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Old 16th August 2017, 08:39 PM   #1
sir drinks-a-lot
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UC Berkeley chancellor unveils 'Free Speech Year' as rightwing speakers plan events

Quote:
Christ said the campus would hold “point-counterpoint” panels to demonstrate how to exchange opposing views in a respectful manner. Other events will explore constitutional questions, the history of Berkeley’s free speech movement and how that movement inspired acclaimed chef Alice Waters to create her Chez Panisse restaurant.
(No, not that Christ)

I'd love it if this worked out. I actually saw Christopher Hitchens (RIP) debate Mark Tanner there about whether we should take action in Iraq. However, I'm not super optimistic, unless the Berkeley PD is ready to really dole it out when Antifa shows up again.

It'd be great to see UC Berkeley of all places lead us back to an era of free speech and consideration of opposing viewpoints.

Source: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...s=mcnewsletter
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Old 16th August 2017, 10:13 PM   #2
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A glimmer of hope
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Old 17th August 2017, 01:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
“Particularly now, it is critical for the Berkeley community to protect this right; it is who we are,” she said. “That protection involves not just defending your right to speak, or the right of those you agree with, but also defending the right to speak by those you disagree with, even of those whose views you find abhorrent.”
Wow, what a revelation for the bastion of free speech we call Berkeley! We need to listen to other viewpoints!

Enrollment down?
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Old 17th August 2017, 01:20 PM   #4
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They had a very brutal record last year:

http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/26/vi...rs-built-a-hum
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Old 17th August 2017, 02:01 PM   #5
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It's too bad Nancy Pelosi doesn't agree with the chancellor. A rally by the pro-Trump group Patriot Prayer is slated for Aug. 26 at San Francisco’s Crissy Field. The leader of that group has held other rallies and recently spoken out against white supremacy views, though critics like Pelosi have linked the group to white nationalists.

“San Francisco takes great pride in being a city of peace which cherishes free speech and the right to public dissent,” Pelosi said. “However, the National Park Service’s decision to permit a white supremacist rally at Crissy Field raises grave and ongoing concerns about public safety.”

Unfortunately for Pelosi, the Patriot Prayer group has 11 speakers scheduled for the rally, which includes 1 white person; the rest are minorities including the leader of the group. Hopefully, the right to freely assemble will not be denied by lying Pelosi.
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Old 29th August 2017, 11:03 AM   #6
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Well....that didn't last long!

After melees, Berkeley mayor asks Cal to cancel right-wing Free Speech Week
Quote:
“I don’t want Berkeley being used as a punching bag,” said Arreguin, whose city has been the site of several showdowns this year between, on the one hand, the left and its fringe anarchist wing, and on the other, supporters of President Trump who at times have included white nationalists.
I'm sure he'd feel much differently if a gay pride parade in Berkeley had far-right mobs beating people up.
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:28 AM   #7
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"The right of the people to peaceably assemble" means those people, themselves. Not any kibitzers trying to enact a heckler's veto. The government has no interest in silencing people because other people get violent at them. It shouldn't even be constitutional for them to back away from this duty, especially in absence of any evidence they are incapable of actually stopping the violence.
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Old 5th September 2017, 10:14 AM   #8
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Without proper debates how am I supposed to know if the jews are using the blacks for muscle in their destruction of the white race?
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Old 5th September 2017, 10:52 AM   #9
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Ask that same question in Nazi Germany, where the pro-freedom, pro-Jew side was silenced because the masses were outraged at their evil mouths.

It isn't about the value of the speech -- it's about disallowing government the power to censor anybody. Censorship, government having the legal power to silence people, is what helps things to go wrong in a loss of freedom and democracy.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:04 AM   #10
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
"The right of the people to peaceably assemble" means those people, themselves. Not any kibitzers trying to enact a heckler's veto. The government has no interest in silencing people because other people get violent at them. It shouldn't even be constitutional for them to back away from this duty, especially in absence of any evidence they are incapable of actually stopping the violence.
Exactly. Freedom of speech is specifically meant to protect speech that is unpopular and/or offends. Popular speech does not need to be protected. As Oscar Wilde once said (unless I imagined it or was otherwise misinformed), it is only through rebellion that progress is made.

The city of Berkeley is run by leftist goons, which is why protestors are allowed to enact the heckler's veto on speakers as innocent as Ann Coulter and Milo Yianopoulis.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Ask that same question in Nazi Germany, where the pro-freedom, pro-Jew side was silenced because the masses were outraged at their evil mouths.

It isn't about the value of the speech -- it's about disallowing government the power to censor anybody. Censorship, government having the legal power to silence people, is what helps things to go wrong in a loss of freedom and democracy.
Who is losing their free speech though? Free speech isn't a guaranteed subsidized stage to speak from.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Exactly. Freedom of speech is specifically meant to protect speech that is unpopular and/or offends. Popular speech does not need to be protected. As Oscar Wilde once said (unless I imagined it or was otherwise misinformed), it is only through rebellion that progress is made.

The city of Berkeley is run by leftist goons, which is why protestors are allowed to enact the heckler's veto on speakers as innocent as Ann Coulter and Milo Yianopoulis.
Exactly we need to remove the lefts right of free speech so that only the right can speak and the dissenting voices on the left are forcibly silenced. Actually letting ideas compete is wrong. Like having any form of counter protest is wrong.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #13
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Hmm if being yelled at and intimidated is wrong, think we can bring this new idea of free speech to abortions centers where that kind of thing is suddenly protected speech. Is harassment for attending a venue protected speech or not?

Oh I get it, it is only protected speech when it is right wing speech.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hmm if being yelled at and intimidated is wrong, think we can bring this new idea of free speech to abortions centers where that kind of thing is suddenly protected speech. Is harassment for attending a venue protected speech or not?

Oh I get it, it is only protected speech when it is right wing speech.
That is fascinating, truly, because there is an actual law that specifically pertains to access to abortion clinics.

Fascinating...
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Old 6th September 2017, 12:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Without proper debates how am I supposed to know if the jews are using the blacks for muscle in their destruction of the white race?
In the Blues Brothers' defense: Those Nazis were blocking a bridge and holding up traffic.
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Old 13th September 2017, 01:09 PM   #16
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So, apparently, Big Bad Ben Shapiro is scheduled to speak at Berkeley tomorrow. And, hilariously, Berkeley has said it will offer counseling series ahead of the event.

Quote:
We are deeply concerned about the impact some speakers may have on individuals’ sense of safety and belonging. No one should be made to feel threatened or harassed simply because of who they are or for what they believe. For that reason, the following support services are being offered and encouraged...
The impact some speakers may have on individuals’ sense of safety and belonging?!? Oh my stars, these are some troubled people. Violence is all but guaranteed, all that remains to be seen is how the Berkeley Police force will react.

But I hope the counselors don't run out of crayons, kittens, and teddy bears just yet. An even bigger event may be happening in less than two weeks, where Milo Yiannopoulis will be trying to speak again, along with Ann Coulter and, wait for it...Steve Bannon. This is shaping up to be the Super Bowl for free speech activism in the US.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
So, apparently, Big Bad Ben Shapiro is scheduled to speak at Berkeley tomorrow. And, hilariously, Berkeley has said it will offer counseling series ahead of the event.



The impact some speakers may have on individuals’ sense of safety and belonging?!? Oh my stars, these are some troubled people. Violence is all but guaranteed, all that remains to be seen is how the Berkeley Police force will react.

But I hope the counselors don't run out of crayons, kittens, and teddy bears just yet. An even bigger event may be happening in less than two weeks, where Milo Yiannopoulis will be trying to speak again, along with Ann Coulter and, wait for it...Steve Bannon. This is shaping up to be the Super Bowl for free speech activism in the US.
Berkeley City Council approved Police use of pepper spray during demonstrations. Not sure how this will effect Ben Shapiro tomorrow. Berkeley PD might want to avoid bad publicity after the street vendor ticket incident.

The Berkeley ANTIFA are alreading calling the Sept 23 event the "Fascist Speech Week" So we know where their hearts are at. But we knew that already.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
The Berkeley ANTIFA are alreading calling the Sept 23 event the "Fascist Speech Week" So we know where their hearts are at. But we knew that already.
I think for the Berkeley Antifa every week is fascist speech week!
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Old 17th September 2017, 03:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Who is losing their free speech though? Free speech isn't a guaranteed subsidized stage to speak from.

A free people create a government to secure their rights. Among them is the right to freedom of speech.

The government is hired to do whatever it takes to secure these freedoms against those who would take them away. "There might be violence, and therefore government will silence people" is an invalid thing to do.

And I will keep pounding this since some don't seem to be getting it: It isn't about the value of the speech (some are trying to argue some value in Nazi speech). Rather, it is about forbidding government the power of silencing speech, which is one of the primary tools of tyranny used by those in power to maintain their power.


Sir, if it costs money, and supposedly it cost $600,000 for this most recent speech a few days ago, then that cost's immorality is lain at the feet of the violent protesters, not the speaker, regardless of how vile.
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:12 PM   #20
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There is a problem with this. There are a number of conservative positions that could be a subject to debate

Anti immigration
Anti homosexuality
Anti Muslim
Anti atheism
Etc

Depending on who is on the liberal side, the conservative representative is actively hostile to their debate partner. Can you have a discussion under those circumstances?

To take it to the most extreme and Godwin, is a debate between a Nazi and a Jewish person on whether Jews should be killed legitimate debate?
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There is a problem with this. There are a number of conservative positions that could be a subject to debate

Anti immigration
Anti homosexuality
Anti Muslim
Anti atheism
Etc

Depending on who is on the liberal side, the conservative representative is actively hostile to their debate partner. Can you have a discussion under those circumstances?

To take it to the most extreme and Godwin, is a debate between a Nazi and a Jewish person on whether Jews should be killed legitimate debate?
Only if no nazi has ever changed their mind.

People are not immutable, as the far left seems to think.
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Only if no nazi has ever changed their mind.

People are not immutable, as the far left seems to think.
But changing people's minds isn't the listed goal. It is "exchange opposing views in a respectful manner."

If the issue is that the republican does not respect a whole aspect of your existence and identity, can they exchange their view in a respectful manner?
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There is a problem with this. There are a number of conservative positions that could be a subject to debate

Anti immigration
Anti homosexuality
Anti Muslim
Anti atheism
Etc

Depending on who is on the liberal side, the conservative representative is actively hostile to their debate partner. Can you have a discussion under those circumstances?

To take it to the most extreme and Godwin, is a debate between a Nazi and a Jewish person on whether Jews should be killed legitimate debate?
As someone who is proreligion I debate people who are actively hostile to me all the time! Why would anyone let the haters occupy the field?
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As someone who is proreligion I debate people who are actively hostile to me all the time! Why would anyone let the haters occupy the field?
This is a sponsered debate series. If it isn't a two party debate, there is no field to take.

And they are not hostile to your existence. Anti religious people are hostile to the actions religious people take. I'm a militant atheist and I have no fight with the shakers.

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Old 17th September 2017, 05:56 PM   #25
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I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a chance this event won't actually happen. Despite an extensive "speaker list" having been released last week, according to university officials, the on-campus venues haven't even been rented yet, and practically none of the required peripheral arrangements for services and security have actually been made or confirmed either. And the event is less than a week away.
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Old 17th September 2017, 06:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a chance this event won't actually happen. Despite an extensive "speaker list" having been released last week, according to university officials, the on-campus venues haven't even been rented yet, and practically none of the required peripheral arrangements for services and security have actually been made or confirmed either. And the event is less than a week away.
It's the Fyre Festival all over again.

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Old 17th September 2017, 07:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is a sponsered debate series. If it isn't a two party debate, there is no field to take.

And they are not hostile to your existence. Anti religious people are hostile to the actions religious people take. I'm a militant atheist and I have no fight with the shakers.
ah. well you walked back your "anti-atheism" claim pretty quickly,

Say you are a militant atheist, perhaps you should have a debate with pro-muslim, except that would make you anti-muslim.

Hmm, perhaps you will wish to review your entire post?
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Old 17th September 2017, 07:40 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But changing people's minds isn't the listed goal. It is "exchange opposing views in a respectful manner."

If the issue is that the republican does not respect a whole aspect of your existence and identity, can they exchange their view in a respectful manner?
Maybe, try it and find out.

It's a free country, so you can.
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Old 17th September 2017, 07:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
ah. well you walked back your "anti-atheism" claim pretty quickly,

Say you are a militant atheist, perhaps you should have a debate with pro-muslim, except that would make you anti-muslim.

Hmm, perhaps you will wish to review your entire post?
I never said I don't express views that are inherit hostile to classes of people. I have many.
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Old 18th September 2017, 04:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
A free people create a government to secure their rights. Among them is the right to freedom of speech.

The government is hired to do whatever it takes to secure these freedoms against those who would take them away. "There might be violence, and therefore government will silence people" is an invalid thing to do.
And that also guarantees them a platform. I am waiting for christian colleges to start hosting LGBT speakers. But oddly free speech is only for those on the right.
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Old 18th September 2017, 04:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a chance this event won't actually happen. Despite an extensive "speaker list" having been released last week, according to university officials, the on-campus venues haven't even been rented yet, and practically none of the required peripheral arrangements for services and security have actually been made or confirmed either. And the event is less than a week away.
And I am sure they will find some way to blame the liberals when it doesn't happen.
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:11 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And that also guarantees them a platform. I am waiting for christian colleges to start hosting LGBT speakers. But oddly free speech is only for those on the right.
Done and done:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/ed...s.html?mcubz=1
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:59 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I dont think Georgetown counts. You have to make it to the third paragraph of their Wikipedia page before it even discusses religious affiliation. That is in contrast to liberty University where religion comes up in the first sentence. BYU is the second sentence.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:16 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I dont think Georgetown counts. You have to make it to the third paragraph of their Wikipedia page before it even discusses religious affiliation. That is in contrast to liberty University where religion comes up in the first sentence. BYU is the second sentence.
'k

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Old 24th September 2017, 11:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And I am sure they will find some way to blame the liberals when it doesn't happen.
And they did. "They" meaning Milo, in an emergency press conference yesterday. The presser was held in Milo's hotel room.
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Last edited by Checkmite; 24th September 2017 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 29th September 2017, 04:36 PM   #36
sir drinks-a-lot
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This is hilarious:

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Old 29th September 2017, 04:45 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
And they did. "They" meaning Milo, in an emergency press conference yesterday. The presser was held in Milo's hotel room.
Hopefully the Anitfa crowd will just stay home and let Milo make an idiot of himself. Trying to shout him down would be the worst thing they could do.
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Old 29th September 2017, 04:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I dont think Georgetown counts. You have to make it to the third paragraph of their Wikipedia page before it even discusses religious affiliation. That is in contrast to liberty University where religion comes up in the first sentence. BYU is the second sentence.
Most Catholic Universities are low key about their religious afflition. You can pretty much go there without being pressured to Join the Catholic Church...unlike BYU and Liberty.
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Old 29th September 2017, 04:50 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a chance this event won't actually happen. Despite an extensive "speaker list" having been released last week, according to university officials, the on-campus venues haven't even been rented yet, and practically none of the required peripheral arrangements for services and security have actually been made or confirmed either. And the event is less than a week away.
And some conservatives would say that this whole thing is an alt right event rather then a mainstream conservative event.
I have not doubt one reason it died was because some of the more respectable conservative speakers listed took one look at some of the other participants,and pulled out quickly.
And Steve Bannon probably though it too small time with is new notoriety.
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Old 29th September 2017, 04:54 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
And they did. "They" meaning Milo, in an emergency press conference yesterday. The presser was held in Milo's hotel room.
Milo is pathetic, but I find the cheering by the Antifa crowd about the event being cancelled to be a bit disturbing. And it plays right into Milo's hands.
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