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20th December 2018, 03:38 AM | #641 |
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20th December 2018, 12:32 PM | #642 |
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20th December 2018, 02:11 PM | #643 |
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Baylor just asserts he knows my motivations and the supposed real meaning of what I post. He does so because he cannot argue against my point that since the gun is held in such high esteem in the USA it enables the police (and many citizens) to get away with claims of self defence that are clearly not self defence at all.
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20th December 2018, 09:46 PM | #644 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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20th December 2018, 09:50 PM | #645 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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20th December 2018, 09:51 PM | #646 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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20th December 2018, 09:58 PM | #647 |
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20th December 2018, 10:02 PM | #648 |
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Namely this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12534255
My first post here is on page 14 so you don't need to go far back to see my takedowns of Nessie. |
20th December 2018, 10:21 PM | #649 |
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I ripped this apart before and I'll do it again.
"Holding the gun in high esteem [by whom?]" is not a truth-apt statement. "Since the gun is held in such high esteem[by whom?] in the USA it enables the police (and many citizens) to get away with claims of self defence," is a non-sequitor. Who "holds the gun in high esteem?" Why are you using the passive voice? |
21st December 2018, 02:48 AM | #650 |
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It is my opinion, based on what I have seen, all the incidents I have read about and the studies of defensive gun use.
The gun is held with higher esteem in the USA than it is in the UK. My reasons for saying that are from what I have seen and read. The gun is far more part of the culture due to its role in helping to create the USA as it is today. Think of how it is portrayed in westerns. The UK does not have an NRA equivalent to encourage gun possession. UK gun owners keep quiet about their guns. Both countries have a right to possess guns, but the US and the 2nd amendment has almost mythical status compared to the 1968 Firearms Act. People can openly and proudly wear guns. That does not happen in the UK. When there are mass shootings in the UK, people react with horror, nobody defends the gun and the law is tightened and types of gun restricted. Mass shootings happen almost daily in the USA, with hardly any change and many still defend the gun, so a mass shooting does not cause much change, of any in the supply and sale of a type of gun. In the UK it is very, very difficult to get a gun for self defence purposes (a few police and military are allowed them). In the USA it is a major reason for people to want and get a gun. The US police are able to shoot people and claim self defence very easily indeed. Just read the many debates here to see how suspect many so called self defence shootings are. That just could not happen in the UK, where self defence, especially using lethal force is to a far higher standard. I believe that there is a connection, whereby the demand for guns and regard they are held in is one of the reasons why self defence claims are much easier to make and sustain in the USA than the UK. |
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21st December 2018, 03:10 AM | #651 |
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21st December 2018, 03:11 AM | #652 |
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21st December 2018, 09:11 AM | #653 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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21st December 2018, 09:51 AM | #654 |
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The behavior of our police might improve if the behavior of our criminals improves.
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21st December 2018, 10:21 AM | #655 |
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This is the best argument that you guys could come up with? LOL
The behavior of our police hasn't actually changed much since the inception of formal police forces began in this country, especially considering the proto-police groups and their raison d'etre. |
21st December 2018, 10:26 AM | #656 |
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21st December 2018, 09:53 PM | #657 |
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21st December 2018, 09:56 PM | #658 |
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21st December 2018, 09:58 PM | #659 |
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21st December 2018, 10:07 PM | #660 |
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21st December 2018, 10:10 PM | #661 |
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21st December 2018, 10:33 PM | #662 |
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22nd December 2018, 02:34 AM | #663 |
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22nd December 2018, 02:38 AM | #664 |
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22nd December 2018, 02:41 AM | #665 |
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22nd December 2018, 08:19 AM | #666 |
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This would be much more interesting if you could actually answer a straightforward question directly.
You might, for instance, say "It was clear to me that while the poster said 'most migrants...' what he meant was that more migrants choose the US than choose any other particular country, and while in hindsight it wasn't clear that I was pointing that out, it should be clear now". It's not clear to me that that was the case (it's certainly not how I read him), but if you were to make that argument I can see that it's possible you could make a reasonable case for it. Instead, though, you haven't actually made said argument, so I'm left both with my original impression of that other poster, and also not really being clear about what you are saying. The above is the best case I can make by trying to read between the lines of what you've posted, but if you'd be a little less adversarial and a little more upfront it would make understanding your reasoning much easier. |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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22nd December 2018, 08:24 AM | #667 |
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You argument seems to be a little circular. Guns are more present in American society, and you suggest that this is so because guns are held in high esteem, and the evidence that they are held in high esteem is their presence in American society...
I will just say that guns may be more common in America for reasons other than that they are held in high esteem, and if you want to demonstrate that that is not the case, showing their prevalence isn't going to be enough to rule out other possibilities. |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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22nd December 2018, 09:54 AM | #668 |
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22nd December 2018, 01:38 PM | #669 |
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22nd December 2018, 09:10 PM | #670 |
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22nd December 2018, 09:12 PM | #671 |
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22nd December 2018, 09:13 PM | #672 |
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22nd December 2018, 09:33 PM | #673 |
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22nd December 2018, 10:58 PM | #674 |
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22nd December 2018, 11:11 PM | #675 |
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22nd December 2018, 11:15 PM | #676 |
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I remember seeing stuff when I was a kid. I also saw a news story where police in the UK jumped into a Canal to save a box of korans. They don't do this for human beings. I don't know about 'mythical' but the Koran sure is held in high esteem in the UK.
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22nd December 2018, 11:25 PM | #677 |
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22nd December 2018, 11:29 PM | #678 |
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Way to miss the point. Anyone can make dumb generalizations based off ignorant stereotypes. One would think people styling themselves as "skeptics" would be above this. One would be wrong.
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23rd December 2018, 12:53 AM | #679 |
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In this thread: Baylor, the guy who started the "I'm a USAian who demonstrably knows nothing about the UK, but I'm going to educate you on how Sharia Law is being implemented in the UK and how anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" thread, complains about non-USAaians having opinions about the USA.
This is so damn tasty. Just precious. This must be what "winning" looks like. |
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23rd December 2018, 03:05 AM | #680 |
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I have no idea where you get the hare brained idea the 2nd is not regarded as one of the most important and defining pieces of legislation in US history.
By mythical I mean it cannot be touched, altered or tampered with in any way. It has remained exactly as it is now, since it first appeared in 1791. Even Sandy Hook was not enough to call for changes. When similar school shootings took place in Scotland, Finland and Germany, the law and rights regarding firearms possession where changed. |
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