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22nd August 2015, 03:18 PM | #441 |
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What he actually said was this:
"A human being is a part of the whole called by us "the universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest - a kind of optical illusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening the circle of understanding and compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - Albert Einstein |
22nd August 2015, 03:25 PM | #442 |
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I'm after the source. Is it a translation?
I've read that it might have been part of a consoling letter to a bereaved father. I've also read that:
Quote:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us |
22nd August 2015, 03:32 PM | #443 |
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visiting this silly thread after a considerable absence, I have an anecdote, because last week I was taking a long flight home, a little bit under the weather, and on the plane I succumbed to sleep as I often do, but this time it was for quite some time the sort of hypnagogic sleep usually fleeting. I dreamed my body was doing things it was not, drifted outside the usual boundaries, and dreamed that I was floating above the scene. I'm sure glad I didn't finish dying so close to the finish line!
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22nd August 2015, 03:42 PM | #444 |
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Probably just turbulence in your case.
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22nd August 2015, 03:42 PM | #445 |
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Unfortunately, the article doesn't detail how increased brain activity in rats at time of death is subject to external stimuli. Nor is any such stimuli identified.
Sure, enough evidence that life itself exists, but no evidence whatsoever for non corporeal consciousness. Only belief. |
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22nd August 2015, 03:48 PM | #446 |
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22nd August 2015, 03:55 PM | #447 |
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Evidently the brain uses different neural pathways when you actually see something versus dream it.
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22nd August 2015, 04:00 PM | #448 |
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22nd August 2015, 04:11 PM | #449 |
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It depends on the person, for me, it didn't.
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22nd August 2015, 04:16 PM | #450 |
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22nd August 2015, 06:37 PM | #451 |
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I was only explaining how I synthesized what research is out there to arrive at what I believe. It's going to take someone light years ahead of me in "smarts" to provide the kind of evidence/proof that a skeptic would need to accept the possibility.
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22nd August 2015, 07:10 PM | #452 |
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23rd August 2015, 01:39 AM | #453 |
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"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett "If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans "I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat |
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23rd August 2015, 02:02 AM | #454 |
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23rd August 2015, 08:29 AM | #455 |
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There will never be a way to "see" the phenomena with our physical brains. The existence of an afterlife, pro or con, could only be intuited based on what new discoveries are made and what hypotheses are postulated that are proven to be true. What other kind of phenomena did you have in mind?
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23rd August 2015, 08:46 AM | #456 |
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"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett "If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans "I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat |
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23rd August 2015, 09:11 AM | #457 |
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As I see it we are discussing the idea of something existing that would be indistinguishable from it not existing. That is a serious problem for evaluating the existence of that thing in particular. More so, such a concept also removes all constraints- if there is no evidence of something existing, how do you know it doesn't exist? Perhaps interesting from a philosophical perspective for some, but it doesn't seem like anything that one should bet on when planning one's life, or what to do after death.
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23rd August 2015, 09:29 AM | #458 |
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It's Narnia in the wardrobe. From all study, it's a plain wooden backing; nothing special. Many who step in come out babbling fantastic tales of the other side. Who can say what they see?
There's not much else in the wardrobe; a dearth of clothes on hangers; a near dearth experience, then, and Narnia is come. Science cannot help us here. Narnia is real, but real is not real unless you get real about the reality of the super-real. Besides, what is a wardrobe divided by three? How can you compute that without a soul? |
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23rd August 2015, 10:45 AM | #459 |
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23rd August 2015, 11:39 AM | #460 |
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23rd August 2015, 11:45 AM | #461 |
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But that's not what you appear to believe in this post:
..... then there can be no ghosts in your anecdotes or your anecdotes can be no basis for your belief in an afterlife. |
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23rd August 2015, 04:24 PM | #462 |
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There is NO evidence whatsoever anywhere to tell you what rats see at any time let alone after they have been euthanized with KCl to the heart. You have absolutely no basis for claiming that rats are seeing something, or hallucinating at any time, and to suggest that you KNOW they were trying to "figure out what they were seeing" is the height of fantasy. There is nothing in that article suggesting what you say,. In fact the authors believe their results show that there is some possible basis for suggesting that the human brain, even after cardiac arrest and EEG "flatline" could actually be generating dreams. You are piling misinterpretation on fantasy and then claiming that your conclusion is based in reality. |
23rd August 2015, 07:05 PM | #463 |
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There are several articles regarding that study so let me find the one that talks about the brain activity of the rats.
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic....consciousness/ |
23rd August 2015, 08:24 PM | #464 |
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No, you are merely cherry picking Google search results that you think will prop up your existing belief or want to believe. To imply that that you first read scientific research to arrive at your conclusion is disingenuous of you, considering this post;
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24th August 2015, 01:27 AM | #465 |
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24th August 2015, 05:48 AM | #466 |
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The fifth paragraph of this article: "But Borjigin’s research suggests that these experiences could just be a natural product of a dying brain. That doesn’t make them any less real, but it does root them in the natural world, without the need for a “super-“ prefix." Even this secondary source gets it right. You are persistently misinterpreting these results. Please note "could just be"; this is a provisional interpretation. Also, there is no one anywhere who can tell you when a rat is "seeing" vs "imagining", or "trying to figure out" based on EEG recordings, or any other information, other than their own imaginations. |
24th August 2015, 07:57 AM | #467 |
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You mean just as happens when they're dreaming?
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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24th August 2015, 08:07 AM | #468 |
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I couldn't see that in the article - care to quote the relevant text?
What I did see was that the conclusion was, "These neurophysiological changes may very well be the cause of the near-death experiences people often report". Note the use of the word 'cause'. Move along now, nothing to see here. |
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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24th August 2015, 09:36 AM | #469 |
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24th August 2015, 09:40 AM | #470 |
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24th August 2015, 09:42 AM | #471 |
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24th August 2015, 09:43 AM | #472 |
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24th August 2015, 09:45 AM | #473 |
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24th August 2015, 09:45 AM | #474 |
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24th August 2015, 09:47 AM | #475 |
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24th August 2015, 09:49 AM | #476 |
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24th August 2015, 09:50 AM | #477 |
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Ha!
"There's no evidence that pigs can fly." "Ah-ha! You're just cherry picking that since nothing definitive has been found." Pure fly fishing. |
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24th August 2015, 09:56 AM | #478 |
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24th August 2015, 10:03 AM | #479 |
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And? What do you think this proves?
A) What we know of reality is wrong and we have to change physics B) You're wrong about what you experienced. I know which of those explanations is simpler and best fits the facts.
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A) Do you have any evidence of conscious thought anywhere else? B) Why do nonfunctional brains produce NO THOUGHT whatsoever? When you're temporarily dead, you don't find yourself elsewhere. In fact there is no passage of time at all between shut-down and start-up. This clashes with your belief.
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24th August 2015, 10:27 AM | #480 |
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To answer your first two questions. I don't think it proves physics to be wrong, just incomplete. In most things I was wrong but not in all of them.
I have no evidence, no one does, but it doesn't mean it's not there. Your wrong in what you think you know about the dying process. They haven't found a definite stop point and this continues to be a legal issue for those that want the option for euthanasia or when to remove life support. As for not wanting to die, if I'm dead I won't know the difference. If some kind of existence continues I'm sure the challenges will be greater than what we experience here on earth during this "life" time. What I want will be irrelevant either way. Why would I believe something that can't be proven? I rely more on my sense of intuition rather than any other faculty. |
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