|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
20th April 2005, 07:48 AM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,984
|
De Lay Sticks Foot in Mouth ... Again
From CNN and AP:
Quote:
Where shall I start? How about with the most "activist" case--by far--in recent years: Bush v. Gore. You will never find in all of the Supreme Court decisions anything more at odds with the Constitution and the democratic process than what the Court did in Bush v. Gore. But DeLay loved what the Court did, because it meant that his bud was assured of getting into the White House. DeLay didn't seem to mind at all that, for this one case, the most "conservative" members decided to act like flaming liberals on acid, setting aside precedent and constitutional principles, and doing what they could to hand the White House to Bush. And who was responsible for that steaming pile of rubbish from the Supreme Court? Well, the five justices who committed that atrocity wouldn't sign their names to it, but some insiders have said that it was Justice Kennedy who wrote much of the Court's opinion. In addition, there would not have been a majority on the stay (which was a gross injustice in itself) nor on the final decision if not for Justice Kennedy's vote. (Of course, Justices Rhenquist, O'Connor, Scalia and Thomas are also responsible for the worst decision in the past 100 years, probably the worst in Supreme Court history. For a criticism of Justice Antonin Scalia's hypocritical stance on judicial activism, including his role in Bush v. Gore, see this editorial from the New York Times [reg. req'd, limited time].) Now, is DeLay right that it is outrageous for Justice Kennedy to write a decision based upon international law, rather than the Constitution of the United States? Of course not. DeLay is merely showing himself to be an ignorant twit, and what is really outrageous is that he holds any public office or position of leadership. The Supreme Court case DeLay is talking about is Roper v. Simmons, decided last month. Had he bothered to read the opinion, DeLay would have found extensive discussions of constitutional law and United States precedent. In addition, he might have found this:
Quote:
|
__________________
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
|
20th April 2005, 08:12 AM | #2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,410
|
Re: De Lay Sticks Foot in Mouth ... Again
Quote:
|
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
|
20th April 2005, 08:41 AM | #3 |
No Punting
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not In Follansbee
Posts: 5,781
|
Kudos to Brown for having the ability to respond...
I saw that this AM and it threw me to where I couldn't come up with a response... on the whole this is so absurd as to make the brain seize up... So stupid it is hard to respond.. Legal research on the internet as "outrageous." That's just nuts... not often is method of legal research the proper subject of outrage.. What would be outrageous is a bill from a lawyer who didn't use it... I don't even want to begin to think of how much more efficient internet databases are as opposed to hitting the library... Then the "international law" thing... Ye gads.... I mean...
Quote:
I have trouble reacting to absurdity with anything but absurdity.... |
20th April 2005, 08:52 AM | #4 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,895
|
Just keep handing De Lay rope, he's got a pretty big stack of it already. He'll hang himself soon enough.
|
20th April 2005, 08:56 AM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,984
|
I listened to the entire DeLay interview (it's available at the Fox "News" web site). DeLay wasn't the only dead-head talking; Tony Snow also seemed to be rather deficient in the intelligence department. (It was Snow who introduced the word "outrageous" into the discussion, and Snow agreed that the things DeLay referred to were outrageous.)
DeLay once again referred to the Democrats as a "syndicate," so as to compare them to mobsters bent on evil. To hear DeLay talk, the mean old Democrats see their function in life as getting in the way of progress, opposing things just so they can be opposers. And the Democrats use the courts as their legislature, DeLay said. What a buffoon. DeLay remarked at one point, "I'm not a lawyer," and I had to bite my tongue to keep from yelling, "No s***!!" It's amazing that he does not see his lack of knowledge about legal matters to be any impediment to him defining policy for legislative control of the judicial branch. |
__________________
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
|
20th April 2005, 08:58 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The old Same place
Posts: 11,138
|
Sounds like he's self-destructing. I shall wipe a tear.
|
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
|
20th April 2005, 09:07 AM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
Seeing as DeLay has stated unabashedly that US foriegn policy should be based on the bible, a little bit of confusion about the law and the internet barely ripples the pond of actual reality.
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
20th April 2005, 01:28 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,109
|
That's it.
There will be a bake sale this weekend. Hopefully we can raise enough money to make Tom DeLay a nice big cup of SHUT. THE. F%$#. UP. Do his axons fire? Do they fire electrical impulses across the synapses or do they fire retarded ameoba clowns? Does he have Alzheimer's? Is he going senile? Suffering from dementia? Is it an insult to those who are actually suffering those to suggest that's DeLay's problem? I... I... What was his opponent in the election? The amalgamted clone of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Justin Timerblake? People voted for a dead guy over Ashcroft. Who votes for this guy? |
20th April 2005, 02:36 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
Particularly chilling (from the CNN report) :
Quote:
|
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
20th April 2005, 02:54 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 15,892
|
I am quite saddened that DeLay insists on hastening his departure. Having him as the face of the Republican Congress was the best chance Dems had to make gains next year. Hopefully his stench will linger.
|
20th April 2005, 03:15 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
20th April 2005, 03:29 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 10,493
|
Quote:
|
__________________
For 15 years I never put anyone on ignore. I felt it important to see everyone's view point. Finally I realized the value of some views can be measured in negative terms and were personally destructive. |
|
20th April 2005, 03:46 PM | #13 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
20th April 2005, 04:01 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
Quote:
Suddenly, "no ideas of their own" doesn't sound like such a bad situation. |
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
20th April 2005, 04:04 PM | #15 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,503
|
Quote:
He's a comedian not a political analyst, but I think it's pretty accurate. |
__________________
Why stay sane in a sick world? |
|
20th April 2005, 05:32 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 15,892
|
Please visit this thread for the rollcall of Swell Republican Ideas.
|
20th April 2005, 05:34 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,410
|
Quote:
|
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
|
20th April 2005, 07:31 PM | #18 |
Neoclinus blanchardi
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,953
|
Quote:
After the hangin' he keeps on talkin'. |
__________________
Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't. Don't ask what happened to Schrodinger's dog. |
|
20th April 2005, 07:48 PM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,506
|
Quote:
|
20th April 2005, 08:47 PM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,984
|
Quote:
Drunk with power. I've seen this sort of thing before, but never to this degree. People on a "power trip" lose their good judgment and most of their sense of self-awareness, and often become incoherent and paranoid. DeLay has all the symptoms of a b@st@rd on a power trip. |
__________________
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
|
20th April 2005, 09:07 PM | #21 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 46,328
|
I am sure the Republicans can't see what the issue is, they make a virtue out of stupidity now.
|
__________________
We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
|
20th April 2005, 09:13 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,984
|
Quote:
They do not see playing to people's stupidity as a vice, but it is. They REALLY do not see hypocrisy as a vice, but it is. They do not see that fearmongering is a vice, but it is. They behave as though "The end justifies the means," and do not see this attitude as a vice, but it is. |
__________________
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
|
20th April 2005, 09:30 PM | #23 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 142
|
Re: Re: De Lay Sticks Foot in Mouth ... Again
Quote:
I appreciated reading all your responses. Whenever I think of de lay, I just start sputtering and go open a bottle of wine. |
20th April 2005, 09:33 PM | #24 |
I lost an avatar bet.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,781
|
Quote:
I think that accounts for most of it. The rest is his trying to take the spotlight off of himself and put it on someone else. I predict that he'll be making more and more outragous comments about other people in government. |
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
|
20th April 2005, 09:53 PM | #25 |
Alumbrado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,600
|
Quote:
And people continue to be 'shocked, simply shocked' when those at the top exhibit these behaviors? And even worse, get into arguments over the behavior of *their* leaders versus the 'bad' ones? Get over it people.... ***** floats, and if you keep looking at the top, that is all you are going to see. It doesn't matter if it is Bush, Clinton, Dean, Delay, Byrd, Nader, Kerry, or Badnarik...they all share that common feature...they are power addicts and attention whores. You don't make it to these positions by good luck and plucky determination....you get there by being willing to do whatever it takes, and by being a partial psychopath. And by presenting the voters with as little choice in the matter as possible. |
20th April 2005, 10:08 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
Quote:
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
21st April 2005, 06:31 AM | #27 |
No Punting
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not In Follansbee
Posts: 5,781
|
As per the "good behavior" thing....
I accidently turned on c-span, and there was some "panel discussion" where the idea was seriously brought out that the President should be able to simply call up Judges and tell them to clear out their desk and go home... also suggested impeachment for "judicial arrogance" and suggested that is the problem we are facing today.... The Rebublican party has made its bones the last decade or two mainly by labelling anyone in the center as being dangerously liberal, thus positioning themselves as moderates... and now they seem to be moving on to giving the moderate right the same treatment.... Calling Kennedy out for being a dangerous liberal is just.... words fail me.... |
21st April 2005, 09:21 AM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The old Same place
Posts: 11,138
|
Quote:
Just as a coach (in basketball, say) will put the refs on guard by questioning their calls or lack thereof--that is, even when not warranted--as an actual component of offensive strategy, political opponents can and often will do much the same. For instance, by utilizing "liberal media" as a pejorative, and screaming it over and over, the right gets reporters, editorialists, producers, etc. to make extra effort to avoid the label, effectively moving them towards the right. Even if they were moderate to begin with. The current assault on the judiciary by the right wing may simply be a page out of their playbook. Don't want to be harassed? Do it our way. |
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
|
21st April 2005, 09:28 AM | #29 |
Briefly immortal
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 43,587
|
This is very telling. I visit this site often, and on most issues, cartoonists line up on either side of an issue (with some sort of in the middle.) For DeLay, not one single person seems to be defending him.
But actually, I want him to hang around, embarassing the Republicans for just as long as he can. |
21st April 2005, 11:53 AM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
21st April 2005, 12:18 PM | #31 |
Alumbrado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,600
|
Quote:
'Justice Ginsburg is a prime example of a judge who sees the bench as a platform to advance her own extremist views.' and 'Justice Souter is a judge who is very eager to make law from the bench.' |
21st April 2005, 12:41 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,410
|
Quote:
|
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
|
21st April 2005, 04:07 PM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
Quote:
|
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
21st April 2005, 04:14 PM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,109
|
Quote:
Not trying to detract from your analogy, though. Sorry. |
21st April 2005, 04:39 PM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
DeLay and his ilk seem convinced that their country has been stolen from them by Franklin Delano. They haven't yet accepted that he's dead. Not only was it stolen then, it's been continuously stolen since and continues to be stolen to this day. Ordinary Americans - such as DeLAy - have been unable to prevent this by electing Eisenhomer , Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to run the place for most of that time. No sirree. Kennedy may not have ruled long, but he was a super-villain and stole the country. Johnson was a sick man who, to his credit, bombed crap out of a foreign region, but he stole the country. Nobody could stop him. Carter - four years of cultural larceny. And of course the greatest super-villains of them all, the Clintons.
Nothing could be done. Great men like McCarthy, McArthur and Kissinger were helpless against liberal power. The right-thinking, gut-following, salt-of-the-earth American majority blessed with the levers of the greatest democracy history will ever know : chaff before the wind. Even the totemic Reagan failed to quell the mighty magics of The Liberals. But all that's about to change! Barry Goldwater told us so. Wise up, people. A Democratic gets in next. The various crapstorms heading America's way will be either staved-off until then or brought forward into 2009-12. And then the end of democracy in the US of A. You may not have heard it here first, but if you did, remember you heard it here first. |
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
21st April 2005, 05:21 PM | #36 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 46,328
|
Quote:
|
__________________
We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
|
21st April 2005, 06:12 PM | #37 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 382
|
Quote:
Real things have happened, and people have seen, and continue to see, ever more clearly what the plans of the Republicans really entail. And they do not care for them. He is counting on his aura of invincibility to protect himself and his party -- and it increasingly looks like that aura was an illusion. People are figuring out that a President who can't even hack a town meeting without hand-picking every single participant has a problem communicating with the public. A few weeks ago I saw a little cluster of green signs go up urging me to save social security and support President Bush. Those signs are quietly vanishing. He is losing, and his party is losing, and the best thing about this to me is that none of them have the emotional maturity to handle it with any grace. It's revealing their true character -- which of course perceptive people have known the nature of all along. |
__________________
"We will stay the course." -- George W. Bush, July 10, 2003. "We will stay the course." -- George W. Bush, August 30, 2006 "We've never been stay the course." -- George W. Bush, October 22, 2006 |
|
17th May 2010, 08:57 AM | #38 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,984
|
Curious how things have changed in five years. Tom DeLay has danced his way out of government. But his wailing and gnashing of teeth is perhaps about to be renewed, as the US Supreme Court today said that a juvenile offender may not be sentenced to life in prison without parole for a nonhomicide crime, under the Eighth Amendment’s Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause. The case is Graham v. Florida and it is available on the Supreme Court's web site.
As with the Roper case, the opinion was written by Justice Kennedy. As in the Roper case, the Court made mention of how other nations approach the issue. The Court went out of its way to stress, however, that international consensus is not binding:
Quote:
Justice Stevens wrote an opinion in which he tweaked Justice Thomas for having a problem with the concept of evolution (but not the biological kind):
Quote:
Justice Thomas (apart from having a howler or two in his opinion), shows his disdain for the foreign law point by discussing the question in a footnote. |
__________________
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
|
17th May 2010, 11:24 AM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
Hmmm, if Stevens thinks the court "wisely" rejects Thomas's approach, does that mean he thinks Thomas is not so wise?
BTW, what was the final tally? |
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
17th May 2010, 12:36 PM | #40 |
Salted Sith Cynic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 38,527
|
|
__________________
Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|