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7th April 2009, 09:04 PM | #841 |
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7th April 2009, 09:07 PM | #842 |
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I dunno, TAM... part of me is sympathetic to that line of pursuit. But the rest of me believes that it's not our burden to prove what it ultimately is. Rather, it's enough to illustrate what it isn't, and point out the fact that their own data shows it's not.
What I was also trying to do was snap people's focus away from deeper and deeper minituae. It's all too possible to fall into a can't-see-forest-for-the-trees trap, and that allows lurkers (and some participants) to walk away believing there's general uncertainty in the overall assertion against thermite when in fact there was only specific debate over whether it's paint, what kind of paint could it have been, yadda yadda... does that make sense? Right now, I feel that unless it's done with specificity (like what Sunstealer was doing), the issue of it being paint seems to be more a distraction leading posters to bicker ("It's not paint", "Jones has proven it's not", "Why don't you prove it's paint"), and not a more likely alternative leading people to understand the weakness of the Bentham paper. Meh... I dunno... maybe I'll feel differently about this tomorrow... |
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7th April 2009, 09:08 PM | #843 |
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I found the paper. http://www.ehponline.org/members/200...lioy-full.html
Quote:
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7th April 2009, 09:11 PM | #844 |
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7th April 2009, 09:18 PM | #845 |
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I see your point. This is what I would say.
You have seen me post a number of times that for the most part I comment only now...very little debunking. You have also seen my explanation for that, which is that there has been nothing new. Now while the theory Jones is proposing is not new, his paper is. For that reason I feel I should at least try to address some of the things within it, in what ever little way I can. While I do not think there are many undecided lurkers left, I think we owe it to those few that are, to show them how poor Jone's science is, in what ever ways we can. TAM |
7th April 2009, 09:19 PM | #846 |
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7th April 2009, 09:22 PM | #847 |
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7th April 2009, 09:32 PM | #848 |
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7th April 2009, 10:05 PM | #849 |
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8th April 2009, 12:33 AM | #850 |
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he red part of the splinter contain carbon, oxygen, aluminum, silicon and iron, while the gray only contains iron and oxygen. Splinter are magnetic.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...90406135508204 |
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8th April 2009, 03:30 AM | #851 |
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8th April 2009, 03:41 AM | #852 |
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8th April 2009, 04:01 AM | #853 |
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It is not really grey, so much as a dark metallic color. I always found the use of "grey" in this context to be odd.
TAM |
8th April 2009, 04:14 AM | #854 |
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8th April 2009, 04:19 AM | #855 |
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If he really means that there was only iron and oxygen surely the colour would be more red than grey. I saw a video that said when particle size is reduced to nano-levels that the natural colour can change. Maybe it's got nano properties. I also wonder if ALL the nano thermite they recovered was exclusively backed with the grey material or if some of it was loose and unbacked.
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8th April 2009, 04:41 AM | #856 |
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Which is the reason why it's not a valid question. High energy release per unit mass suggests that the chips don't contain the oxygen needed for combustion, because that tends to limit the energy density. Higher energy release per unit mass than TNT suggests that the material isn't thermite.
Again, this has been corrected several times in this thread. The energy density of "super thermite" is exactly the same as that of the same thermite composition with a greater particle size. The only difference in "super thermite" is that the energy is released faster, but that isn't what Jones is testing. Therefore, higher energy density argues against "super thermite" to exactly the same degree that it argues against thermite. This is basic chemistry. In return, would you try to avoid asking questions that have been answered multiple times in the thread? Dave |
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8th April 2009, 04:45 AM | #857 |
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8th April 2009, 06:18 AM | #858 |
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8th April 2009, 06:31 AM | #859 |
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It was ever thus Dave. Did you think we were starting from a point of not having a very good idea who had carried out 9/11 ? '9/11 Truth', at least from my point of view means exposing the real Truth about 9/11.
I do not claim to be impartial but in my own interest I try to be objective. That doesn't mean I won't try on a hypothesis for size however.. |
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8th April 2009, 07:06 AM | #860 |
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On the contrary, I thought you were starting from a point of total certainty as to who carried out 9/11 before even looking at the evidence. That's not something to be proud of.
Absolute rubbish. '9/11 Truth' from your point of view is about starting from an unfailing belief that 9/11 was an inside job, then re-interpreting whatever evidence you find so as to reinforce that belief. If you were truly seeking to expose the real truth, your beliefs would be a conclusion, not a starting point. As long as it involves 9/11 being an inside job, since you've decided reality doesn't fit you. Dave |
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8th April 2009, 07:22 AM | #861 |
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8th April 2009, 07:50 AM | #862 |
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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8th April 2009, 07:56 AM | #863 |
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http://www.911blogger.com/node/19271
which links to this file http://www.911podcasts.com/files/doc...reproofing.zip Reviewed it last night which pretty much shows construction/renovation/sampling documents that show consistency/thickness/weight per cu ft results and draws attention to areas of concern re:spots missing existing fireproofing. Nowhere does it state procedures for removal of fire protection. just mitigation of any perceived loss of protection during renovation. Removal of ANY spray on fireproofing in an occupied structure during renovations is a big no no in the construction industry. It exposes the steel to potential fire hazards which are often more likely to occur during the renovation itself. Especially exposed because of the removal of suspended ceilings which are themselves always fire rated in a commercial building. Things that can cause a fire during renovation include, Solvent flash fires, Heat gun coming in contact with a combustible during a vinyl tile removal, Plumbers torch, electrical hazard. etc. |
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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8th April 2009, 08:09 AM | #864 |
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Just a note about the Zinc in this primer.
It lists Zinc Compounds, as 2.98% by weight, but we must not forget that those compounds are not pure zinc, but complex molecules of Zinc Chromate, so the amount of Zinc would be even less, but still present, none the less. TAM |
8th April 2009, 08:17 AM | #865 |
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If professor Jones is reading this forum, I have the following questions,
1. Why was the tnemec primer used on the WTC beams not tested, with reference to the spectral analysis, in order to rule it in, or out, as a possible source for the red chips. There is photographic evidence in the NIST REPORT of a substance that at least on a macro level, looks incredibly similar to the "red chips" being claimed as a thermitic substance. 2. Why were the specimens of red chips not taken and examined both unwashed (as done) and after washing (not done) to see if the alleged surface contaminates were in fact contaminates, and not part of the chips themselves? TAM |
8th April 2009, 08:20 AM | #866 |
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8th April 2009, 08:24 AM | #867 |
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No, bill.
"Nano" does not mean "a billionth of a meter. That would be "nanometer". Nano doesn't even mean "small". A "nano-light year" is not a short length. It just means "billionth". Your question, "does it have 'nano' properties"... Absolutely it does. It has the EXACTLY the "nano properties" of a chunk of the same stuff that is a billion times bigger. |
8th April 2009, 08:29 AM | #868 |
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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8th April 2009, 08:35 AM | #869 |
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All the impact floors in WTC1 had been upgraded, but only one of the impact floors in WTC2. I haven't done any statistical analysis, but it looks like there's a pretty obvious absence of correlation either way between fireproofing upgrades and impact floors, upgrades and fire locations, and upgrades and collapse initiation zones, so long as you look at both towers rather than cherry-picking WTC1 and ignoring WTC2. I see from PrisonPlanet that Kevin Ryan tried to make it look a little more correlated by stretching the WTC2 impact zone down a bit to include one more upgraded floor, but as far as I recall 78 was the lowest floor hit, not 77.
Now, your comment was? Dave |
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8th April 2009, 08:45 AM | #870 |
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8th April 2009, 08:55 AM | #871 |
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8th April 2009, 09:01 AM | #872 |
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In terms of at least some thermite reactions, this is complete and utter nonsense. Anybody's who is interested in the effect of scale on properties of thermite would do well to check out MODELING THE MELT DISPERSION MECHANISM FOR NANOPARTICLE COMBUSTION
From the Conclusion section
Quote:
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8th April 2009, 09:08 AM | #873 |
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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8th April 2009, 09:15 AM | #874 |
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8th April 2009, 09:16 AM | #875 |
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8th April 2009, 09:16 AM | #876 |
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8th April 2009, 09:18 AM | #877 |
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Oh, this is cute. The cores were rectangles in the square perimeter tubes. The long edge in one tower went North-South, and in the other went East-West. So one difference is that the basic design was built 90 degrees different. How does that change the actual structure, bill?
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8th April 2009, 09:20 AM | #878 |
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(a) It isn't true. (b) Even if it were, it would be rendered entirely unremarkable by the fact that all but one of the WTC2 impact floors weren't upgraded, unless the Impossibly Vast Evil Conspiracy decided, for reasons only imaginable to the mind of a budding Dr. Evil, to demolish the two WTC towers in different ways. Still, why have an impossibly complicated conspiracy when you can figure out a way to make it twice as complicated?
When you find out why that's an epic fail, you might even find it funny yourself. Dave |
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8th April 2009, 09:21 AM | #879 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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8th April 2009, 09:23 AM | #880 |
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Thats nothing more than core/building orientation. Turn one of the towers 90 degrees and they are identical. The planes are not a part of the structure so regardless of where they impacted does not make the buildings themselves different. But there are a few other small differences. (in the buildings themselves) Care to point them out?
edit, heres a clue to one of the differences. one of the towers is a bit taller than the other. explain why. (has nothing to do with the lack of, or the inclusion of the antenna.) |
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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