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17th May 2012, 11:18 AM | #161 |
Great minds think...
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Wow, real no planers. Good luck debunkers, we all know this isn't going to end.
These guys use quotes from people who come out and say they are being misrepresented, none of the evidence is going to be "good enough", but all of their evidence is rock solid no matter where it came from. I'll enjoy lurking, but nothing will come of this. Just more attention for the attention whores to soak up. |
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17th May 2012, 11:29 AM | #162 |
Banned
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17th May 2012, 11:32 AM | #163 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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17th May 2012, 11:32 AM | #164 |
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17th May 2012, 11:33 AM | #165 |
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17th May 2012, 11:36 AM | #166 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 11:37 AM | #167 |
Man of a Thousand Memes
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17th May 2012, 11:38 AM | #168 |
Muse
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17th May 2012, 11:46 AM | #169 |
a carbon based life-form
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17th May 2012, 11:55 AM | #170 |
Muse
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(highlighting mine)
ftfy jammonius "I never saw the airplane." THE AIRPLANE. Not an airplane. To me that means he knew there was an airplane, but he never saw it. Sorry about the red. Their posting styles are so convoluted that I had to do something different to make my corrections noticable. |
17th May 2012, 11:55 AM | #171 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 11:57 AM | #172 |
Philosopher
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Sweet! Now there are 3!
7 believes mysterious orbs hit the towers... Tracy thinks they were holograms.. and Jammy doesn't believe anything hit the towers. Who do we believe? |
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17th May 2012, 12:05 PM | #173 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 12:07 PM | #174 |
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You wish! Debunkers have posted 0 authenticated PLANE SPOTTER witnesses, thus far. It's not yet totally out of hand, so I see no need to help debunkers do their homework for them by finding some for them. What I will do here, however, is add another adamant NO PLANER. This would be Battalian Chief Stephen King who was in WTC 1 at the time of the confirmed explosion at the WTC 2. His statement does not copy/paste properly for me, so posters will have to either look at the source or fill in the missing letters: "IT WAS JUST HEARD PLANE STRUCK THE SOUTH TOWER REMEMBER SAYING HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IN MY MIND IM THINKING IT MIGHT BE NEWS HELICOPTER IM THINKING THAT YOU KNOW WHEN WE HAVE AN EVENT LIKE THIS IN THE CITY HOW YOU GET ONE OF THOSE HELICOPTERS IN THERE VERY QUICKLY SO LITERALLY ALTHOUGH THEY SAID AN AIRCRAFT IM THINKING THAT MAYBE ITS SOME IDIOT IN NEWS HELICOPTER CIRCLING YOU KNOW FILMING THIS EVENT IN THE NORTH TOWER AND SOMEHOW HE PLOWED INTO THE SOUTH TOWER OR ELSE IM SAYING TO MYSELF IF IT ISNT THAT MAYBE ITS IM PILOT BY THE WAY IM COMMERCIAL PILOT FOR 30 YEARS FLEW IN THE NAVY FIXED WING PILOT FIXED WING IVE FLOWN SOME HELICOPTERS BUT FIXED WING AND FLEW IN THE NAVY BUT ANYWAY THE OTHER THING IM THINKING IS WHAT THEY CALL VFR CORRIDOR THAT RUNS UP THE HUDSON RIVER RIGHT ALONGSIDE THE TWIN TOWERS IT GOES UP THE HUDSON RIVER VFR VISUAL FLIGHT RULE PRIVATE PLANE TYPE THEY CAN GO UP AND DOWN THAT AS LONG AS THEY STAY UNDER 1100 FEET AGL ABOVE GROUND LEVEL SO IM SAYING TO MYSELF THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS SOME LIGHT PLANE BUT IM NEVER THINKING AIRLINER I DONT HEAR THAT AT ALL" http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110208.PDF pgs 18-19 Battalian Chief King cites his experience as a pilot of fixed wing aircraft for his determination there was no jetliner crash into the South Tower. This is 7 |
17th May 2012, 12:10 PM | #175 |
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Dear Jay,
I have taken Minnie up on her challenge as posted earlier: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0&postcount=26 |
17th May 2012, 12:14 PM | #176 |
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You interpreting his belief, not what he saw. Asst. Comm. Gregory is a fire officer, someone who has a career...Need I say more. He says he saw it on teevee. The issue here is what he saw and heard while standing underneath the building with a birdseye view and with a responsibility to be observant and dispassionate at all times, given his rank. If you want to interpret his statement by incorporating his apparent and presumed belief, fine, I have no problem with that. People can believe whatever they choose for as long as they choose. |
17th May 2012, 12:18 PM | #177 |
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Battalian Chief King cannot see through the North Tower, in which he was inside, to see the plane hit the South Tower 1000 feet above his head.
Hey jamms, it seems that he was actually in a Stairwell in the North Tower when the plane hit the South Tower. I gotta tell ya buddy, that is some kind of SPECTACULAR fail. |
17th May 2012, 12:24 PM | #178 |
Great minds think...
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Meanwhile, you are doing the exact same thing with every quote you post. You purposefully take their quotes out of context. Then you throw up the "I do not deal with beliefs" or whatever it is you say. It's like saying, "I'm not racist, but <insert messed up comment about culture>." I enjoy the disclaimer, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.
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17th May 2012, 12:26 PM | #179 |
Penultimate Amazing
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good for you. I'll go back and read the post.
However I was also taking issue with your characterization about debunkers being tied up with flag, patriotism and apple pie. Persons such as yourself seem almost incapable of understanding that many if not most debunkers are on the opposite side of this discussion that you are for reasons thatare completely devoid any political impetus |
17th May 2012, 12:27 PM | #180 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 12:30 PM | #181 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
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17th May 2012, 12:31 PM | #182 |
Great minds think...
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I am sorry if you weren't aware, all quotes that completely go against the point he is trying to make aren't considered. This is the "I win" thread, as SHC is popular for starting. No matter what evidence is shown, quoted and gift wrapped, it doesn't count. Cause "I win."
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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17th May 2012, 12:32 PM | #183 |
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Off topic. I have responded strictly on the topic which you defined. Put simply I seriously doubt that there can be witnesses to the subject of witness credibility....
...and none of the witnesses you source provide evidence on witness credibility. You cannot even stay on topic with your own topic. Since it is your topic maybe you can explain how there could be witnesses relevant to the topic. Sure they do. BUT the topic you defined is "EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE: Are the NO PLANE witnesses better than PLANE SPOTTER witnesses?" where I identified the core issue as credibility. Differences between witnesses are normal and need to be accommodated in the fact determining process. And you have claimed that facts do not need to be rigorously determined for purposes of Internet discussion. A quaint suggestion at best. And I may as well point out the obvious -- you have once again not addressed the key points I made on the topic of "EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE: Are the NO PLANE witnesses better than PLANE SPOTTER witnesses?" I have not been keeping score BUT I think that is the second point you have got right... HINT: Keep agreeing with me and you may get a few more points correct. The topic of credibility of witnesses is not one which lends to "witness sources". You seem to have difficulty separating the procedural aspects which your OP addresses from specific factual issues which are not within the scope of the OP. And I won't be led off topic even though most other members seem happy to follow the derails. |
17th May 2012, 12:33 PM | #184 |
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17th May 2012, 12:41 PM | #185 |
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
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17th May 2012, 12:50 PM | #186 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 01:07 PM | #187 |
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Has anyone else noticed that jammonius seems to have more than one standard for authenticating witnesses?
Using his standard Plane=0 No-plane= 0 Unless we use a time machine, it has to remain this way. |
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17th May 2012, 01:45 PM | #188 |
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17th May 2012, 02:09 PM | #189 |
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Here is another for good measure
Nicholas Scinicariello, 62, of Yorktown Heights, worked for the Port Authority on the 86th floor of Tower One. "I saw the plane come in. My office faces north. I just finished my coffee and I heard my friend say, 'Oh no, oh no.' This plane was coming right at us, then it went up and hit the upper floors. I opened the door to my office. The fire alarms were all going off, the fire doors were jammed because the building had been wracked. I finally made it to one of the stairwells. The lights started to flicker on and off. The stairwells were flooded. Firemen were passing us on the way up." He finally made it to Broadway and lay on a subway grate for a half-hour, sucking in the fresh air. |
17th May 2012, 02:26 PM | #190 |
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Agreed.
Understood but I disagree - which makes me a minority of one and puts you on-side with most members responding. Jammonious cannot even specify the topic he wants to discuss OR discuss the topic he has defined. And going along with his derails into "planes or no planes" only plays into his hands. So I had my three posts of pedantic precision for practice. I tend to count my posting as successful when I get no response to what I said: It either means that I was too clever for the troll; OR That far off target that my post deserved to be ignored. ..and it is a long time since I posted anything "off target" when responding to trolling. |
17th May 2012, 02:41 PM | #191 |
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Plane parts and passenger DNA are not claims, they are physical evidence that has been archived and catalogued.
So what? Why would he see any upon arriving at WTC 1? Flight 11 struck WTC1 head on, dead center and went completely into the building. There were very few parts of AA11 found outside. All the parts found outside the complex were from Flight 175, because it hit WTC 2 on a corner edge, forcing a lot of the debris to fall outside the building's confines. Bull. Fragments of 52 of AA11's 87 passengers and crew and 26 of the 60 on UA175 have been positively identified by comparing the samples to DNA samples provided by the victims families. Most of the IDs were made by the New York City medical examiners office but some of the smaller fragments required help from the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory because they are very experienced in finding damaged remains, extracting testable sequences, and getting results from them. BS. The cause of death of all passengers is known to all. They were murdered in deliberate plane crashes and you have no evidence to the contrary. Deal with it. Why would it? The plane was going fast enough to force it's way into the building. Did you expect it to bounce off and fall down into the street? To my knowledge there is no actual evidence that this is true other than the speculation of a single journalist, although a highly reputable one. If it's true, it would probably be due to the fact that Moussaoui was prone to very violent outbursts and they wouldn't want a situation in court to escalate to the point where he needed to be shot. No, they merely prove that they personally didn't see one. Nothing more, nothing less. They certainly don't invalidate the testimony of thousands who did see them. But I can see the plane coming in right there in your little gif. It's even clear enough to make out the wings. Apparently. And I actually thought the full moon had passed without incident. |
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17th May 2012, 02:47 PM | #192 |
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17th May 2012, 03:06 PM | #193 |
Incromulent Logic
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Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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17th May 2012, 03:10 PM | #194 |
Incromulent Logic
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Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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17th May 2012, 03:24 PM | #195 |
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17th May 2012, 04:41 PM | #196 |
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17th May 2012, 05:16 PM | #197 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th May 2012, 08:59 PM | #198 |
Goddess of Legaltainment™
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Jammonius, I meant it quite sincerely when I wrote: and when I also wrote: Accordingly, I will not respond further to your nonsensical posts in this thread because (a) you appear to be unable and unwilling to stick to the subject matter of your own OP and (b) your subsequent posts are plainly and obviously naught but blatant trolling and entirely unworthy of any further response. |
17th May 2012, 09:12 PM | #199 |
Incromulent Logic
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Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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17th May 2012, 11:11 PM | #200 |
post-pre-born
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