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4th March 2017, 01:43 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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All things Trump + Russia
The other threads are either too general or too specific.
To start with, I'm cataloging some old news. These are the different times that Trump claimed to have a direct relationship with Putin. Nov 2013 Roberts: Do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin? A conversational relationship or anything that you feel you have sway or influence over his government? Trump: I do have a relationship, and I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today. May 2014 Trump: I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin. Oct 2015 Savage: Have you ever met Vladimir Putin? Trump: Yes. Savage: You have? Trump: Yes a long time ago. We got along great. And then of course, his infamous change of tune in Sept 2015, pre-dating the Savage interview?! Can that be right?
Originally Posted by Trump
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4th March 2017, 01:51 PM | #2 |
Nasty Woman
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Saw those clips back to back yesterday on the news. The blatant dishonesty is stunning.
The web of relationships between Team Trump and Russia has a nice diagram. |
4th March 2017, 02:31 PM | #3 |
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---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
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4th March 2017, 02:38 PM | #4 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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It's all been ginned up by the lying fake news media! Trump has never spoken to any foreigners! Putin doesn't exist!
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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4th March 2017, 02:52 PM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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4th March 2017, 02:55 PM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm as tired of hearing "Russia" as I was of hearing "emails."
What I don't get: How Justice supposedly got information that presumably came from Russian security (Flynn's talks with ambassador). What caused Trump to finally say he was convinced that meddling in the U.S. presidential race came from Russia. Trump got where he is by inheriting money, running his mouth and appealing to a populist streak in voters. Putin got where he is by killing all his enemies. Trump is fundamentally outmatched and has no idea. I'm sure billions of dollars are flying around and maybe I should be more concerned about that, but unless Putin is sending pallets of cash directly to Trump, my post-election fatigue is edging out my curiosity. ETA: If I had the radio on and only heard the words "Sergey Kislyak," I'd probably think they were talking about a hockey player. |
4th March 2017, 02:59 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Sorry, I know this is serious, but if there's a pee-pee video can the ka-ka one be far behind?
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4th March 2017, 03:24 PM | #8 |
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The Russia connection is tremendously important not for putting a thumb on the scale in the election... but for what they'll (read Putin) want down the road. Make no mistake... we can be cordial with Russia (read Putin), we can be trading partners with Russia, we can make treaties and agreements with Russia, but Russia's national interests and those of the US are not, and probably will never be, in close alignment. There are any number of areas where they would like a free hand and US interests, alliances and muscle are all that stands in the way. This administration is now chock full of wealthy and influential people who have made millions (billions?) through the good graces of, you guessed it... V. Putin. Besides the rape of the US environmental and financial landscapes to come... what favors are they going to do for Russia? (Keep in mind... in many of these areas of interest for Putin, US inaction is all he needs.) This isn't some Rothschild's/NWO CT... it's much simpler than that. It's just very wealthy people, using their positions to stay that way. Citizenry be damned. And this new bromance looks to be very profitable. But given how outclassed Trump is in this match-up... I suspect it's the US citizens who'll get the shorter end of that stick. |
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---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
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4th March 2017, 03:44 PM | #9 |
Philosopher
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Its time for a full & thorough investigation into all things Russian.
Communications with the Trump campaign, FBI investigations into Trump, etc etc etc. |
4th March 2017, 05:06 PM | #10 |
Philosopher
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4th March 2017, 07:26 PM | #11 |
Master Poster
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I'm fighting my eyelids...I did my best to read this...but I think I skipped quite a bit.
Either way...Your millage may vary... https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/ |
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Eqinsu Ocha! Eqinsu Ocha! |
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4th March 2017, 07:46 PM | #12 |
Nasty Woman
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The thing is, all of that was in the news at the time, for example that is a Nov 2016 cite. It's only now Trump is surprised and half the country has not bothered to Google related news.
Not to mention, you'd think the idiots in the Trump camp might have taken measures at the time. Yet some of Flynn's calls to the Russian ambassador were in Jan, weren't they? Surely they were at least as late as Dec. |
4th March 2017, 11:29 PM | #13 |
Illuminator
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If the FISA warrant isn't public information because its an ongoing investigation, and Trump learned about the wiretapping from Breitbart, how did Breitbart get confirmation of the wiretapping/FISA warrant?
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Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
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5th March 2017, 01:02 AM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump angry and frustrated at staff over Sessions fallout
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/04/politi...bus/index.html It's so funny when The Hair suffers. |
5th March 2017, 04:35 AM | #15 | ||
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th March 2017, 09:03 AM | #16 |
Miss Schoolteacher
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That's why all of these right-wing "ZOMG did Obama do something illegal?!" articles being published now are laughable ********. At the time, they didn't think the news items they cite were signs the Obama Administration did anything illegal (they instead focused on denials from the Trump camp that they were involved with the server being investigated or crowing that the investigations turned up nothing and so Trump was vindicated).
This is strictly about trying to grasp at any straw they can to justify Trump's twitter rant after the fact, even if they have to contradict themselves now on what they were saying back then. |
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When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni |
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5th March 2017, 12:15 PM | #17 |
JREF Kid
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Interestingly, after Watergate, several of Nixon's staff went to prison. Nixon didn't. If I was working for Trump now, I'd be getting ready to do a deal.
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"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan |
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5th March 2017, 12:46 PM | #18 |
Nasty Woman
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The news media continues the same pattern like an abused spouse, no matter how many times Trump makes an outrageous unsupported claim via Twitter, the press makes a big story of it, (OK sort of), but then they continue with hours and hours of analysis and punditry as if the Tweet was anything other than blatant nonsense.
And as usual, they use the same formula, be sure to have a Trump spokesperson on the panel to argue straw men and false equivalencies and never sufficiently point those out. Trumpsters have their talking points memos, look at Pelosi and Schumer talking to Russians. Never mind the circumstances of Sessions' denials were about meetings that were in the previous months to his confirmation hearing, Pelosi's was more than a decade earlier and the Russian ambassador was at a large table of participants. Shumer's meeting with Putin was at a public photo-op. Sessions claim about what he did talk about wasn't credible given the setting and the circumstances surrounding the meeting. Now they have Obama making an inconvenient comment when he thought the mike was off. Well, that was a news headline scandal the GOP took advantage of at the time. And again, we aren't just talking Trump telling the ambassador to wait until Trump was POTUS and he'd address the sanctions, there is also that entire layer of Russia interfering in the election. It's not that Trump said he'd revisit the sanctions, it's also that there is evidence of potential collusion in the Russian interference in the election. |
5th March 2017, 01:03 PM | #19 |
Thinker
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5th March 2017, 03:40 PM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
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8th March 2017, 10:15 AM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Schiff to seek testimony from Trump 'dossier' author
Please, yes. The entertainment value alone could be comedy gold. |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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8th March 2017, 12:05 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The irony is that there are signs that Putin has become disgusted with Trump. He wanted a stupid puppet as POTUS,but not one so Stupid as to be dysfunctional.
I think Putin had a number of goals in playing around in the election:If he wanted to create chaos he has succeeded,if he wanted to get someone as Potus he could manipulate into changing policy he has failed. The whole Russia/Trump scandal has backfired;it has become politically toxic to come out in favor of a "softer" policy toward Russia, and, possibly to Putin's surprise, Trump cannot make serious changes to US policy toward Russia without Congress coming on board, and that is now impossble. It is the one area where the GOP congress critters have really pushed back on the White House. They might try to sweep Trump's ties to Russia under the rug, but no way will they adapt a "Putin friendly" policy. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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8th March 2017, 04:30 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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8th March 2017, 05:52 PM | #24 |
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Maybe, maybe not... for now. Putin is a simple man, among other things he wants power and... profit, sanctions lifted and deals reopened; profit; NATO weakened; profit; former territory reacquired; profit; etc. I'm not sure how comfortable the Republicans (or Dems) are going to be if we edge much closer to giving him much of that. I mean... my god, it the Russians. I think the still sanctioned Exxon deal is the immediate profit prize. That's a half trillion dollar endeavor... I can't imagine ten or more of those billions don't find their way into Vlad's bank accounts. |
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---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
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8th March 2017, 06:05 PM | #25 |
Penultimate Amazing
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There's also the speculation that his goal was less about putting Trump in the White House than making sure Clinton lost. That Trump would be a blob of clay Putin could mold was just icing on the cake, and that if he turned out to less than malleable, well, Putin could live with that.
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"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
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8th March 2017, 06:37 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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8th March 2017, 07:04 PM | #27 |
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Well the groundwork for future endeavors has been laid as well, without a doubt. He solidified his position pre-2000... he seems comfortable taking the long view. And his use of leverage purposely gathered decades earlier shows he's patient. I said he had simple goals... not that he's in any way a stupid man. Quite the opposite in fact. Without active resistance... he'll get there in the end. Wherever that may be. You can usually find it by following the trail of bodies. eta: It just occurred to me... he's probably laughed himself sore over the way we name major division heads "Czar". |
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---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
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8th March 2017, 07:41 PM | #28 |
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Trying to watch Maddow between pizza shell proofings, but...
It looks like I'm on the same page she is, though she has a far greater and deeper knowledge of the issues. We and Russia are not ideological allies. And they have been gutting our governmental resistance to their (Putin's) desires. If the GOP hasn't been listening to her and the like... they damn well better start. Depending on if this gets bad or gets reined back in... they're going to have to explain their individual positions on all of this. |
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---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
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8th March 2017, 07:59 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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9th March 2017, 02:39 AM | #30 |
Master Poster
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FISA court proceedings aren't public info b/c it's a SECRET COURT. It's my (limited) understanding that court proceedings are classified, and undergo the same declassification procedures and process as other government classified info (aka WikiLeaks).
Any reasonable person should find the idea of secret courts and mass surveillance as revolting and antithetical to liberty and a limited state - and both big parties carry a lot of blame. Breitbart was reporting on a 'Heat Street' (owned by New Corp!) article (someone gave the link above, but BBC & The Guardian have similar related reports. So we have ... http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...dermine-trump/ https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/ but with more credibility IMO, From January, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427
Quote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ussia-contacts
Quote:
------ You missed that this is OBVIOUS Left-media trolling by Trump, and not "nonsense", but targeted bee stings INTENDED to create Left-outrage. Obama did similar ~8 years ago when he failed to release his birth certificate for 2+yrs (5/2011) in order to keep the Right-crazies in turmoil. Trump is just doing the same to the Left. It's sort of an advanced form of feces-flinging that ill-mannered, uncivil politicians engage in to enrage their opposition. 'Don't feed the trolls' still applies. === More interesting is that the Dem party is now the "conservative" party, trying to prevent change, and re-create a fabled past state of affairs. They aren't using the "Red scare" tactic very effectively. Is anyone alarmed that a Hotelier building in Abu Dhabi deals with money from the Russian Kleptocracy ? Is anyone surprised that the CEO of a major multi-national oil company has dealt with Russia (the 2nd/3rd oil producer) ? Sheesh Armand Hammer was promoting Russian relations during the cold war era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Hammer Is anyone surprised that members of the executive & legislative branch have met with the Russian Ambassador to the US ? Of course we expect, based on history, that the Russian Embassy & NATO staff support espionage (and presumably ours do the same), but calling Kislyak, the Russian ambassador "one of Russia's top spies" is laughable hyperbole, and irresponsible yellow journalism. http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politi...ngs/index.html Then there is the "Russian Attack of the US" Left taking point; pure "1984" Ministry of Truth language distortion. SOMEONE hacked the Dem Party servers, b/c of a phishing exploit, wherein Podesta changed his password to "password" ! This talking point is wrong-headed for three reasons. No one can ascertain that Russia was behind this except by circumstantial evidence - readily manufactured to mislead. The Dem party is a private organization, not "the USA". The Dem party is free to secure their servers or not. I find their lack of security very unfortunate for the republic, but doesn't rise to the level of "attack". As long ago as 28 years ago, I worked on computer systems that required serious passwords - why the Dem IT staff failed to use (probably actively disabled) this basic system management feature or better yet used smart-cards or keys - suggests IT incompetence. It may be "naughty" to stare at your neighbors when they leave their blinds open, or to read the mail your co-works leave open on their desks - but it is not an "attack" when things are made so available. I could make a more coherent argument that the Dem IT staff sabotaged the server in order to distort the election. ==== I stopped listening to Maddow some years ago - she then regularly substituted smarmy condescension for evidence, a form of an ad populam fallacy ('wink wink - we all know the REAL TRUTH', despite a lack of evidence). IOW she falls closer to a Hannity mirror image than say even an O'Reilly - and I would need a LOAD of hard evidence and more reliable review sources to believe any of these. So far the Left has been blowing a load of smoke and Trump has thrown some of the smoke-bombs back. No fires ... yet. |
9th March 2017, 09:21 AM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2017, 09:37 AM | #32 |
Miss Schoolteacher
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Which is true, but irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Quote:
Quote:
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When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni |
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9th March 2017, 09:53 AM | #33 |
JREF Kid
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"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan |
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9th March 2017, 09:56 AM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2017, 02:06 PM | #35 | |||
Fiend God
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Keeps piling up. |
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9th March 2017, 02:48 PM | #36 |
Nasty Woman
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Not sure what your point is but you missed mine. Anyone who thinks Trump actually has a plan when he Tweets his outrageous nonsense hasn't been paying attention.
Trump Tweets like a petulant child because he is a petulant child. It's no more complex than that, no more thought out than that, no diabolical strategy, nada. We have more than a year of evidence supporting that conclusion but some people just can't believe Trump actually has a bonafide personality disorder so they add all this nonsense to explain his behavior. |
9th March 2017, 02:53 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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9th March 2017, 03:25 PM | #38 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2017, 03:31 PM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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9th March 2017, 04:07 PM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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For the record, here's Manafort in Aug 2016 denying Trump campaign involvement in the platform change.
Originally Posted by Manafort
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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