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Old 19th May 2012, 07:17 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by WTC Dust View Post
Do you have something else you could do with your time?
Can't you account for the real planes?
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Old 19th May 2012, 07:27 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by WTC Dust View Post
Do you have something else you could do with your time?
I lol'd
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:11 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammonius
I am not here challenging the veracity of the account. I am making an attempt to interpret what the witness says solely on the basis of the plain meaning of the words used. That is what I do for all witnesses. I am not seeking to interpret the words favorably or unfavorably to a NO PLANE claim or a PLANE SPOTTER claim.
North tower witnesses
PAPD Sgt William Ross - "I observed a commercial passenger jet flying over at an extremely low altitude, and heading south. ..."just east of the Empire State Building, and, to my best estimation, no higher than 500' above it."...." The landing gear was up and the doors that house the gear closed. The plane was, as I stated, traveling south and was moving at a high rate of speed. It was flying level and straight. The pilot did not appear to be fighting to maintain control of the aircraft."

Patrick McNerney agrees:
"While there we observed a large plane flying south over Manhattan. We were surprised at how low and the direction of the plane. We discussed the plane and then moments later all police officers were ordered to the police desk and advised us of the situation"

Andrew Lenney - "It was coming down the Hudson. It was banking toward me. I saw the tops of both wings," . "It was turning to make sure it hit the intended target. It plowed in about 20 stories down dead center into the north face of the building."

FDNY EMT Ralph "Hank" Ramos - "We were returning back there from Battalion 4 and we were going up, I believe it's Pearl Street, and my partner Alex Loutsky and I, we witnessed the first plane hit the first tower. Saw it flying low and we thought, that plane's flying kind of low, and then it hit the building and we went over the radio and we told central that we had witnessed a plane hitting the building, and at first she didn't believe us, but then other units started saying they saw the same thing and then we proceeded straight over to the Trade Center. "

FDNY firefighter Joseph Casaliggi - "On the morning of September 11th we were operating a box up on Church Street Near Canal. There was an odor of gas in the area. While we were out operating, we heard the first plane coming in. I turned around and I watched the plane crash into the north tower.


South tower witnesses

FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro - "At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. We stepped over small airplane aviation parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at the building."

FDNY lieutanent Murray Murad - "No sooner did I run downstairs and look up, than I saw the second plane strike the south tower."

Scott Holowach - "I saw it" - "wings turned" - "Chief, I witnessed it" - "100% sure"

Quote:
Scott Holowach - "wings turned"
..............and of course there are many more

Now judging purely on the basis of the words of these witnesses one simply must conclude that an aircraft did indeed crash into each tower.

Of course if one is not judging them on the basis of the words of the witnesses but instead using a personal interpretation of what the witnesses said then one could twist a distort them to mean anything one wished them to say. However jammonious ensures us that he is "making an attempt to interpret what the witness says solely on the basis of the plain meaning of the words used".

Last edited by jaydeehess; 19th May 2012 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:29 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post

..............and of course there are many more

Now judging purely on the basis of the words of these witnesses one simply must conclude that an aircraft did indeed crash into each tower.

Of course if one is not judging them on the basis of the words of the witnesses but instead using a personal interpretation of what the witnesses said then one could twist a distort them to mean anything one wished them to say. However jammonious ensures us that he is "making an attempt to interpret what the witness says solely on the basis of the plain meaning of the words used".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammonius
I am not here challenging the veracity of the account. I am making an attempt to interpret what the witness says solely on the basis of the plain meaning of the words used. That is what I do for all witnesses. I am not seeking to interpret the words favorably or unfavorably to a NO PLANE claim or a PLANE SPOTTER claim.
Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Speaking just for me, I do not think the Benjamin account is all that credible for a variety of technical reasons, starting with his calculation he saw the plane when it was "3-4 miles out". I don't think that is credible. I think he made that up.
The troofer troll is also a liar.
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Old 19th May 2012, 11:54 AM   #325
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I prefer incorrect, or hypocritical.
Jammonius claims to be judging solely on the baasis of the exact words of the witness then claims witnesses were wrong if it suits him, and inthe example you cite, that the witness is not merely incorrect but actually lying.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 19th May 2012 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:17 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Can't you account for the real planes?
Can you post a single plane image from 911 footage with markings?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:21 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Okay, I ran to the grocery store and pet store and while I was gone you added nothing of value. It's odd that you would complain about how I spend my time when you have yet to add anything of value or even present an idea worth of taking the time to tear apart.
Okay, you ran to the grocery store and pet store and while gone were thinking about this thread. It's not odd that you nor anyone can post a single image that depicts anything but blobs and very fake looking imagery. You will never provide anything of value or even present an idea worth more than a real sleuth mocking you.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:26 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Can't you account for the real planes?
Do you have something else you could do with your time besides not providing a speck of credible evidence that real planes impacted the twin towers. I am so good, I can steal other posters posts.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:26 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Can you post a single plane image from 911 footage with markings?
Well actually it's a little hard to make out logos on planes roaring past at over 500mph but by all means do try this and let us know how it goes. Using 2001 cameras or less by the way.

However you can make out the admittedly blurry UA logo on United 175's tail.

This wouldn't prove anything though because if you're a no planer sticking a logo on to a cgi/hologram plane would be easy right?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:30 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Maybe if you could account for why no ledgible images of planes exist, then you'd have to something but until then, no planes hit either tower.
Unexplained "expectation" that there should be (ledgible?) images, noted...and discarded as irrelevant.


Quote:
Right now, you just don't have anything worth more than simply being mocked.
Perhaps you have mistaken this thread for another, because the only one I see being "mocked", is dusty...

Last edited by R.A.F.; 19th May 2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:33 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You've done nothing to consider anything. Maybe if you could account for why no ledgible images of planes exist, then you'd have to something but until then, no planes hit either tower. Right now, you just don't have anything worth more than simply being mocked.
And you, chief, do nothing more than mocking the victims:

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11

CREW

Barbara Arestegui, 38, Marstons Mills, Massachusetts
Jeffrey Collman, 41, Novato, Calif.
Sara Low, 28, Batesville, Arkansas
Karen A. Martin, 40, Danvers, Mass.
First Officer Thomas McGuinness, 42, Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Kathleen Nicosia, 54, Winthrop, Mass.
John Ogonowski, 52, Dracut, Massachusetts
Betty Ong, 45, Andover, Massachusetts
Jean Roger, 24, Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Dianne Snyder, 42, Westport, Massachusetts
Madeline Sweeney, 35, Acton, Massachusetts

PASSENGERS

Anna Williams Allison, 48, Stoneham, Massachusetts
David Angell, 54, Pasadena, California
Lynn Angell, 45, Pasadena, California
Seima Aoyama, 48, Culver City, Calif.
Myra Aronson, 52, Charlestown, Massachusetts
Christine Barbuto, 32, Brookline, Massachusetts
Carolyn Beug, 48, Los Angeles, California
Kelly Ann Booms, 24, Brookline, Mass.
Carol Bouchard, 43, Warwick, Rhode Island
Neilie Anne Heffernan Casey, 32, Wellesley, Massachusetts
Jeffrey Coombs, 42, Abington, Massachusetts
Tara Creamer, 30, Worcester, Massachusetts
Thelma Cuccinello, 71, Wilmot, New Hampshire
Patrick Currivan, 52, Winchester, Mass.
Brian Dale, 43, Warren, New Jersey
David DiMeglio, 22, Wakefield, Mass.
Donald Americo DiTullio, 49, Peabody, Mass.
Albert Dominguez, 66, Sydney, Australia
Paige Farley-Hackel, 46, Newton, Mass.
Alex Filipov, 70, Concord, Massachusetts
Carol Flyzik, 40, Plaistow, N.H.
Paul Friedman, 45, Belmont, Massachusetts
Karleton D.B. Fyfe, 31, Brookline, Massachusetts
Peter Gay, 54, Tewksbury, Massachusetts
Linda George, 27, Westboro, Massachusetts
Edmund Glazer, 41, Los Angeles, California
Lisa Fenn Gordenstein, 41, Needham, Massachusetts
Andrew Peter Charles Curry Green, 34, Santa Monica, Calif.
Peter Hashem, 40, Tewksbury, Massachusetts
Robert Hayes, 37, from Amesbury, Massachusetts
Edward (Ted) R. Hennessy, 35, Belmont, Mass.
John A. Hofer, 45, Los Angeles, Calif.
Cora Hidalgo Holland, 52, of Sudbury, Massachusetts
Nicholas Humber, 60, of Newton, Massachusetts,
Waleed Iskandar, 34, London, England
John Charles Jenkins, 45, Cambridge, Mass.
Charles Edward Jones, 48, Bedford, Mass.
Robin Kaplan, 33, Westboro, Massachusetts
Barbara Keating, 72, Palm Springs, Calif.
David P. Kovalcin, 42, Hudson, New Hampshire
Judy Larocque, 50, Framingham, Mass.
Natalie Janis Lasden, 46, Peabody, Mass.
Daniel John Lee, 34, Van Nuys, Calif.
Daniel C. Lewin, 31, Charlestown, Mass.
Susan A. MacKay, 44, Westford, Massachusetts
Christopher D. Mello, 25, Boston, Mass.
Jeff Mladenik, 43, Hinsdale, Illinois
Antonio Jesus Montoya Valdes, 46, East Boston, Mass.
Carlos Alberto Montoya, 36, Bellmont, Mass.
Laura Lee Morabito, 34, Framingham, Massachusetts
Mildred Rose Naiman, 81, Andover, Mass.
Laurie Ann Neira, 48, Los Angeles, Calif.
Renee Newell, 37, of Cranston, Rhode Island
Jacqueline J. Norton, 61, Lubec, Maine
Robert Grant Norton, 85, Lubec, Maine
Jane M. Orth, 49, Haverhill, Mass.
Thomas Pecorelli, 31, of Los Angeles, California
Berinthia Berenson Perkins, 53, Los Angeles, Calif.
Sonia Morales Puopolo, 58, of Dover, Massachusetts
David E. Retik, 33, Needham, Mass.
Philip M. Rosenzweig, 47, Acton, Mass.
Richard Ross, 58, Newton, Massachusetts
Jessica Sachs, 22, Billerica, Massachusetts
Rahma Salie, 28, Boston, Mass.
Heather Lee Smith, 30, Boston, Mass.
Douglas J. Stone, 54, Dover, N.H
Xavier Suarez, 41, Chino Hills, Calif.
Michael Theodoridis, 32, Boston, Mass.
James Trentini, 65, Everett, Massachusetts
Mary Trentini, 67, Everett, Massachusetts
Pendyala Vamsikrishna, 30, Los Angeles, Calif.
Mary Wahlstrom, 78, Kaysville, Utah
Kenneth Waldie, 46, Methuen, Massachusetts
John Wenckus, 46, Torrance, Calif.
Candace Lee Williams, 20, Danbury, Conn.
Christopher Zarba, 47, Hopkinton, Massachusetts

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175

CREW

Robert Fangman, 33, Claymont, Del.
Michael R. Horrocks, 38, Glen Mills, Pa.
Amy N. Jarret, 28, North Smithfield, R.I.
Amy R. King, 29, Stafford Springs, Conn.
Kathryn L. LaBorie, 44, Providence, R.I.
Alfred Gilles Padre Joseph Marchand, 44, Alamogordo, N.M.
Capt. Victor Saracini, 51, Lower Makefield Township, Pa.
Michael C. Tarrou, 38, Stafford Springs, Conn.
Alicia Nicole Titus, 28, San Francisco, Calif.

PASSENGERS

Alona Avraham, 30, Asdod, Israel.
Garnet Edward (Ace) Bailey, 54, Lynnfield, Mass.
Mark Bavis, 31, West Newton, Mass.
Graham Andrew Berkeley, 37, Boston, Mass.
Touri Bolourchi, 69, Beverly Hills, Calif.
Klaus Bothe, 31, Linkenheim, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany
Daniel R. Brandhorst, 41, Los Angeles, Calif
David Reed Gamboa Brandhorst, 3, Los Angeles, Calif.
John Brett Cahill, 56, Wellesley, Mass.
Christoffer Carstanjen, 33, Turner Falls, Mass.
John (Jay) J. Corcoran, 43, Norwell, Mass
Dorothy Alma DeAraujo, 80, Long Beach, Calif.
Ana Gloria Pocasangre de Barrera, 49, San Salvador, El Salvador
Lisa Frost, 22, Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.
Ronald Gamboa, 33, Los Angeles, Calif.
Lynn Catherine Goodchild, 25, Attleboro, Mass.
Peter Morgan Goodrich, 33, Sudbury, Mass.
Douglas A. Gowell, 52, Methuen, Mass.
The Rev. Francis E. Grogan, 76, of Easton, Mass.
Carl Max Hammond, 37, Derry, N.H.
Peter Hanson, 32, Groton, Mass.
Sue Kim Hanson, 35, Groton, Mass.
Christine Lee Hanson, 2, Groton, Mass.
Gerald F. Hardacre, 61, Carlsbad, Calif.
Eric Samadikan Hartono, 20, Boston, Mass.
James E. Hayden, 47, Westford, Mass.
Herbert W. Homer, 48, Milford, Mass.
Robert Adrien Jalbert, 61, Swampscott, Mass.
Ralph Francis Kershaw, 52, Manchester-by-the-Sea, Mass.
Heinrich Kimmig, 43, Willstaett, Germany
Brian Kinney, 29, Lowell, Mass.
Robert George LeBlanc, 70, Lee, N.H.
Maclovio Lopez, Jr., 41, Norwalk, Calif.
Marianne MacFarlane, MacFarlane, 34, Revere, Mass.
Louis Neil Mariani, 59, Derry, N.H.
Juliana Valentine McCourt, 4, New London, Conn.
Ruth Magdaline McCourt, 45, New London, Conn.
Wolfgang Peter Menzel, 59, Wilhelmshaven, Germany
Shawn M. Nassaney, 25, Pawtucket, R.I.
Marie Pappalardo, 53, Paramount, Calif.
Patrick Quigley, 40, of Wellesley, Mass.
Frederick Charles Rimmele, 32, Marblehead, Mass.
James M. Roux, 43, Portland, Maine
Jesus Sanchez, 45, Hudson, Mass.
Mary Kathleen Shearer, 61, Dover, N.H.
Robert Michael Shearer, 63, Dover, N.H.
Jane Louise Simpkin, 36, Wayland, Mass.
Brian D. Sweeney, 38, Barnstable, Mass.
Timothy Ward, 38, San Diego, Calif.
William M. Weems, 46, Marblehead, Mass.

Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/911/aa11.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/911/ua175.htm
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:36 PM   #332
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all these people are liars then 7forever?
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
North tower witnesses
PAPD Sgt William Ross - "I observed a commercial passenger jet flying over at an extremely low altitude, and heading south. ..."just east of the Empire State Building, and, to my best estimation, no higher than 500' above it."...." The landing gear was up and the doors that house the gear closed. The plane was, as I stated, traveling south and was moving at a high rate of speed. It was flying level and straight. The pilot did not appear to be fighting to maintain control of the aircraft."

Patrick McNerney agrees:
"While there we observed a large plane flying south over Manhattan. We were surprised at how low and the direction of the plane. We discussed the plane and then moments later all police officers were ordered to the police desk and advised us of the situation"

Andrew Lenney - "It was coming down the Hudson. It was banking toward me. I saw the tops of both wings," . "It was turning to make sure it hit the intended target. It plowed in about 20 stories down dead center into the north face of the building."

FDNY EMT Ralph "Hank" Ramos - "We were returning back there from Battalion 4 and we were going up, I believe it's Pearl Street, and my partner Alex Loutsky and I, we witnessed the first plane hit the first tower. Saw it flying low and we thought, that plane's flying kind of low, and then it hit the building and we went over the radio and we told central that we had witnessed a plane hitting the building, and at first she didn't believe us, but then other units started saying they saw the same thing and then we proceeded straight over to the Trade Center. "

FDNY firefighter Joseph Casaliggi - "On the morning of September 11th we were operating a box up on Church Street Near Canal. There was an odor of gas in the area. While we were out operating, we heard the first plane coming in. I turned around and I watched the plane crash into the north tower.


South tower witnesses

FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro - "At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. We stepped over small airplane aviation parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at the building."

FDNY lieutanent Murray Murad - "No sooner did I run downstairs and look up, than I saw the second plane strike the south tower."

Scott Holowach - "I saw it" - "wings turned" - "Chief, I witnessed it" - "100% sure"


..............and of course there are many more

Now judging purely on the basis of the words of these witnesses one simply must conclude that an aircraft did indeed crash into each tower.

Of course if one is not judging them on the basis of the words of the witnesses but instead using a personal interpretation of what the witnesses said then one could twist a distort them to mean anything one wished them to say. However jammonious ensures us that he is "making an attempt to interpret what the witness says solely on the basis of the plain meaning of the words used".
Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You've done nothing to consider anything. Maybe if you could account for why no ledgible images of planes exist, then you'd have to something but until then, no planes hit either tower. Right now, you just don't have anything worth more than simply being mocked.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:36 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Unexplained "expectation" that there should be (ledgible?) images, noted...and discarded as irrelevant.




Perhaps you have mistaken this thread for another, because the only one I see being "mocked", is dusty...
Show a single image that can be verified as a boeing. You'd have to do that in the real world. The government never proved their stupid theories. It was sold to the world by the media.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:37 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
all these people are liars then 7forever?
It doesn't matter. Only that a verifiable plane cannot be shown for either tower.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:38 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
It doesn't matter. Only that a verifiable plane cannot be shown for either tower.
Oops! I think you meant to post in this thread.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:38 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Dash80 View Post
Well actually it's a little hard to make out logos on planes roaring past at over 500mph but by all means do try this and let us know how it goes. Using 2001 cameras or less by the way.

However you can make out the admittedly blurry UA logo on United 175's tail.

This wouldn't prove anything though because if you're a no planer sticking a logo on to a cgi/hologram plane would be easy right?
You would have to prove that the distances all these images were taken from could somehow depict black blobs with real planes. You couldn't do this because it's not possible.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:41 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Show a single image that can be verified as a boeing. You'd have to do that in the real world. The government never proved their stupid theories. It was sold to the world by the media.
There are plenty, have you not seen them? They were undoubtedly Boeings. A piece of UA 175 found had part of it's tail number on it. Oh but that was planted right? By... monkeys? lemmings? Who?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:41 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Oops! I think you meant to post in this thread.
What are you talking about? You cannot show a boeing for either tower, because not one exists, because they didn't try to create real looking planes.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:42 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Dash80 View Post
There are plenty, have you not seen them? They were undoubtedly Boeings. A piece of UA 175 found had part of it's tail number on it. Oh but that was planted right? By... monkeys? lemmings? Who?
Post one, spanky, next to a real boeing. You have the burden of proving the lie that real planes were recorded on 911.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:43 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
What are you talking about? You cannot show a boeing for either tower, because not one exists, because they didn't try to create real looking planes.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:44 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You would have to prove...
Sorry...burden of proof...it's all yours.

We don't have to prove anything...because you are the one making the claim.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:46 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You would have to prove that the distances all these images were taken from could somehow depict black blobs with real planes. You couldn't do this because it's not possible.
I saw a plane, not a blob. Along with many other people, whose witness accounts are right here Are we lying? Did we really see a "blob?"
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:46 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
"I saw it" - "wings turned" - "Chief, I witnessed it" - "100% sure"

but according to jammonious, who does not wish to challenge the veracity of any account and only wishes to interpret what witnesses say on the plain meaning of their own words, this is not an eyewitness to actual impact of the aircraft.
There's the plane.

Anything else?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:46 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by swright777 View Post
He missed the real Boeing that is shown in that video. The same one that is also shown in many other videos. You know, the one that hit the tower.
He missed nothing that is shown in that video because it's a blob that was added before the evening news. The same one that is also shown in many other videos. You know, the one that didn't hit the tower.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:47 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Okay, you ran to the grocery store and pet store and while gone were thinking about this thread. It's not odd that you nor anyone can post a single image that depicts anything but blobs and very fake looking imagery. You will never provide anything of value or even present an idea worth more than a real sleuth mocking you.
Evidently you missed the photo in post #376 which clearly shows an aircraft flying toward the south tower. The fact that you will call it a blob, an orb, or whatever else you decide proves only one thing. You are blind.

Oh, BTW, do you ever plan on posting anything of value in this thread?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:48 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by swright777 View Post
So someone added a black blob to the copy of the video he turned in? Then just get him to show the original, sans black blob.
someone added a black blob to the copy of the video he turned over to whomever. Unless you can prove a blob is a plane, of course.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:48 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
You have the burden of proving the lie that real planes were recorded on 911.
Sorry, but you are in error.

If the rest of your "understanding" of how science "works" is as flawed as this, then this discussion is just about over...for you.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:49 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by fess View Post
Evidently you missed the photo in post #376 which clearly shows an aircraft flying toward the south tower. The fact that you will call it a blob, an orb, or whatever else you decide proves only one thing. You are blind.

Oh, BTW, do you ever plan on posting anything of value in this thread?
Post any image from 911 next to a real boeing. Until you have one that shows markings, YOU HAVE NOTHING.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:51 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Sorry, but you are in error.

If the rest of your "understanding" of how science "works" is as flawed as this, then this discussion is just about over...for you.
Until you can verify fake evidence as somehow real, you have nothing.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:51 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Post any image from 911 next to a real boeing. Until you have one that shows markings, YOU HAVE NOTHING.
Well, troll, until you explain what happened to the passengers and crew of AA11 and UA175, YOU HAVE NOTHING
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:51 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
"I saw it" - "wings turned" - "Chief, I witnessed it" - "100% sure"

but according to jammonious, who does not wish to challenge the veracity of any account and only wishes to interpret what witnesses say on the plain meaning of their own words, this is not an eyewitness to actual impact of the aircraft.
jaddeehess,

Once again, you are using a witness that was put into the OP. I posted the OP. I think about as much advantage as can be gotten from that witness has already occurred. The advantage that was taken of him consisted in LashL making a huge,great,large,supendously insightful claim that I had transgressed 5 and maybe all 7 of the "deadly sins" by using the word "right next" instead of "behind" in my description of what I think is the most important part of his statement; and, the sin of thinking that most important part is the dialogue between Holowach and Ganci and not Holowach plane spotting claim.

What LashL did not consider is that there is no way of knowing who had the better vantage point, Ganci or Holowach? The point is, not whether "right next" is the same or not as "behind" the point is, they were both at the command center on West Street between Liberty and Albany, right in front of the South Tower, with a birdseye view of it.

Separate and apart from all of that, it bears repeating:

I am the one who posted up the witness and his account.

I only claim that Chief Ganci is a NO PLANE witness. It is not up to me to find PLANE SPOTTER witnesses. But, I did give you Holowach and I did so in post # 1.

There are witnesses who claim to have seen a plane, some say large, some say small and/or some other flying object, like missile, to name one example of what witnesses say.

I have said that, for me, Ganci is more credible than Holowach.

It is important to mention, as well, that Holowach and Ganci are in the same vicinity, at or near the command center, as was Asst. Commn. Gregory.

All three are very important as witnesses because their location is known, there purpose in being there is known, their statements were taken in a formal setting where they were obliged to speak truthfully, factually and unemotionally.

These are valid witnesses. Of the three, two are NO PLANERS and one is a PLANE SPOTTER.

The odds are against you.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:51 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Post any image from 911 next to a real boeing. Until you have one that shows markings, YOU HAVE NOTHING.
Except the picture posted it this thread of the plane about to hit the tower. The one you keep running from.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:52 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Well, troll, until you explain what happened to the passengers and crew of AA11 and UA175, YOU HAVE NOTHING
Well, troll, until you can prove planes, nothing else is even on the table...in the real world of course.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:53 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
Except the picture posted it this thread of the plane about to hit the tower. The one you keep running from.
The one you won't post next to a real boeing.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:53 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Unexplained "expectation" that there should be (ledgible?) images, noted...and discarded as irrelevant.




Perhaps you have mistaken this thread for another, because the only one I see being "mocked", is dusty...
Well 7 is certainly making itself available for 'mocking'
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:54 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
What are you talking about? You cannot show a boeing for either tower, because not one exists, they didn't try to create real looking planes.
I'm sure Boeing would be very surprised to hear their planes do not exist, have you informed them of this?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:54 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Well, troll, until you can prove planes, nothing else is even on the table...in the real world of course.
The planes were there, lots of people saw them, no need for any proof.
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:54 PM   #358
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I see jammy is still running from the list of dozens of witnesses that has been posted my multiple people. What are you afraid of?
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:55 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Well, troll, until you can prove planes, nothing else is even on the table...in the real world of course.
So, the pictures of the plane you posted are no good, why? Do you need HD images of the left front door manufactures ID tag?

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Old 19th May 2012, 01:55 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
The odds are against you.
Odds are irrelevant....evidence is not. Face it, you have none for your claims....
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