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8th April 2009, 08:28 PM | #1161 |
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OMG guys. So I was playing with the formula for the thermite reaction.
Fe2O3 + 2Al -> 2Fe + Al2O3 + Heat Lets put the atomic numbers for each atom there and add it all up. Atomic number for Iron (Fe) = 26 Atomic number for Oxygen (O) = 8 Atomic number for Aluminum (Al) =13 So... (I only added up the reactants since the number will be the same for the products anyway) 2(26) + 3(8) + 2(13) =52 + 24 + 26 =102 What is the significance of 102? Well, 102 is the same amount of time, in minutes, between the first plane hitting the North Tower and it collapsing. OMG!!!111!1111111!!!!!! If you think this is a coincidence, you are a sheeple. The NWO did this on purpose. Just to **** with us! It's so obvious, sheeple! Open your eyes! |
8th April 2009, 08:56 PM | #1162 |
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8th April 2009, 09:03 PM | #1163 |
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8th April 2009, 09:10 PM | #1164 |
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Zinc yellow is ZnCr04 Zinc and chromium.
Do you look up anything besides regurgitating the delusions of Jones? He made this up. There was no thermite planted at the WTC by some 3rd party dolts to bring down the towers. Robertson the chief engineer would love to have some excuse like evildoers Jones and Bush see everywhere plot to take down his towers, but he understands the impacts and fires destroyed the towers and the dolt Jones can't grasp physics or fire to understand reality. Not to discourage your curiosity but 911Truth is only lies, hearsay, and delusions. There are interesting aspects to study but never has 911Truth or Jones had a rational conclusion to change 19 terrorists and a gravity collapse of the towers. You should be able to see where the calcium is in coatings. Jones can’t. The only CT here is Jones and his fringe group making up delusions to fool those who lack knowledge. The chips are most likely products of fire and material in the WTC and have nothing to do with the demise of the WTC but a product of the collapse and fires. There will be no formal papers to rebut the delusions of Jones because everyone have other things to do beside do formal rebuttals to insanity claims by dolts who paid to have implications of lies published. diatomaceous silica - did you look up this? Do you think calcium can be in this? What about Si? calcium silicates and aluminates - are in, or can be in tnemec pigment (as are the rest of the elements found; look it up) I have seen chips like Jones has from products left from fires. Forget about paint, the stuff Jones has are products from the disaster at the WTC and not from idiots planting thermite, painting thermite to blow up the WTC, or planted thermite in the Ceiling tiles. It takes an insane person to ignore logic and imply the lies Jones makes up. If you check out what Jones says, you find the stink of stupid. Pure delusions since the day he woke up and wrote his first letter/paper on 911 4 years after 911 so he could join the weak-minded who apologize for terrorists. What a great American. Go talk to Jones, he can be emailed, and or you can go to 911blogger and ask him when he posts to his dumbed-down on 911 audience. Jones is the most personable dolt on 911Truth issues you will find. |
8th April 2009, 10:46 PM | #1165 |
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9th April 2009, 12:21 AM | #1166 |
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30 pages and no new evidence. Is this a record?
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9th April 2009, 12:32 AM | #1167 |
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Professor Niels Harrit said the following:-
''The red part of the splinter contain carbon, oxygen, aluminum, silicon and iron, while the gray only contains iron and oxygen. Splinter are magnetic.'' http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...90406135508204 Does he mean that the grey material contains only iron and oxygen or is composed of only iron and oxygen ? If it's the last one it is a recipe for rust and if it's the first one then what is the grey material itself ? Maybe this is a crazy question but can somebody enlighten me ? |
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9th April 2009, 01:05 AM | #1168 |
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What does grey mean? I think you can probably call it rust. If you think about it a bit, I think you'll realize that " contains only iron and oxygen" and "is composed of only iron and oxygen" mean exactly the same thing due to the meaning of the word "only." I've never been that kind of scientist, by any stretch of the definition, but I'm seeing descriptions of two kinds of "rust" out there. Go to ebay (or elsewhere) and look up "thermite," "hematite" and "magnetite." Look at the pictures. It appears (also from JREF posts) that hematite is Fe2O3, also called "ferric oxide," and is not magnetic. It appears that magnetite is Fe3O4 and is magnetic. Someone pointed out that there is another form of Fe2O3 which is magnetic, due to its structure. In biology, at one point in time a species of white moths was identified in England. Following a series of mutations and environmental changes, the same species were identified as black moths. Eventually, they renamed them "gray moths," noting that normal variations would cause some of them to appear as black and some as white, and that when industrialization turned previously white tree trunks black, the white moths stood out and were eaten by predators so that only the darker moths survived to have offspring. Well, that's probably off-topic, but I'm just talking about the words "gray" and "black" here. There are different shades of gray. |
9th April 2009, 01:07 AM | #1169 |
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Not to make excuses for NIST, but they certainly had time and budget constraints. They also made other mistakes that worked against their conclusions.
Gordon's theory is pure conjecture and is refuted by the sound recordings (on videos) of the collapses. Any explosive that could sever steel would be heard clearly and blow out windows. Neither was observed. I cover this in my Open Letter to Richard Gage and compare sound levels to actual demolitions...easy to find on google. |
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9th April 2009, 01:28 AM | #1170 |
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Hi Gregory,
I read your papers btw, good work. I find it perplexing that people don't seem to notice the overwhelming agenda which guides the work of Dr. Jones and his associates, and if they do, that it doesn't bother them. I would ask truthers to be careful what they wish for, because by setting up the narrative of an evil force at work in your midst, all around you, eventually it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, the narrative will take over your better judgment. This has happened before in various societies, which fell into the trap of demonizing identifiable groups and punishing them for perceived sins. The mere fact that many truthers seem to regard skeptics as part of the 'conspiracy', and supporters of mass murder (as we saw Galileo spewing on about earlier on this forum) points to the direction the 'truth' movement could take if this keeps up. I really have no idea what Dr. Jones really wants, but I suspect he has become hopelessly obsessed with his quest and has lost all objectivity. Because he is eloquent and intelligent, he could do a lot of damage to his country. I hope that doesn't happen. Dr. Jones has demonstrated a willingness to exaggerate and mislead, in my view, based on his lectures and various statements he's made. I see no reason to believe he is not continuing this pattern in a realm I just don't understand as well. Thank you to those scientists out there who are taking the time to digest the info for us laymen. |
9th April 2009, 01:42 AM | #1171 |
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I still don't understand how, if this alleged material was applied strategically, not universally within the towers, it would wind up in 100% of the dust samples Jones had.
Doesn't that mean the material HAD to be something very common in the buildings? It doesn't add up for me. |
9th April 2009, 02:31 AM | #1172 |
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...and that is the crux of your problem, alien. You are assuming that the material was not universally applied.
Once you crack the means with which the towers were demolished, the evidence discovered by Jones becomes insurmountable. Government hacks - like the majority of posters in this thread - simply lack the power to deduce how the towers were demolished. |
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9th April 2009, 02:32 AM | #1173 |
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If the analysis of the grey mterial and the thermite residue shows that the particles are at the nanometer scale (one billionth of a meter) that is almost as suspicious as the thermite itself. Apparently 100% of the dust samples contain the chips eith this thermite . In 2001 from what I have picked up the technology to produce this size of particle was virtually unknown in the wider world - but maybe not to the military.
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9th April 2009, 02:43 AM | #1174 |
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9th April 2009, 02:44 AM | #1175 |
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9th April 2009, 02:57 AM | #1176 |
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I can agree with that - "...the majority of posters in this thread - simply lack the power to deduce how the towers were demolished..."
No one has the "power to deduce" something that simply and blatantly obviously did not happen. I can readily work out why the collapse happened as a consequence of aircraft crash damage plus fire effects interacting with a uniquely vulnerable structural design. And that is not too hard for anyone with a modest level of technical aptitude to understand even if they could not work it out themselves. But I cannot work out how I would demolish the towers to cause them to fail the way they did actually fall as the result of collision damage; fire and a cascading failure. And, despite the millions of words written and spoken by the leading pro demolition conspirisists NOT ONE OF THEM has suggested a viable scheme of demolition which could cause the actual method of collapse which occurred. Sure they fool the unqualified lay people with their lies and innuendo BUT never has any "truther" or "pro-demolition" person posted a workable hypothesis that would not fall apart if put to a normally qualified civil/structural engineer like me (I also have help from a bit of Military Demolitions and forensic experience) So could you tell us what "evidence" by Jones explains how a demolition could occur? And it has to be one which causes/results in the form of collapse which actually happened. Because Jones never has. If you cannot do it please say and I may give you a few clues. Cannot be much fairer than that can I? |
9th April 2009, 03:19 AM | #1177 |
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You can't think of a way to demolish the towers in a way that would give us the result we witnessed?
Can you believe that if thermate were used it would leave evidence in the dust? Look at the entire episode of 9/11. You would have to be daft to actually believe that some guys that were working out on a jungle-gym in the desert suddenly became capable of piloting heavy commercial aircraft and defeated the air defenses of the United States. Every location is fuzzed up. The hole in PA - the impact at the Pentagon - the destruction of the WTC. The government nutters want us to believe that everything was normal. Perhaps Randi can come on here and explain to you how illusions work. In the meantime you can ponder how the Patriot Act was ready to go, and how congress was intimidated by anthrax made in the good ol' USA. |
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9th April 2009, 03:19 AM | #1178 |
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If there are very few of those multi-layered chips it could be that they are a series of bi-leyered ones that are stuck together.
I can't imagine an application for a chip with six alternating layers of incediary...non-ondiary...incendiary...non-incendiary and so on. Or IS the grey stuff also eplosive/incendiary ? |
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9th April 2009, 03:31 AM | #1179 |
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All the more reason to show the Jones, et. al. paper to additional domain experts. Re Greening's expertise
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But seriously, if you have a naked section of column, you could wrap that puppy with a nanofoil the same way that you can wrap a baked potato - before or after it's baked. OK, I'm not really sure that nanofoils are as flexible as the aluminum foils we have in our kitchens, but it's something to check out. Of course, you also have to check out whether thermitic nanofoils could be created, which are consistent with the red/gray chips' structure. From the descriptions, they seem to be essentially alloys with alternating, simple, elemental layers. (I first heard about such alloys 30 years ago.) The thing that bothers me most about the Jones, et. al. paper is that, on the one hand, I've never heard of elemental Al ( + Si ) in platelet form, while all nanothermite powders that I am aware of have elemental Al in spherical particles. Not saying it can't be done, but how on earth could Jones, et. al, not have anticipated this issue, and at least noted that they hadn't resolved it, yet? I'm not a material scientist, but my money is on material scientists demanding more proof that elemental-Al/Si platelets can even exist. As nanofoils can be used as both soldering agents and ignition devices, I wonder if hybrids could be constructed that are used to solder nanofoil-demolition layers to steel beams via intervening nanofoil-solder layers? One can imagine strips of the stuff, where the layer used for soldering extends beyond the demolition layers. (Allowing you to expose electrodes.) Or maybe just one end longer, since some nanofoils can be ignited via laser (mostly mentioned for the benefit of Max Photon fans ) |
9th April 2009, 03:34 AM | #1180 |
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The grey chips contain only iron and oxygen- two of the major ingredients of thermite. Could the grey stuff have been there to provide extra oxygen and iron for the reaction which I believe is much more energetic with nano-thermite ?
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9th April 2009, 03:43 AM | #1181 |
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Jones, et. al., suggest that only the red layer is thermitic, but it sure looks to me like the grey layer gets consumed much more than the red layer. (Judging by their photo of a chip after they ignited it.) Perhaps the grey layer is used to conduct the melt process laterally faster than the red layer, alone, can achieve. In so doing, it would react with some of the Al in the red layer, but spare most of it for reacting with the iron oxide which is also within the red layer.
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9th April 2009, 04:19 AM | #1182 |
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Are nano-materials relatively heavier than their standard counterparts ? If the particles are ground so fine that they can enter even mcro-structures such as the human cell you could get an awful lot of them in a cubic inch.
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9th April 2009, 04:21 AM | #1183 |
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Boy this thread has brought out all the little truther children. Like I said before, it is not surprising. I mean this feeble bit of pseudoscience Jones has produced is the only distant point of light the truthers have had since 2006.
When it falls flat on its face (AND I GUARANTEE it will), will you all scury back under your rocks as quickly? TAM |
9th April 2009, 04:24 AM | #1184 |
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I'm just wondering what you are going to do after your shill job is over.
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9th April 2009, 04:32 AM | #1185 |
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9th April 2009, 04:33 AM | #1186 |
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9th April 2009, 04:35 AM | #1187 |
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from what sunstealer says about the gray layer:
"The "gray layer" looks more and more likely to be a flake of oxidised A36 steel - they are making excuses for the amount of Carbon present and if it is correct that there is an Mn peak at just under 6KeV in samples a,b and d then that's the clincher right there." so if there are layers and layers of oxidised A36 steel then i can see the what u are saying but i highly doubt that. so since some chips are multiple layered (6 layers), could that rule out oxidised A36 steel between each layer? and would the picture sunstealer posts "seperated at birth be void when speaking of these multiple layered chips? |
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9th April 2009, 04:53 AM | #1188 |
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9th April 2009, 04:59 AM | #1189 |
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You show a remarkable lack of understanding of what is occurring here.
We have been presented with a paper written by a gang of half-baked failed scientists, all operating either outside their areas of expertise or on inadequate information. I have not even been able to determine whether some of them are even actual scientists. Two of them strike me as odd because one might actually by an opthamologist, and another a lawyer. As a fire fighter, I would invite both of them to go paly on the freeway while the adults with some idea of how these things work discuss the holes the size of grey whales through Jonesie's paper. Now, unless you can give us some indication that you have some particular knowledge of what a crash scene should look like, or what the damage done by thermite would look like, you will just have to excuse my dismissing your snide comments as more obfuscation. Your debating style is too reminiscent of what we have to put up with from the WACoffs. |
9th April 2009, 05:02 AM | #1190 |
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Shill? Jesus that's boring. That's just code word for "somebody who disagrees with me whom I have no response to". I personally liked being called a "Bush lover". Good times.
Double entendres ROCK! |
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9th April 2009, 05:12 AM | #1191 |
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9th April 2009, 06:02 AM | #1192 |
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Physical Structure of the Chips:-
Chips having distinctive and similar physical features were found in all four of the dust samples, ranging in length from from about 0.2 to 3 mm. Each chip has stratified layers of two types: a red layer and a lighter gray layer, where each layer is between roughly 10 and 100 microns in thickness. Despite their small size, the chips are readily visible in the samples because of their flat shapes, distinctive color, and layered structure. The chips are tough despite being as thin as eggshells. Magnification reveals that the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material, whereas the red layers have small particles embedded in a matrix of slightly translucent material. At magnification of 50,000 the structure of the two types of particles is clear: small bright particles having a faceted shape and measuring about 100 nm in diameter, and larger particles having a flat and often hexagonal shape and measuring about 1000 nm across and 40 nm thick. The particles are held in place and in close proximity to each other by the porous matrix. Soaking the chips in methyl ethyl ketone, a solvent that dissolves paint, caused the red layer to swell while remaining intact. Up to this point, I have reviewed only characteristics of the chips revealed by macro- and micro-scopic visual examination, but already the implications are stunning: the chips are clearly a nano-engineered material with two types of extremely small particles, each highly consistent in shape and size, held in close stable proximity by a durable matrix which is laminated to a hard homogenous material. The student of energetic materials will appreciate that this description matches exactly that of a super-thermite in which the reactant particles are suspended in a sol-gel matrix applied to a substrate. http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...chip_structure |
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9th April 2009, 06:05 AM | #1193 |
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Now that all the truthers are in this thread, can we lock it and keep them here?
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9th April 2009, 06:37 AM | #1194 |
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get your nanofoil and make party hats!!!, err... dunce caps
regardless of how many layers of Jonesies nanunanuthermite were allegedly painted onto the steel back in 1970. **cough*before this compound ever existed***cough*** Jonesie still has failed to demonstrate this alleged destructive effect on steel. Even with a small piece of discarded steel bed frame angle you can pick up off the curb on any garbage day. And Jonesie still has to show us how the alleged perpetrators prevented this compound from simply sloughing off the vertical members when this alleged reaction took place. The more layers you have. the further it gets from the steel. two layers twice removed, three layers thrice, and so on. Like motorists at a toll plaza, You cant throw your quarter into the basket at the toll booth when your the tenth car in line. Your not reaching the basket. This "paper" fails on its face simply because its implausible. You cant get this imaginary device to its target. And there simply aint enough of it. Its like expecting the steel wire of fourth of july sparkler to fold over during its reaction. to use a truther argument, Its never happened. Not in the history of ever.
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9th April 2009, 07:16 AM | #1195 |
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9th April 2009, 07:24 AM | #1196 |
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how appropriate, tiny foil for tiny hats for tiny heads
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911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
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9th April 2009, 07:29 AM | #1197 |
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You do realize that you are in a board entirely of paid government shills, right?
Hell, if you think Blackwater ripped off Uncle Sugar you should see the JREF Payroll! Woo! We all drive classic European roadsters and live in mansions that HAVEN'T lost their value because we paid for them in good, solid AMEROS. And wow do we get the chicks, man! Of course the Mata Hari training academy has to send their students out for internships, and, well, we reluctantly take them on - for the CAUSE, you know. And speaking of being government shills here, why do YOU feel so safe coming in here? You know we have control of at least 5 cameras in your home right? I bet you thought that cell phone never sent pictures unless you asked it to, right? LOL! But you know, you are safe for now; We always play a fish for a while before reeling him in - seems only sporting. |
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9th April 2009, 07:35 AM | #1198 |
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9th April 2009, 07:37 AM | #1199 |
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They take their paranoia, mix in a healthy dose of mistrust in anything "gubmint", and then bake it in that big ole EZ Bake oven of ignorance, and come to the delusional conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. - Seymour Butz |
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9th April 2009, 07:39 AM | #1200 |
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