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Old 20th May 2012, 02:39 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
I based my claim on your words...
Oh, hell no, I'm not letting you to "get away" with this.


You've "twisted" the hell out of Dash's words, trying every "trick" you can think of to make those words "say" something they don't...STOP THAT NOW.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:40 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
There are various forms of proper analytic technique. Tornadoes are not daily occurrences, fortunately. Thus, I don't think it is apt to use the analogy you put forward. Jetliners are heard daily by almost all people who live in the developed world and most especially those who live in the urban or more densely populated areas of such countries.

For that reason, the sound of jetliners is more easily understood, recognized and described as such.
What "skill sets" do you possess to make such a determination?

...or is this your "uneducated" opinion?
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:42 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Wait, Dash. I think something has gone wrong here. We already discussed this. I based my claim on your words that were to the effect that I could count you as a no planer, notwithstanding that you were asleep. I thought the basis for that was a recognition that had it been loud as a jetliner should be, it would have awakened you and you would have known it was a jetliner.

I withdraw my inclusion of you as a NO PLANER. I am afraid I misunderstood you and for that I am sorry.
Clearly you've never seen me when I've just woken up, takes me a couple minutes to get my brain into gear. I am a pretty deep sleeper too.



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Old 20th May 2012, 02:42 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
By the same logic, How can you claim someone that thinks they saw/heard a plane didn't?

Wouldn't this logic nullify all the "no-plane" witnesses you now claim?
The short answer is no. Take a look at the recent posts on the issue of "suggestion." In addition, the same observation would apply to those who said they didn't see and didn't hear a jet. Recall that I have designated Battalion Chief Stephen King as the 1st NO PLANER. He argued there was no jet because he didn't hear one. He made his argument in front of other fire officers, on the record, precisely in a context where adherence to the common storyline was expected and all but mandated.

Stephen King is, indeed, a worthy contender as 1st NO PLANER.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:43 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
I wonder what is it that is unclear that I am here relying on general, common experience and common sense?
All of which are provably less reliable than the scientific method. There are plenty of studies on the fallability of "common sense" and eyewitness variation. You are on a forum for skepticism yet refuse to be skeptical.

"Skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal, and science" it says up top there. I will readily concede that your claims fall firmly in the realm of the paranormal.

Quote:
People are readily capable of observing that a jetliner at <1000ft up and traveling at 500+mph is ultra loud. On that claim and on that basis for supporting that claim

I STAND

I also stand on the proposition that more often than not

SENSE OBSERVATION AND DEDUCTION DRAWN FROM THAT OBSERVATION TRUMPS OTHER, MORE REMOTE FORMS OF DEDUCTION.
The scientific method is not "remote", Jammy, and it is provably more reliable and objective than "common sense". The real reason you're not using it is because it contradicts you.

Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Asking me to find the link to the All43 thread is but another, more subtle perhaps, version of 20 questions. Anyone here can look that up.

That said, and in this one instance only; and since I have made mention of the thread, here it is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=175654

Consider this an acknowledgment of the 2 year anniversary of that thread
You...you used several of the exact same videos I linked on the previous page, the ones that clearly show a plane hitting the building.

Dear God.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:44 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
What "skill sets" do you possess to make such a determination?

...or is this your "uneducated" opinion?
Common sense, which apparently trumps everyone else's.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:45 PM   #527
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Later
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:47 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Stephen King is, indeed, a worthy contender as 1st NO PLANER.
BFD...he was mistaken, so what.


That you would take his "word" over actual, physical evidence only demonstrates your EXTREME BIAS.


Your "opinion" simply can not be trusted because of this bias.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:47 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
There are various forms of proper analytic technique. Tornadoes are not daily occurrences, fortunately. Thus, I don't think it is apt to use the analogy you put forward. Jetliners are heard daily by almost all people who live in the developed world and most especially those who live in the urban or more densely populated areas of such countries.

For that reason, the sound of jetliners is more easily understood, recognized and described as such.
But how many airliners do you hear going that fast and low over manhattan on a regular basis?
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:48 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
The short answer is no. Take a look at the recent posts on the issue of "suggestion." In addition, the same observation would apply to those who said they didn't see and didn't hear a jet. Recall that I have designated Battalion Chief Stephen King as the 1st NO PLANER. He argued there was no jet because he didn't hear one. He made his argument in front of other fire officers, on the record, precisely in a context where adherence to the common storyline was expected and all but mandated.

Stephen King is, indeed, a worthy contender as 1st NO PLANER.
Again you lose. Does this person believe there was no plane or are you just interpreting it this way?

You have no first hand proof that any one of these people believe there was no planes. Am I wrong?

If so, post a first hand account of someone saying there was no planes.

Sorry, You are not even close to being as smart as you think you are.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:50 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by 000063 View Post
Common sense, which apparently trumps everyone else's.
If it's "common", it means even less. There are a lot, a lot of seriously disturbed, ignorant people, and they are EVERYWHERE.


I certainly am not so stupid as to "trust" their "sense".
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:53 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
People are readily capable of observing that a jetliner at <1000ft up and traveling at 500+mph is ultra loud.
Can you tell us whether you think "a jetliner at <1000ft up and travelling at 500+mph" would be louder or quieter than the same aircraft taking off heavily laden and with its engines on high power as it climbed towards 1000ft? People who live under the flightpath would dispute that the latter was "ultra loud". Annoying, yes, oppressive, yes, but it doesn't cause hearing damage which was your earlier expectation of something "ultra loud".

Do you have any grasp of how loud something needs to be to cause hearing damage from a few seconds exposure?

No. You don't.
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Old 20th May 2012, 02:53 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
The very same reason the towers look like solid grey pillars with no windows in this image of yours:




Distance, insufficient detail in the initial recording device, and loss of detail due to video compression.
4 new stations aired a floating orb that would have impacted the west side of tower 2 if it didn't turn right and left around it. It apparently did just that and wnbc acknowledged that it got between the towers along with countless witnesses who described something circling right before the explosion. It wasn't a plane of any kind. It was simply an orb.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:00 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
4 new stations aired a floating orb that would have impacted the west side of tower 2 if it didn't turn right and left around it. It apparently did just that and wnbc acknowledged that it got between the towers along with countless witnesses who described something circling right before the explosion. It wasn't a plane of any kind. It was simply an orb.
Nope...your "assertion" is simply that, an ignorant assertion based on your total belief in the "conspiracy" of 911...


That disqualifies you...so sorry, charlie.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:02 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Jack,

With all due respect, you are not up to speed. A video where you can do that is linked in the OP.
Youtube link in the OP does not work for me.
Quote:
We've had a thread in this forum containing 3875 posts on the subject of comparing the 43 then known video versions of the South Tower explosion. If necessary, I can find the link for you. It might already have been linked by Elmundo, I think. Key words from its title are "All43 videos".
So instead of explaining whatever you think the actual inconsistencies are between various videos, you just direct me to a thread nearly 4,000 post long and claim the information is hidden in there somewhere. Well, thanks for nothing.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:03 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
4 new stations aired a floating orb that would have impacted the west side of tower 2 if it didn't turn right and left around it. It apparently did just that and wnbc acknowledged that it got between the towers along with countless witnesses who described something circling right before the explosion. It wasn't a plane of any kind. It was simply an orb.
Oh NOES not the Orb!

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Old 20th May 2012, 03:05 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Neither do the majority of jammy's "no-planers".
Cloud didn't see a plane and was looking right at the towers. So didn't the jewish photographer. Both looking right at the towers and gave an honest account. NO PLANE.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:07 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Cloud didn't see a plane and was looking right at the towers. So didn't the jewish photographer. Both looking right at the towers and gave an honest account. NO PLANE.
What the hell is it with the cloud and the jew thing?
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:08 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by Dash80 View Post
Oh NOES not the Orb!

Honest question, which of course you won't answer. How would you convince someone that an orb was a plane with me explaining to them that it's clearly not? You can't answer because that would require you to delve into the details which aren't in your favor.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:08 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Cloud didn't see a plane and was looking right at the towers. So didn't the jewish photographer. Both looking right at the towers and gave an honest account. NO PLANE.
Are they available for "cross-examination"?...no??...


So sorry, argument not accepted.



Also...do you think something is "funny" about the death of thousands?....no?...

Then stop posting that god damn
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:09 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Honest question, which of course you won't answer. How would you convince someone that an orb was a plane with me explaining to them that it's clearly not? You can't answer because that would require you to delve into the details which aren't in your favor.
delete
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:09 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Sorry...not an argument.



Will you be presenting an argument today?, or are you just going to keep posing insulting, irrelevant garbage?
The media already proved that something circled the south tower in the final seconds, which wasn't a plane. You don't have any answer for that, so you post nonsense.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:09 PM   #543
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I wonder why none of these people needed medical care for hearing damage?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


or these people?

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Old 20th May 2012, 03:10 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Honest question, which of course you won't answer. How would you convince someone that an orb was a plane with me explaining to them that it's clearly not? You can't answer because that would require you to delve into the details which aren't in your favor.
Irrational question not worthy of an answer.

Will you be presenting an argument today?....we're waiting...
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:11 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
The media already proved that something circled the south tower in the final seconds, which wasn't a plane. You don't have any answer for that, so you post nonsense.
All I am doing is awaiting a rational response from you...it doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:11 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Honest question, which of course you won't answer. How would you convince someone that an orb was a plane with me explaining to them that it's clearly not? You can't answer because that would require you to delve into the details which aren't in your favor.
I didn't ask you a question, I was LAUGHING AT YOU.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:12 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Irrational question not worthy of an answer.

Will you be presenting an argument today?....we're waiting...
Okay. So, you'd avoid facts in a trial by taking a pass on trying to challenge facts derived from video? I made a claim by showing video. You could not prove that a plane circled the towers because an orb did.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:12 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
So, you would post the orb and call it a plane? We'd laugh in your face.
Stop making 911 a joke...there is nothing "funny" about the death of thousands.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:13 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
So, you would post the orb and call it a plane? We'd laugh in your face.
You caught my post before I actually read your nonsense question.

If I had to prove an "orb". I'd blur the known video as much as I could and hope no one catches on. I would also not make known my real name.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:14 PM   #550
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Okay. So, you'd avoid facts in a trial by taking a pass on trying to challenge facts derived from video? I made a claim by showing video. You could not prove that a plane circled the towers because an orb did.
So sorry, but your bias precludes you from making any such determination.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:14 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
...
But the interesting thing here is that based on your location, as you mapped it out, I wonder if there is any significance at all in your descriptor of "roaring sound" as being the way you described what you heard, versus "a jet aircraft sound" that you might also have used, presumably if that is what it sounded like to you.

Blessings
So now not only it wasn't planes, it was lions, tigers and bears? Oh my!
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:15 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
You caught my post before I actually read your nonsense question.

If I had to prove an "orb". I'd blur the known video as much as I could and hope no one catches on. I would also bot make known my real name.
You don't have to prove an orb's an orb, but that an orb was a plane. How would you do that?
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:16 PM   #553
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7forever, show us the blurry towers again. LOL! Or you could do as you were told and post some hi-rez video which will prove your point, right?
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:16 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
So sorry, but your bias precludes you from making any such determination.
Oh, and you don't have bias...puleeeze. Any finder of fact has bias, especially prosecutors and defense attorneys.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:17 PM   #555
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You don't have to prove an orb's an orb, but that an orb was a plane.
No...we don't have to do anything of the sort.


When did all these 911 "goofballs" get the idea that they somehow decide what criteria must be followed....talk about misplaced hubris.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:18 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Oh, and you don't have bias...puleeeze. Any finder of fact has bias, especially prosecutors and defense attorneys.
I am neither...sorry, but nonresponse is not an argument.


I will ask again...will you be making a rational argument today?, or is it "safe" to ignore you for the rest of the day?
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:21 PM   #557
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
I am neither...sorry, but nonresponse is not an argument.


I will ask again...will you be making a rational argument today?, or is it "safe" to ignore you for the rest of the day?
I don't need an argument, just the news broadcasts that don't show a plane, but an unknown object that was absurdly called a plane.
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:23 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
How so? I am stating a visual fact from 4 tv broadcasts. It was NOT a plane because it was smaller than a chopper and coming from west.
Misrepresentation of actual facts...not a rational argument....DENIED
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:23 PM   #559
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Let's debate it then? You are laughing at how absurd the idea of planes is, and how you'll never have to do anything but troll.
Hurry 7forever, before you're banned. Post your blurry towers again, that always makes me laugh!
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Old 20th May 2012, 03:24 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Cloud didn't see a plane and was looking right at the towers. So didn't the jewish photographer. Both looking right at the towers and gave an honest account. NO PLANE.
How many did see a plane?

Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Honest question, which of course you won't answer. How would you convince someone that an orb was a plane with me explaining to them that it's clearly not? You can't answer because that would require you to delve into the details which aren't in your favor.
Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
The media already proved that something circled the south tower in the final seconds, which wasn't a plane. You don't have any answer for that, so you post nonsense.
So when are you going to answer that post of mine with the CNN video clearly showing a plane? #472. It's certainly a news broadcast.
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