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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 12th April 2017, 12:21 PM   #481
Hlafordlaes
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Tillerson/Russian counterpart press conference: Pretty interesting.

Both gave Russia an out throwing Assad under the bus for the chemical bombs.

Russian counterpart notes that the US wasn't going after Al Nusra, that's why Russia is bombing Assad enemies the US considered allies.

Both agree fighting ISIL is a higher priority than Assad.

Russia denies the email hacks, Tillerson says the US has enough evidence.
Didn't quite finish watching it, but then forgot to follow up. Interesting; this is the drift I was sensing but was not sure of.
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Old 12th April 2017, 12:28 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Tillerson/Russian counterpart press conference: Pretty interesting.

Both gave Russia an out throwing Assad under the bus for the chemical bombs.

Russian counterpart notes that the US wasn't going after Al Nusra, that's why Russia is bombing Assad enemies the US considered allies.

Both agree fighting ISIL is a higher priority than Assad.

Russia denies the email hacks, Tillerson says the US has enough evidence.

Interesting
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Old 12th April 2017, 12:34 PM   #483
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From the AP:
BREAKING: Spokesman says former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort is registering with US gov't as foreign agent.
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Old 13th April 2017, 06:49 AM   #484
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Carter Page tells me he can't guarantee he did not discuss easing of sanctions w Russian contacts; “Let’s see what the FISA transcripts say”
Yes, let's.
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Old 13th April 2017, 08:38 AM   #485
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Quote:

Translation;
"I want to find out what they've got me down cold for, before I screw up and admit to something they don't know about yet."
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Old 13th April 2017, 08:48 AM   #486
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British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia in 2015.

Quote:
Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
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Old 13th April 2017, 09:38 AM   #487
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Juicy! From your link:
Quote:
European allies were supplying information about people close to Trump meeting with Russians in Britain, the Netherlands and in other countries, the Times said. There are now multiple investigations going on in Washington into Trump campaign officials and Russia. They include the FBI-led counter-espionage investigation and probes by both the House and Senate intelligence committees. Adam Schiff, the senior Democrat on the House committee, has expressed an interest in hearing from Christopher Steele, the former MI6 officer whose dossier accuses the president of long-term cooperation with Vladimir Putin’s Moscow. Trump and Putin have both dismissed the dossier as fake. One source suggested the official investigation was making progress. “They now have specific concrete and corroborative evidence of collusion,” the source said. “This is between people in the Trump campaign and agents of [Russian] influence relating to the use of hacked material.”
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Old 13th April 2017, 05:05 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Juicy! From your link:
Um...But Killary is evil!
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Old 15th April 2017, 01:18 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect that Trump thinks that Putin served his purpose in helping to get him elected, and now Putin's support has become a polticial liability,and it's time to dump him.
I got a feeling that Putin is now thinking that old saying "I bought the guy fair and square, but the SOB would not stay bought!".

How did Putin help Trump get elected?
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Old 15th April 2017, 02:34 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
How did Putin help Trump get elected?
He didn't "get" Trump elected. He influenced the elections by attacking Clinton, which may have had something to do with Trump's win, and Trump may have known and collaborated with him. If true, that's treason.
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Old 15th April 2017, 03:45 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
He didn't "get" Trump elected. He influenced the elections by attacking Clinton, which may have had something to do with Trump's win, and Trump may have known and collaborated with him. If true, that's treason.
Ha ha! Politicians attacking each other!* That's unheard of. It's an outrage!

And, as we all know, the US has never attempted to influence the outcome of an election anywhere in the world and certainly not a Russian one.

Let's go to war!

[/SARCASM]

Get a grip on reality, folks!



* BTW: Please provide an example of Putin attacking Hillary Clinton before the election.


'Stephen Cohen: This is Most Dangerous Moment in U.S.-Russian Relations Since Cuban Missile Crisis':


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I AGREE
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Old 15th April 2017, 07:22 AM   #492
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I suppose Trump pointing right to the camera and telling Russia to do what they did is just hearsay?
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:30 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Ha ha! Politicians attacking each other!* That's unheard of. It's an outrage!
Russia hacking the DNC and releasing their findings to Wikileaks in order to swing the election to Trump is just like one politician attacking another?
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:47 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Ha ha! Politicians attacking each other!* That's unheard of. It's an outrage!

And, as we all know, the US has never attempted to influence the outcome of an election anywhere in the world and certainly not a Russian one.

Let's go to war!

[/SARCASM]

Get a grip on reality, folks!



* BTW: Please provide an example of Putin attacking Hillary Clinton before the election.


'Stephen Cohen: This is Most Dangerous Moment in U.S.-Russian Relations Since Cuban Missile Crisis':


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I AGREE
Manboobs didn't write an op ed here; he used his intelligence services to hack an election and release the information through a proxy.
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Old 16th April 2017, 11:19 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
He didn't "get" Trump elected. He influenced the elections by attacking Clinton, which may have had something to do with Trump's win, and Trump may have known and collaborated with him. If true, that's treason.
Lose the "ifs" and "may haves" and you'll have an argument.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Manboobs didn't write an op ed here; he used his intelligence services to hack an election and release the information through a proxy.
Perhaps. Perhaps he sat home and ate pizza.
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Old 16th April 2017, 12:54 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
How did Putin help Trump get elected?
Hacking into the DNC emails then dripping them out at convenient times, for one. We don't know yet if they did more than that.
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:56 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Ha ha! Politicians attacking each other!* That's unheard of. It's an outrage!
I'm sure you think that's an accurate representation of what I said, but you'd be wrong.

We're not talking about standard political stuff, here. An ad paid by Trump to attack Clinton, for example. We're talking about what is essentially an enemy country favouring one candidate over the other, acting on that bias, and being helped by that candidate and his team. How is that not treason?
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:57 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Lose the "ifs" and "may haves" and you'll have an argument.
Why would I write my post to sound more certain than I am right now?
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:34 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm sure you think that's an accurate representation of what I said, but you'd be wrong.

We're not talking about standard political stuff, here. An ad paid by Trump to attack Clinton, for example. We're talking about what is essentially an enemy country favouring one candidate over the other, acting on that bias, and being helped by that candidate and his team. How is that not treason?
In what way Russia is an enemy of the United States of America?

By definition, it is not possible for one country to commit an act of treason (the crime of betraying one's country) against another country.

How did Putin act on his alleged bias? How did Putin help Trump and his team? Real-life examples, please.

I look forward to seeing actual examples of Putin attacking Clinton before the election or favouring Trump over Clinton. Maybe you can provide some but bear in mind that Clinton's pre-election stance was explicitly anti-Russian, while Trump said he was not seeking conflict with Russia.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:38 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Hacking into the DNC emails then dripping them out at convenient times, for one. We don't know yet if they did more than that.
No, we do not know that Putin hacked into DNC emails and dripped them out at convenient times. Please provide the evidence that leads you to believe otherwise.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:39 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why would I write my post to sound more certain than I am right now?

Although you have yet to substantiate the assertion, you appear to be certain that Putin influenced the elections by attacking Clinton.
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Old 17th April 2017, 01:04 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
In what way Russia is an enemy of the United States of America?
Well, trying to undermine NATO and the US and expand their power base in the east at the expense of them counts, I think.

Quote:
By definition, it is not possible for one country to commit an act of treason (the crime of betraying one's country) against another country.
I'm talking about Americans acting against their country by helping Russia undermine it.

Quote:
How did Putin act on his alleged bias? How did Putin help Trump and his team? Real-life examples, please.
You can't possibly be this ignorant. We're talking about the DNC hacking to influence the elections and get people with Russian ties into the White House. How is this not acting on Putin's anti-Clinton bias?

Quote:
Although you have yet to substantiate the assertion, you appear to be certain that Putin influenced the elections by attacking Clinton.
I'm reasonably certain because, unlike you, my opinions are not based on political ideology.
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Old 17th April 2017, 01:28 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
No, we do not know that Putin hacked into DNC emails and dripped them out at convenient times. Please provide the evidence that leads you to believe otherwise.
Seriously, have you not kept up on this matter?

CIA concludes Russia interfered to help Trump win election, say reports
Quote:
Agency reportedly believes individuals acting for Moscow hacked Democrat party emails and gave them to WikiLeaks
Reuters, The NYT and the WA Post all reported sources who revealed this was the CIA's conclusion.
Quote:
A secret CIA assessment found that Russian operatives covertly interfered in the election campaign in an attempt to ensure the Republican candidate’s victory, the Washington Post reported, citing officials briefed on the matter.

A separate report in the New York Times said intelligence officials had a “high confidence” that Russia was involved in hacking related to the election....

A separate report in the New York Times, also sourced to unnamed officials, claimed US intelligence agencies had discovered that Russian hackers had also penetrated the Republican National Committee’s networks, but conspicuously chose to release only the information stolen from the Democrats.

A third report, by Reuters, said intelligence agencies assessed that as the campaign drew on, Russian government officials devoted increasing attention to assisting Trump’s effort to win the election. Virtually all the emails they released publicly were potentially damaging to Clinton and the Democrats, the official told Reuters.
You can choose to not believe these three separate corroborating reports. I choose to believe it. It's not like any official CIA report released to the public has any more cred than good investigative reporter sources.
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:17 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
No, we do not know that Putin hacked into DNC emails and dripped them out at convenient times. Please provide the evidence that leads you to believe otherwise.

Let's take a look here.

Quote:
Intel report: Putin directly ordered effort to influence election

Washington (CNN)The US intelligence community concluded in a declassified report released Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.

The campaign -- which consisted of hacking Democratic groups and individuals, including Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, and releasing that information via third-party websites, including WikiLeaks -- amounted to what the intelligence report called "a significant escalation" in longtime Russian efforts to undermine "the US-led liberal democratic order."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politi...utin-election/
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:22 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
In what way Russia is an enemy of the United States of America?

Why do you think Russia has been testing our air defenses and buzzing our naval vessels? One of my chapters has ties to the 477th Fighter Group, which has been intercepting Russian bombers with their F-22 Raptors. The F-22 in the following picture is from the 477th Fighter Group, 302nd Fighter Squadron.


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Old 18th April 2017, 12:04 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Why do you think Russia has been testing our air defenses and buzzing our naval vessels? One of my chapters has ties to the 477th Fighter Group, which has been intercepting Russian bombers with their F-22 Raptors. The F-22 in the following picture is from the 477th Fighter Group, 302nd Fighter Squadron.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-22_Raptor.jpg
Self-defense.
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:10 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Let's take a look here.
"With high confidence" is not evidence. It's speculation.
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:12 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Seriously, have you not kept up on this matter?

CIA concludes Russia interfered to help Trump win election, say reports

Reuters, The NYT and the WA Post all reported sources who revealed this was the CIA's conclusion.You can choose to not believe these three separate corroborating reports. I choose to believe it. It's not like any official CIA report released to the public has any more cred than good investigative reporter sources.
Why do you believe the CIA?
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:17 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Why do you believe the CIA?
Not the CIA, multiple leakers within their ranks.

But what's your alternative?
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:35 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well, trying to undermine NATO and the US and expand their power base in the east at the expense of them counts, I think.
How is Putin "trying to expand its power base in the east".?



Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm talking about Americans acting against their country by helping Russia undermine it.
OK


Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You can't possibly be this ignorant. We're talking about the DNC hacking to influence the elections and get people with Russian ties into the White House. How is this not acting on Putin's anti-Clinton bias?
The ignorance is yours. There is no evidence that Putin hacked into the DNC. How did Putin get "people with Russian ties into the White House"?



Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm reasonably certain because, unlike you, my opinions are not based on political ideology.
Look in the mirror, my friend. What is your reasonable certainty based on?
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:11 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
How is Putin "trying to expand its power base in the east".?
Did you miss the whole Ukraine invasion thing?

I don't believe for a second that you're so ignorant of world events.

Quote:
The ignorance is yours. There is no evidence that Putin hacked into the DNC.
You're the one who ignores the evidence, and then you say that the ignorance is mine? Beautiful.

Quote:
How did Putin get "people with Russian ties into the White House"?
This isn't skeptical inquiry. This is a ten year-old asking "why" endlessly.

If you influence US elections to favour the guy who has ties to you, and he puts other people who have ties to you into his cabinet, then you have "gotten people with Russian tiest into the White House". Stop pretending to understand or know none of this.

Quote:
Look in the mirror, my friend. What is your reasonable certainty based on?
Evidence.
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:41 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
There is no evidence that Putin hacked into the DNC.
(my bolding)
Why are you so sure of this?
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:06 AM   #513
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Well certainly Putin himself certainly didn't hack anyone. He just ordered to have it done. Because he hates Hillary Clinton and believed Donald Trump would be his bitch.
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Old 18th April 2017, 07:58 AM   #514
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There's a perfectly good Trump + Russia thread. How about we take this off-topic discussion there?
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Old 18th April 2017, 08:00 AM   #515
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From the Syria missles wag the dog thread, in hopes of getting off topic discussion moved here:
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Well certainly Putin himself certainly didn't hack anyone. He just ordered to have it done. Because he hates Hillary Clinton and believed Donald Trump would be his bitch.
He probably didn't even expect Trump to be his bitch, just the destabilization of the US government is an advantage to him.
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Old 18th April 2017, 08:12 AM   #516
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
The alternative is to not believe anything the CIA or any one else in power tells you, particularly when they are trying to start a war.
What's your evidence anyone is trying to start a war? Can all criticisms of any country be dismissed because you think they're trying to start a war?


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Old 18th April 2017, 08:53 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
There is no evidence that Putin hacked into the DNC.
Seriously? That's your conclusion?

Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
How did Putin get "people with Russian ties into the White House"?
Are you unaware of Tillerson's connections to Putin?
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Old 18th April 2017, 08:54 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
There's a perfectly good Trump + Russia thread. How about we take this off-topic discussion there?
I agree.
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Old 18th April 2017, 09:05 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Seriously? That's your conclusion?

Are you unaware of Tillerson's connections to Putin?
Come on. It's not like Putin gave him a medal or anything.
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Old 18th April 2017, 09:27 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Self-defense.

That is what an enemy would do and the Russians were doing it during the Cold War as well.
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