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Tags donald trump , impeachment , Trump controversies

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Old 10th November 2019, 10:47 AM   #121
phiwum
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is a difference between illegal and criminal. Obviously, Trump lying in itself is not illegal. But his "reasons" is pure defamation which IS ILLEGAL.
Surely, defamation is a civil matter. I presumed that Zaganza and you were talking about a criminal offense.

I'm not denying that the ambassador could make a civil case. I don't know how easy it would be.
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Old 10th November 2019, 01:32 PM   #122
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There is strong indication that she was recalled to keep the Rudy Rigamarole secret. That isn't a legitimate reason to remove her.
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Old 10th November 2019, 01:37 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is strong indication that she was recalled to keep the Rudy Rigamarole secret. That isn't a legitimate reason to remove her.
I didn't say that Trump had a legitimate reason. I was merely asking about why you thought it was illegal.

Presidents can fire underlings for reasons you and I would call illegitimate without breaking any law.

Honestly, I wasn't planning on an argument. I was simply asking what law you thought he violated, but at this point I think you exaggerated the situation. If Trump did anything illegal when removing the ambassador, I still don't know what it was.

ETA: Splitting hairs here, but I don't think it was about keeping Rudy's shenanigans secret so much. From what I hear, her removal was more due to the fact that Rudy's buddies wanted him gone. If so, all it would take is some words to Trump so that the president would think she's bad (about the extent of his political nuance) and want her gone. And the president thinking someone is bad without good reason is a legal motive to remove that person, far as I can tell.

Last edited by phiwum; 10th November 2019 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:01 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post

Is "lying about the reason for termination" a crime?
Only if done under oath, which Trump has scrupulously avoided.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:06 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Again you are misunderstanding what is being said, wither because you aren't really listening, or because you are deliberately twisting what is said.

It is not "Crimes of Office" but rather "crimes against the office." It also means that some things would be unenforceable against a sitting president, but entirely enforceable once they were no longer in office. And none of those would be the case for crimes committed in office because that is a breath of the office's oath to uphold law and defend the Constitution, and thus a crime against the office.

The only cases where they would be "immune" while in office would be where they were alleged to have committed a crime prior to running for that office.
Yep hence the whole idea that all past criminality is in no way relevant to impeachment. I disagree with this in its entirety.

Quote:
Should a President who has done nothing discernibly wrong during his time in office, and has popular policies and actions that have been benefiting the Country, be impeached over alleged wrong doing 10 years before he became President?
That is for the senate to decide on.
Quote:
Also another thing to consider. How would a successful Impeachment and Removal colour the Jury for a Trial? How about a failed Impeachment or Removal? Is it even possible for a fair trial to be held after an Impeachment?
Important considerations but hardly totally unheard of for high profile cases to get such issues. How do we end the news about such crimes to prevent these things?
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:06 AM   #126
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You'll have to drag Trump kicking and screaming (probably figuratively, possibly literally) into saying anything under oath.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:07 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So if the allegations are serious enough they should be kicked out?

How about if the accusation is that he took kickbacks from a foreign Government when in business 10 years previously, but the accusers all have something to gain politically from his removal?
What does the evidence say?
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:44 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You'll have to drag Trump kicking and screaming (probably figuratively, possibly literally) into saying anything under oath.
I'm not so sure. Trump is such a narcissist and so unconcerned with difference between true and false, I think his lawyers might have a hard time keeping him from speaking under oath.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:59 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by leonAzul View Post
Only if done under oath, which Trump has scrupulously avoided.
I wonder if lying, not while under oath, can be a crime if said lying obstructs justice in a material way.
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Old 11th November 2019, 11:24 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I wonder if lying, not while under oath, can be a crime if said lying obstructs justice in a material way.
Sure lying to investigators, see scooter Libby.
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Old 11th November 2019, 12:05 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
So, how many people here were on board with the left for the whole 2.5 years of the Russia Hoax?
I really think you should stop watching Fox News and Infowars.

Every intelligence agency in the US and its allies agrees that the Russian interference has taken place, and Mueller, himself a Republican, wrote a report that shows that Trump and his entourage were more than happy to help them and cover their tracks.

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that only basement-dwelling conspiracy theorists were not privvy to.
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Old 11th November 2019, 12:07 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's really absurd that Brooklyn can with a straight face suggest that Russia investigation was a hoax. What has become increasingly clear is Trump is a puppet of Putin and Russia. Trump has his nose so far up Putin's ass he can taste what Putin had for breakfast.
The previous day's breakfast, anyway.
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Old 11th November 2019, 12:22 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Sure lying to investigators, see scooter Libby.
Similar to filing a false police report. A crime, though the report is not sworn.
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