 AM | #36 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
|
1st October 2019, 10:09 AM | #37 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,812
|
|
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
|
1st October 2019, 10:12 AM | #38 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
1st October 2019, 10:16 AM | #39 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
|
It's been much longer than that (by well over a week) when I brought this up in a couple of other threads---No Response there, either. Just pointing out a pattern and, yes, rubbing it in:
|
1st October 2019, 10:17 AM | #40 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
The Anti-Masonic Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party The Green Party for their 9/11 conspiracy theories and other forms of science denialism(GMOs) Lots of various crazy political movements in US history: The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hofstadter |
Thread Tools | |
|
|