ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags language , semantics , sexism issues

Reply
Old 16th September 2017, 12:19 PM   #1
Sherkeu
Critical Thinker
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 443
Yale changes class names to be gender neutral

From here.

This type of change had not even occurred to me. Congressman and Postman feel male but somehow freshman doesn't, like mankind doesn't - probably because I have been in those groups.

Freshwoman sounds catchy!

Are there more terms that we don't think twice about that will be changed? I can't think of any, but I didn't think of this one either.

Quote:
After beginning to roll out the new terminology in formal correspondence early last spring, University administrators have now begun the process of replacing the terms “freshman” and “upperclassman” with the gender-neutral terms “first year” and “upper-level students” in official campus publications, such as the Undergraduate Regulations and the First-Year Handbook.

Chun emphasized that the memo was distributed to notify faculty and staff how the administration now refers to its students, without attempting to dictate to recipients that they use any specific terminology.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 12:28 PM   #2
GlennB
In search of pi(e)
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 21,033
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
From here.

This type of change had not even occurred to me. Congressman and Postman feel male but somehow freshman doesn't, like mankind doesn't - probably because I have been in those groups.

Freshwoman sounds catchy!

Are there more terms that we don't think twice about that will be changed? I can't think of any, but I didn't think of this one either.
'Midwife' will have to change to 'midspouse'.

'Husbandry' to 'spousery'

Is that the kind of thing you were looking for?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:10 PM   #3
Sherkeu
Critical Thinker
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
'Midwife' will have to change to 'midspouse'.

'Husbandry' to 'spousery'

Is that the kind of thing you were looking for?
Exactly! Had not thought of those quite common ones.

I looked up what male midwives call themselves and it turns out the name is the same. Mid= with Wife= woman, so the wife part is always a woman (for now!).

Ditto for husbandry. hus means house and the term means housefarmer.

Should the origin of a term matter for the purpose of neutrality? The modern 'sense' of the word would seem to be the priority for what they are trying to do even if it didn't mean what we think it means.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:32 PM   #4
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,304
Manufacture to Personfacture?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:42 PM   #5
Salerio
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
From here.

This type of change had not even occurred to me. Congressman and Postman feel male but somehow freshman doesn't, like mankind doesn't - probably because I have been in those groups.

Freshwoman sounds catchy!

Are there more terms that we don't think twice about that will be changed? I can't think of any, but I didn't think of this one either.
Fireman - firefighter
signalman - signaller

In the day (and it was too) I suggested "signal operative" nobody liked it and it was changed back to signalman <smh>
__________________
Salerio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #6
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,323
Yeoman?
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:55 PM   #7
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 11,361
Actually, I don't care. The same debate came up when fire departments opened their ranks to women. "Firewoman" didn't exactly roll-off the tongue, so they changed the name to "firefighter". That's OK with me, as long as they are describing the same job.

ETA: Journeyman?
__________________
Credibility is not a boomerang. If you throw it away, it's not coming back.

Last edited by John Jones; 16th September 2017 at 01:58 PM.
John Jones is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 01:59 PM   #8
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 8,373
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yeoman?
Depends upon who you ask. Did a Trekkie in the 60's ever associate the yeoman rate with anyone but a woman? I've yet to meet a female yeoman in the American submarine force. Plenty of them in the shore and surface navy though

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 02:15 PM   #9
GlennB
In search of pi(e)
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 21,033
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Exactly! Had not thought of those quite common ones.

I looked up what male midwives call themselves and it turns out the name is the same. Mid= with Wife= woman, so the wife part is always a woman (for now!).

Ditto for husbandry. hus means house and the term means housefarmer.
I learned something, cheers! So the terms are actually gender neutral, when you get to the etymology.

Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Should the origin of a term matter for the purpose of neutrality? The modern 'sense' of the word would seem to be the priority for what they are trying to do even if it didn't mean what we think it means.
That's a whole can of worms.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 02:37 PM   #10
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,219
And where will a fighter pilot sit instead of a cockpit?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 02:40 PM   #11
p0lka
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 701
mannerisms?
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 02:48 PM   #12
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,091
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And where will a fighter pilot sit instead of a cockpit?
The crotch.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 04:16 PM   #13
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,358
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Should the origin of a term matter for the purpose of neutrality? The modern 'sense' of the word would seem to be the priority for what they are trying to do even if it didn't mean what we think it means.

I'm a pretty progressive person, but I think the origin, so to speak, should matter. Not every "man" in a word is a reference to the male gender.
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 04:44 PM   #14
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,134
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
From here.

This type of change had not even occurred to me. Congressman and Postman feel male but somehow freshman doesn't, like mankind doesn't - probably because I have been in those groups.

Freshwoman sounds catchy!

Are there more terms that we don't think twice about that will be changed? I can't think of any, but I didn't think of this one either.
With regards the change mentioned in the OP, it makes perfect sense, as for the other thing I do remember a cartoon from back when Political Correctness first appeared where the dialog went something like this:

1: "We're Women"
2: "You can't say that, it's sexist"
1: "We're WoPeople"
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 05:12 PM   #15
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 22,362
I hope they will study Theirtory or even Theirstory using the gender neutral third person pronoun instead of the male one.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 05:39 PM   #16
Lucian
Illuminator
 
Lucian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by GlennB
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Exactly! Had not thought of those quite common ones.

I looked up what male midwives call themselves and it turns out the name is the same. Mid= with Wife= woman, so the wife part is always a woman (for now!).

Ditto for husbandry. hus means house and the term means housefarmer.
I learned something, cheers! So the terms are actually gender neutral, when you get to the etymology.

Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Should the origin of a term matter for the purpose of neutrality? The modern 'sense' of the word would seem to be the priority for what they are trying to do even if it didn't mean what we think it means.
That's a whole can of worms.
They aren't gender neutral. A midwife is a woman who is with another woman when she is giving birth. A husband was originally the male head of household.
Lucian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 05:50 PM   #17
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,700
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And where will a fighter pilot sit instead of a cockpit?
A vagina, obviously.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 05:51 PM   #18
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,700
History Itstory.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:06 PM   #19
LongFuzzy
Thinker
 
LongFuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 181
One small step for a person, one giant leap for people.
LongFuzzy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:17 PM   #20
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,219
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A vagina, obviously.

.
With the joystick right in the middle?

"Joystick" is gender neutral isn't it? Most genders get joy when it is involved.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:50 PM   #21
Sherkeu
Critical Thinker
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
They aren't gender neutral. A midwife is a woman who is with another woman when she is giving birth. A husband was originally the male head of household.
The words themselves are, they do not refer to the gender of the person. In practice, they definitely are. I think almost everyone hears gender in them (I do!). Proposing a new name would require a different argument to change them than Freshmen, or Firemen which are gender specific.

Like the word 'Captain' which simply means chief or leader. We do not change it now because there's no gender in it even though it was previously used only for men.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 08:14 PM   #22
Modified
Philosopher
 
Modified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,401
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Are there more terms that we don't think twice about that will be changed? I can't think of any, but I didn't think of this one either.
"Manhole" needs to be changed to "personhole".
Modified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 09:22 PM   #23
Sherkeu
Critical Thinker
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 443
Seems the Marines and Navy both adopted gender neutral job titles last year, removing the 'man' at the end for many to be more inclusive to women.

Some titles were kept, like rifleman.
However, ...
A month after announcing the change, the Navy decided the complaints were too much and restored all the names.
. There is immense pride associated with the traditional titles.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 09:50 PM   #24
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,541
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Manufacture to Personfacture?
No. It's manufacture for a reason

https://i2.wp.com/www.brainpickings....pg?w=680&ssl=1
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 10:10 PM   #25
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 22,362
Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
No. It's manufacture for a reason

https://i2.wp.com/www.brainpickings....pg?w=680&ssl=1
I think the emoji was there for a reason too.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 10:14 PM   #26
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 22,362
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Seems the Marines and Navy both adopted gender neutral job titles last year, removing the 'man' at the end for many to be more inclusive to women.

Some titles were kept, like rifleman.
However, ...
A month after announcing the change, the Navy decided the complaints were too much and restored all the names.
. There is immense pride associated with the traditional titles.
"As Chief Poop Deckman, I took great pride in ordering, "Man the Poop Deck!" No way am I changing that to People the Poop Deck. That just sounds silly!"
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 11:24 PM   #27
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,082
Are all these changes persondatory?
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 11:37 PM   #28
GlennB
In search of pi(e)
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 21,033
Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
They aren't gender neutral. A midwife is a woman who is with another woman when she is giving birth. A husband was originally the male head of household.

Meet the male midwifes


Sherkeu explained perfectly well that the word means somebody who is with a wife during childbirth, not a separate wife who is helping with the birth.

On that basis 'midwife' is as gender neutral as 'miner' or 'refuse collector'. 'Miner' doesn't indicate gender just because most miners are male.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 12:30 AM   #29
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,043
For dog's sake, people. This:

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I'm a pretty progressive person, but I think the origin, so to speak, should matter. Not every "man" in a word is a reference to the male gender.
Once more with feeling.

When the "man" in a word is a reference to gender, then I am all for gender-neutralising it. Firefighter, police officer, chess piece, access hatch. When it is not, there isn't a good reason to bother.
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 01:12 AM   #30
Planigale
Master Poster
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,358
Manual labour?

Many uses of the term 'man' actually originate from the term from hand 'manus'.

On the other hand werewolves are specifically male the female form is correctly a wifwolf. Virtues are specifically male and clearly needs to be retermed. Warrior from the same male root as 'were' and 'vir' needs deleting soldier is perhaps more PC.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 01:17 AM   #31
Planigale
Master Poster
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,358
Ok 'Mandate' is clearly a word that needs re-making. Not only gender specific but clearly not sapphic friendly. Personmeet? Does Theresa May have a personmeet to take the UK out of the EEA?
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 01:49 AM   #32
Planigale
Master Poster
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,358
Mailman doubly gender specific so clearly needs to be post-person. Or does post have phallic connotations?
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 07:12 AM   #33
TX50
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,740
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post

'Husbandry' to 'spousery'

Is that the kind of thing you were looking for?
No, because "husband" there is an old word for "farmer"; nothing to do with "a married man". This is precisely the sort of illiteracy that wants to change "history" to "herstory". ETA Not meaning to imply that Glennb is the illiterate one.

Last edited by TX50; 17th September 2017 at 07:15 AM. Reason: typos, bah!
TX50 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 08:09 AM   #34
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,219
Bosun mate?

Coxswain?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 09:39 AM   #35
Lucian
Illuminator
 
Lucian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post

Meet the male midwifes


Sherkeu explained perfectly well that the word means somebody who is with a wife during childbirth, not a separate wife who is helping with the birth.

On that basis 'midwife' is as gender neutral as 'miner' or 'refuse collector'. 'Miner' doesn't indicate gender just because most miners are male.
That's not what it means. The "wife" in "midwife" does not refer to the woman giving birth; it refers to the woman assisting in the birth. From the OED: " the original sense seems to have been ‘woman (wife n. 1) who is with the mother at childbirth’. With the formation compare German (arch.) Beifrau female assistant, especially midwife's assistant (1377 in early modern German as bijfrauwe concubine < bij (see by- comb. form) + frauwe (see frau n.))." Thus, "midwife" is a gendered term, just as "fireman" is.
Lucian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 09:39 AM   #36
Scootch
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 424
Woman should be woperson
Scootch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 11:53 AM   #37
GlennB
In search of pi(e)
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 21,033
Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
That's not what it means. The "wife" in "midwife" does not refer to the woman giving birth; it refers to the woman assisting in the birth. From the OED: " the original sense seems to have been ‘woman (wife n. 1) who is with the mother at childbirth’. With the formation compare German (arch.) Beifrau female assistant, especially midwife's assistant (1377 in early modern German as bijfrauwe concubine < bij (see by- comb. form) + frauwe (see frau n.))." Thus, "midwife" is a gendered term, just as "fireman" is.
A very fair point, and I retract my own point. "Midspouse" it is?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 12:00 PM   #38
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,855
Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
Woman should be woperson
Only if you're going to assert that women are people. I don't think anyone's ready to go that far, even in these crazy liberal times.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 12:23 PM   #39
Lucian
Illuminator
 
Lucian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
A very fair point, and I retract my own point. "Midspouse" it is?
It's actually rather tricky. There really is no way of making it gender neutral without using a new term entirely, but "midwife" is pretty strongly established in English. While "midwife" may not be gender neutral, in Old English, "wif" was grammatically neuter (the German cognate is das Weib). "Woman," which started out as "wifmann" (or "wifmonn"), was, of course, grammatically masculine, although it was sometimes treated as if it were feminine (i.e., it was occasionally modified by unambiguously feminine adjectives).
Lucian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 01:32 PM   #40
Whip
Muse
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 597
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post

Freshwoman sounds catchy!

far better than a stale one. amirite?
Whip is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:46 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.