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Old 9th June 2016, 04:43 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Rape is one of them. I would give this guy a year.
I'm sure that turtle is shocked that you don't espouse his black-or-white, death-or-release philosophy.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:04 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Rape is one of them. I would give this guy a year.
Are you differentiating this guy from rapists or considering a one year sentence a serious penalty?
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:06 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Do explain.
Tends to have a lot of other dynamics at play. If was all about sex for example why would there be any need for women to fake orgasms? Sex is tied into power and control and so many other things all the time.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:08 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm sure that turtle is shocked that you don't espouse his black-or-white, death-or-release philosophy.
Clearly other than murder no crimes really should have any sentence more than a year or so.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:13 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Tends to have a lot of other dynamics at play. If was all about sex for example why would there be any need for women to fake orgasms?
"Sex" isn't just about pleasure. But it's about sex. What you just described is sex.

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Clearly other than murder no crimes really should have any sentence more than a year or so.
I'm calling you on this: could you quote anyone here saying that?

At the very least you could make an effort to link your conclusion to what people actually say. Even after a long time of being called on it, you continue this behaviour when all it does it make you look foolish.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:16 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
If was all about sex for example why would there be any need for women to fake orgasms?
People pretend to enjoy bad sex for the same reason people pretend to enjoy bad food or a bad gift - because it comes from someone that you care about and you want them to feel that what they did was appreciated. It's not about control - it's about sparing someone's feelings.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:30 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Tends to have a lot of other dynamics at play. If was all about sex for example why would there be any need for women to fake orgasms? Sex is tied into power and control and so many other things all the time.
I think your sample size is too small.
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:32 AM   #368
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Looking at the police report, we have a witness named Bolton who encountered a male subject standing over an unconscious female subject, taking a cell phone pic.

Bolton asks the subject to roll her over. The male subject does not do so.

Bolton checks the female subject's pulse.

This would seem to suggest that the victim was already lying there unconscious before being assaulted?
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Old 9th June 2016, 05:43 AM   #369
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Do you have a link to the police report?
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Old 9th June 2016, 06:34 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by AdamSK View Post
People pretend to enjoy bad sex for the same reason people pretend to enjoy bad food or a bad gift - because it comes from someone that you care about and you want them to feel that what they did was appreciated. It's not about control - it's about sparing someone's feelings.
Yes, all I can say is thank God for the faked orgasm. It has saved my marriage and ego[1].

[1] More properly, marginal sense of self-worth.
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Old 9th June 2016, 06:44 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by AdamSK View Post
People pretend to enjoy bad sex for the same reason people pretend to enjoy bad food or a bad gift - because it comes from someone that you care about and you want them to feel that what they did was appreciated. It's not about control - it's about sparing someone's feelings.
But not at all about sex. That is the point, sex is complicated and involves lots of other things like power and control. Why else are some of the most common fantasies in the world rape fantasies, or are they suddenly not about sex?
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Old 9th June 2016, 06:50 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But not at all about sex.
No, faking orgasm is not all about sex. Sex within a relationship is usually not all about sex.

Of the handful of female-on-male rapes I am personally familiar with, none of the rapists faked orgasm. So I'm not sure how faking orgasm is relevant to a discussion of rapists' motives.

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That is the point, sex is complicated and involves lots of other things like power and control. Why else are some of the most common fantasies in the world rape fantasies, or are they suddenly not about sex?
I'm appalled that you think the notion of consensual sex including rape fantasy has any place, whatsoever, on a thread about actual rape.
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Old 9th June 2016, 06:57 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
FTFY............. and the last never should be consistent with anyone's values!!!!!
I normally object to FTFY posts because they don't actually fix anything. Thanks for yours.
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Old 9th June 2016, 06:59 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
I normally object to always love FTFY posts because they don't actually fix everything anything.
FTFY
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Old 9th June 2016, 07:04 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by AdamSK View Post

I'm appalled that you think the notion of consensual sex including rape fantasy has any place, whatsoever, on a thread about actual rape.
And the reasons why one has fantasies of being a rapist might well illuminate why people rape you realize? With the fantasy and a lack of ethics you have a rapist.
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Old 9th June 2016, 07:25 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the reasons why one has fantasies of being a rapist might well illuminate why people rape you realize?
It might illuminate the reasons why people who have a history of rape fantasies rape, when they do. But, no, I don't think it's likely to elucidate a general pattern of motivation, any more than I think people who act out pizza delivery boy fantasies are a good insight into why people actually take pizza delivery jobs.
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Old 9th June 2016, 07:37 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the reasons why one has fantasies of being a rapist might well illuminate why people rape you realize? With the fantasy and a lack of ethics you have a rapist.
Isn't the number one female sexual fantasy is being raped? Do you want to apply the same logic to them?
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:38 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Isn't the number one female sexual fantasy is being raped? Do you want to apply the same logic to them?
For both sexes, the difference between rape and the fantasy of rape is as vast as the difference between war and LARP.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:49 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Are you differentiating this guy from rapists or considering a one year sentence a serious penalty?
No. Every person and crime is different. For the crime of rape I think the penalty for that crime should range from no time in jail at all (other measures) to life in prison. This guy I would have sentenced to a year in jail. That's what I think is best for society.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:52 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
He was found guilty of sexual penetration of an intoxicated person, sexual penetration of an unconscious person, and assault with intent to commit rape.

(The penetration was, as best I can tell from news accounts, with a finger.)
So let's say this was a drunken fratboy who passed out and his buddies stuck something up his ass which he had to later get surgically removed (cause they were drunk too).

Wouldn't we be laughing at that?
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:52 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Isn't the number one female sexual fantasy is being raped? Do you want to apply the same logic to them?
Sure the point is that sex is complicated and power and control is a big part of it for a lot of people.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:54 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Sure the point is that sex is complicated and power and control is a big part of it for a lot of people.
I see you sidestepped my question entirely.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:56 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Rape is one of them. I would give this guy a year.
Then by definition this shouldn't even count as a felony. As this was misdemeanor rape.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:58 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then by definition this shouldn't even count as a felony. As this was misdemeanor rape.
I don't care what you call it... I'm just saying I would give the guy a year. You can call it a triple felony. A super duper felony. An Ultra felony.... I don't care. I would have gave the guy a year.
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Old 9th June 2016, 08:59 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I see you sidestepped my question entirely.
I am applying it. The thing is that being a victim of a crime isn't what they want, but commiting a crime is what people who fantasize about comitting rape do fantasize about. They just have empathy and ethics that get in the way. As I had already said.

Why are fantasies about being raped useful to the discussion here at all? My point is that power and sex are intrinsically interlinked and trying to differentiate them is pointless. Sure rape is about power, but having power over someone is sexy too.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:01 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
So let's say this was a drunken fratboy who passed out and his buddies stuck something up his ass which he had to later get surgically removed (cause they were drunk too).

Wouldn't we be laughing at that?
I would. As I mentioned upthread I had a college job going to frat parties to take "party pix." I had my ponytail pulled, beer thrown at me, camera parts lost (this was back in the dark ages of mechanical cameras and chemical photographs), all kinds of dumb drunken behavior around me.

So, yeah, I'd laugh but still expect the assailant to do time.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:01 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
So let's say this was a drunken fratboy who passed out and his buddies stuck something up his ass which he had to later get surgically removed (cause they were drunk too).

Wouldn't we be laughing at that?


I, for one, would not be laughing at that.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:03 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post


I, for one, would not be laughing at that.
After seeing Jackass, I probably would.

If this guy was so hot to trot, how come there was no "penile penetration"? From the article it sounds like some other guys stopped it?
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:03 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post


I, for one, would not be laughing at that.
Nor I. I may find myself up before the beak on assault charges some time afterwards, however.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:05 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Nor I. I may find myself up before the beak on assault charges some time afterwards, however.
Well, there's a difference between a prank and attempted rape anyway, so yeah he should have gotten a stiffer sentence. Six years sounds right.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:06 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
After seeing Jackass, I probably would.

If this guy was so hot to trot, how come there was no "penile penetration"? From the article it sounds like some other guys stopped it?
My guess, and this is only a guess, is that he was too drunk to get it up.


ETA: If you believe Turner, they were making out, consensually, and she passed out. I'm not sure, but I think he claims he was not aware that she was unconscious.

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Old 9th June 2016, 09:11 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Well, there's a difference between a prank and attempted rape anyway, so yeah he should have gotten a stiffer sentence. Six years sounds right.
'Prank' and 'Sexual assault' are not mutually exclusive. I'm sorry to say that I'm not civilised enough, in this instance, to turn the other cheek. If I found the culprit, I would probably hurt them.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:14 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
So let's say this was a drunken fratboy who passed out and his buddies stuck something up his ass which he had to later get surgically removed (cause they were drunk too).

Wouldn't we be laughing at that?
Is this sarcasm? That wouldn't be funny either. That'd be deserving of a jail sentence.

A funny prank is photoshopping Nicholas Cage into a dude's family photos. Not forced insertion.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:23 AM   #394
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Schadenfreud is a form of finding horrible things funny because they happen to others. In the case of frat boys it's very easy for me to find sick humor in boorish behavior among them. When it leaks into the general population, not so much.

And being funny doesn't make it not a crime.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:30 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then by definition this shouldn't even count as a felony. As this was misdemeanor rape.
From Wikipedia:
Originally Posted by Felony
Note that the actual prison sentence handed out has no effect on this; the decision is based on the maximum sentence possible under law. For example, if a person is sentenced to six months, but the charge can be "up to two years", it counts as a felony, in spite of the actual time served being well under a year.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:35 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Schadenfreud is a form of finding horrible things funny because they happen to others. In the case of frat boys it's very easy for me to find sick humor in boorish behavior among them. When it leaks into the general population, not so much.

And being funny doesn't make it not a crime.
This. Maybe the fratboys I knew were different than the ones some people here knew, but the number one rule at a frathouse was never, ever get blackout drunk.
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Old 9th June 2016, 09:42 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
This. Maybe the fratboys I knew were different than the ones some people here knew, but the number one rule at a frathouse was never, ever get blackout drunk.
My brother has a rule: if you're unconscious with your shoes on, you passed out and you're fair game for mischief (not sexual assault, but drawing on your face etc). If you're unconscious with your shoes off, then you decided to go to sleep, and you're safe.
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Old 9th June 2016, 10:04 AM   #398
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two females, a counselor and a friend wrote letters of support for Brock. they are now both getting heat. one of them is in a band and the band is now getting their gigs cancelled.

how do letters to the judge get released to the public? why only letters from females as well?
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Old 9th June 2016, 10:17 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
This. Maybe the fratboys I knew were different than the ones some people here knew, but the number one rule at a frathouse was never, ever get blackout drunk.
I only became aware of the case recently due to Facebook posts about it, particularly the letter from the victim and complaints about the photo of the perpetrator. Apologies if the answers to my questions below are known, I didn't come across them in the articles I read:

What I haven't seen in the coverage is how the victim came to be in such a vulnerable position. Did she just get very drunk and end up in an unfortunate place on her own, or is there a suggestion that someone (Brock or someone else) got her drunk or drugged her, or found her in that state and took her to where the rape happened?

(Note: I'm not for a moment suggesting that she's to blame, just wanting to understand how it happened.)
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Old 9th June 2016, 10:22 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I only became aware of the case recently due to Facebook posts about it, particularly the letter from the victim and complaints about the photo of the perpetrator. Apologies if the answers to my questions below are known, I didn't come across them in the articles I read:

What I haven't seen in the coverage is how the victim came to be in such a vulnerable position. Did she just get very drunk and end up in an unfortunate place on her own, or is there a suggestion that someone (Brock or someone else) got her drunk or drugged her, or found her in that state and took her to where the rape happened?

(Note: I'm not for a moment suggesting that she's to blame, just wanting to understand how it happened.)
In her statement she said she drank forgetting she didn't have the alcohol tolerance she had in college.
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