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23rd December 2018, 03:08 AM | #681 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:09 AM | #682 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:15 AM | #683 |
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It is very much representative of the US.
Originally Posted by Baylor
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23rd December 2018, 03:28 AM | #684 |
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It's painfully obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. There's so much crap in this I don't even know where to begin. I'll just pretend I didn't read the rest of that garbage and only reply to this:
"By mythical I mean it cannot be touched, altered or tampered with in any way. It has remained exactly as it is now, since it first appeared in 1791."I am highly aware you got your "education" on the US Constitution from reading headlines of European propaganda rags. A 7th grader would be able to tell you how stupid this is. The constitution can be interpreted in many different ways, and has been interpreted in many different ways. Your entire point that the second amendment "cannot be touched, altered or tampered with in any way," is just simply wrong. It's been interpreted in many different ways since it was ratified. You just don't know what you're talking about. It's really that simple. |
23rd December 2018, 03:30 AM | #685 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:34 AM | #686 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:40 AM | #687 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:42 AM | #688 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:44 AM | #689 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:47 AM | #690 |
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23rd December 2018, 03:54 AM | #691 |
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The problem was that the statement in what you quoted wasn't the question that I asked and so your answer was ambiguous.
You disagree that the gun is held in high esteem in the USA? That seems at odds with reality. There are for example 14 million people who will claim to be members of the NRA. That's almost 5% of the population. What other organisations have equal membership in the USA? Triple A has 58m members I think so we can say the gun is probably held in less high esteem than the car. I mean its all relative but it would seem to be held in higher esteem than say: - the right of human beings not to be owned as slaves - the right of a woman to have autonomy over her body and reproductive functions - the right of individuals to have access to healthcare regardless of ability to pay |
23rd December 2018, 06:10 AM | #692 |
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23rd December 2018, 06:16 AM | #693 |
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You have just admitted it is not crap and you cannot counter what I said.
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23rd December 2018, 06:18 AM | #694 |
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Its ambiguous. Not my fault if you can't comprehend English.
Quoting something posted after your post doesn't help explain what you meant at the time. You appeared, in fact, to be disagreeing with the statement that the right to bear arms is enshrined in your constitution. And above you appear to be disagreeing with the statement asking if you deny it - which allowing for your poor language skills could mean you disagree with the statement that you deny it, i.e. you accept it. |
23rd December 2018, 02:16 PM | #695 |
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23rd December 2018, 06:44 PM | #696 |
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23rd December 2018, 08:15 PM | #697 |
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Sure. Guns and the second amendment are held in high esteem in the United States. I consider it to be a trueism, in fact. It really has nothing to do with the horrible behavior of police and the levels of abuse they regularly heap upon a mostly-innocent populace, however, which is my only point.
It's no use to bring up for discussion the true reasons for the levels of violence in the US because people, especially foreigners, just love to disparage the gun and their owners somethin' fierce! Utter absurd statement. There are thousands and thousands of separate laws across the nation regarding guns, ownership, where they can be used, how they're to be stored, how and when they can be shot, what kinds of ammunition can be purchased and used, and on and on. But, hey, keep thinking that just one more law will surely make a difference this time! The real reason cops behave the way they do is because of control. The government created, endorsed, and armed groups of people originally to hunt down slaves back in the early years and keep control of the riff raff -- which nearly always turned out to be blacks, Native Americans, other brown-skinned foreigners as well as people who were considered at one time as worthless as the blacks, such as the Italians, Germans, Irish, and so on. First gun control laws and first anti-drug laws were passed in order to keep the blacks and other minorities unarmed and in prison. White governors were very open about their racist reasons for enacting those laws and they are still horribly racist in intent, even after the language itself has been cleaned up. Look at the differences between powdered cocaine and crack cocaine for a great example. One is a "black guys drug" and the other is a "white man's drug". These are the real reasons but it's not as easy to try and solve and isn't as fun as tilting at the gun windmills I suppose. |
24th December 2018, 01:46 AM | #698 |
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24th December 2018, 01:57 AM | #699 |
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There are estimated to be 88 guns per 100 people in the USA, way higher than any other western nation (and possibly the rest). Criminals and gang members have no problems getting hold of guns. There are regular mass shootings, often kids shooting other kids.
There may be lots of local laws, but they are pretty much ineffective at ensuring a successful national gun control across the USA. Those who do hold the gun in high esteem, such as the NRA, spend a lot of time and money ensuring that the right to have a gun is preserved, despite all the problems with gun control. The best form of defence against all the bad people is the gun. Hence the USA allows and many people have, guns for self defence.
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24th December 2018, 04:43 AM | #700 |
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Great. We can agree on that. Because it seems to be in dispute by one poster here. My point was that if you are going to dispute that as a fact then you can't move on to whether it is the reason for police behaviour or not. And I made no argument yet for whether it is or isn't.
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24th December 2018, 05:49 PM | #701 |
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24th December 2018, 05:51 PM | #702 |
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We went over this. You even posted in that very thread that discussed this very topic (though you were only interested in acting goofy). Think about it, skeptic. What does the US have a lot of that Europe (at least for now) does not? Hint: it has nothing to do with "second amendment"
Put your thinking hat on, skeptic. It's not that hard. Come on now, you got this.... |
24th December 2018, 08:07 PM | #703 |
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American exceptionalism. We have a culture of violence in this nation that is based in large part on that same exceptionalism that says we're better than anyone else. The myth of the "rugged individualist" who "fights his own battles" and "doesn't let government push (him) around". The extension of that is the glorification of vigilantism, where individuals consider themselves judge, jury, and executioner. "He just needed killin' yer honor," being actually accepted as a defense against murder. A "real American" doesn't depend on the government to "do what needs to be done". And what "needs to be done" is nearly always something violent, up to and including murder. Combine that with the sort of fragile, toxic machismo culture that permeates a lot of American culture, where an insult to one's "manhood" or reputation is considered a capital crime, and you have a recipe for a whole lot of lethal violence. |
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24th December 2018, 08:10 PM | #704 |
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25th December 2018, 03:55 AM | #705 |
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25th December 2018, 05:28 AM | #706 |
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25th December 2018, 07:58 AM | #707 |
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25th December 2018, 08:44 AM | #708 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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25th December 2018, 09:10 AM | #709 |
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25th December 2018, 10:47 AM | #710 |
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25th December 2018, 12:50 PM | #711 |
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In 1968, Congress did some research and found there are 300 million firearms in the United States, in a country with a population of 200 million at that time.
The current US population is close to 327, million people, and quiet internal industry estimates place the number of firearms in the US at well over 400 million. Could be less, but could easily be twice the 1968 number. The fact is that we don't track every sale of individual weapons because each state has its own laws. In Georgia, once you have a concealed carry permit you can walk into a gun shop and load up because you're already in the system. That individual sale is not reported to the ATF, just the gun sales at the end of the year. The ATF tracks licensees only. The Government does keep track of firearms produced and exported each year, and those numbers (for 2014 as an example) are here: https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-rele...-export-report This is the ATF's report on Firearms Commerce in the United States for 2017: https://www.atf.gov/file/118216/download We be buying guns y'all. The most interesting number is the imported numbers. We are big on Austrian and German guns. |
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25th December 2018, 02:01 PM | #712 |
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25th December 2018, 02:02 PM | #713 |
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25th December 2018, 02:22 PM | #714 |
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26th December 2018, 02:00 AM | #715 |
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26th December 2018, 03:04 AM | #716 |
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26th December 2018, 03:25 AM | #717 |
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26th December 2018, 03:27 AM | #718 |
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26th December 2018, 03:29 AM | #719 |
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26th December 2018, 03:32 AM | #720 |
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You have so far shown yourself incapable of evidencing I am wrong. You have gone as far as to try and claim that Americans do not have the right to possess arms with an unattributed copy and paste and shown you do not understand tu quo que arguments, but that is about it.
I see you again edited as I replied. I suggest you need to do some evidencing before you reply. Lets start with your suggestion there is no right in the USA for citizens to own or carry guns. |
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