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Tags language , semantics , sexism issues

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Old 17th September 2017, 01:38 PM   #41
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Official statement from The Ministry Of Acceptable Free Speech:
Quote:
"Look, we're going to just use MAN in the word Fireman and stuff like that like we always have, but it really means women too, mmmkay? Do you not understand that?"
Or use "woman", I don't care. My dick won't fall off if someone calls me a firewoman.

If you believe the news and this forum, you'd think that the entire country are either nazis or leftist crazies who want to kill each other. Cops are killing everyone. Nuclear Armageddon is upon us. Transgenders are wandering around aimlessly outside bathrooms too frightened to enter. It's smoke and mirrors folks.

What about Yale's own schools that are named after slave traders and were supported by them? Should they rename the schools? Did this school not gain its prestige and wealth from slavery? 'Sup, Yale?

Most people do not care where Yale got its startup capital. Most people know which bathroom to use too and can make that decision themselves. Stop making these attorneys rich.

For anyone who is seriously bothered by this - get a job, get a life, get some perspective, and shut up while you do. And you may want to duck too - that thing swinging toward your head is a pendulum.
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Official statement from The Ministry Of Acceptable Free Speech:
Or use "woman", I don't care. My dick won't fall off if someone calls me a firewoman.

If you believe the news and this forum, you'd think that the entire country are either nazis or leftist crazies who want to kill each other. Cops are killing everyone. Nuclear Armageddon is upon us. Transgenders are wandering around aimlessly outside bathrooms too frightened to enter. It's smoke and mirrors folks.

What about Yale's own schools that are named after slave traders and were supported by them? Should they rename the schools? Did this school not gain its prestige and wealth from slavery? 'Sup, Yale?

Most people do not care where Yale got its startup capital. Most people know which bathroom to use too and can make that decision themselves. Stop making these attorneys rich.

For anyone who is seriously bothered by this - get a job, get a life, get some perspective, and shut up while you do. And you may want to duck too - that thing swinging toward your head is a pendulum.
"Shut up", he explained.
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Old 17th September 2017, 07:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
"Shut up", he explained.
Finally, an explanation SJWs can relate to!

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Old 18th September 2017, 03:07 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
A very fair point, and I retract my own point. "Midspouse" it is?
Birthing assistant.
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Old 18th September 2017, 03:46 AM   #45
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Mansplain will remain.
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Old 18th September 2017, 03:54 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Mansplain will remain.
I also doubt 'bitching' will be changed to 'dogging'.
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Old 18th September 2017, 06:10 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And where will a fighter pilot sit instead of a cockpit?
Why would that need to be changed?
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Old 18th September 2017, 06:23 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think the emoji was there for a reason too.
If you click on the link I think you'll find that Noztradamus was in on the joke.
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Old 18th September 2017, 06:53 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I also doubt 'bitching' will be changed to 'dogging'.
Obviously not since dogging is already used.
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Old 18th September 2017, 06:56 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why would that need to be changed?
Cock is masculin. It should be chickenpit.
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Old 18th September 2017, 02:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What about Yale's own schools that are named after slave traders and were supported by them? Should they rename the schools? Did this school not gain its prestige and wealth from slavery? 'Sup, Yale?
You'll have to rename the entire University:

Quote:
The records of this period mention a flourishing slave trade in Madras, a trade in which Yale participated and from which he profited. He enforced a law that at least ten slaves should be carried on every ship bound for Europe. In his capacity as judge he also on several occasions sentenced so-called "black criminals" to whipping and enslavement. When the demand began to increase rapidly, the English merchants even began to kidnap young children and deport them to distant parts of the world, very much against their will.
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Old 18th September 2017, 03:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Cock is masculin. It should be chickenpit.
Chickpit. i rather like the idea of Maverick and Goose in a chickpit. I think they'd like it too!
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Old 18th September 2017, 05:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Cock is masculin. It should be chickenpit.
Except that it isn't, at least in this meaning. The word "Cock" as you are using it, as in a Male Fowl, comes from the French "Coq" and the old English "Cocc" both rooted in the Medieval Latin Coccus.

Whereas the term "Cock" in "Cockpit" in fact comes from the Middle English word "Cock" which is a type of boat, itself coming from the Old French "Coque" which derived from the Latin "Caudex". This word then lead to the formation of the word "Coxswain" for the master of the boat (Swain coming to Old English from the Norse Svienn for lad). The Cockpit become the place where the Coxswain ran the boat from, and then transferred to planes and spacecraft as well. So in this usage it is non-gendered.

(unless you mean the cock-pit in which roosters i.e. Cocks, would be placed to fit, and then the gendered term is acceptable because only the male fowl are used for fighting.)
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Old 18th September 2017, 06:59 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Interesting.

I would think that students there are too smart to want to tarnish their own "Yale" branded top-tier education even if a good case could be made.
I could be wrong about that.

My dad is paying for my niece to attend Harvard Business School and he would probably sue them if they changed the name!!
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Old 18th September 2017, 07:11 PM   #55
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Does anyone have any substantive criticisms of this, or is it all just attempted mockery while accidentally displaying ignorance of the roots of words?
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Old 18th September 2017, 07:39 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Does anyone have any substantive criticisms of this, or is it all just attempted mockery while accidentally displaying ignorance of the roots of words?
The latter. It's a fringe battle where the reactionaries can tee hee until their hearts' content.
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Old 18th September 2017, 07:56 PM   #57
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I think there are two mistakes here:

The idea that manual and history have etymologies that have nothing to do with male or female therefore they should stay as they are.

And

Words like freshman and bachelor and masters have etymologies which specifically relate to gender therefore they must change.

In most cases, words can change their meaning from their origins without any confusion, so the etymology is irrelevant.

ETA: It's actually one mistake that both "sides" - the reactionaries and the radicals - seem to be making.
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Old 19th September 2017, 01:03 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The latter.
That's not very personnerly of you, to accuse us of personipulating the discussion. It's just another personifestation of your strange Thai ways. Besides, I think personslaughter and personaic are great words.
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:16 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For dog's sake, people. This:

Once more with feeling.

When the "man" in a word is a reference to gender, then I am all for gender-neutralising it. Firefighter, police officer, chess piece, access hatch. When it is not, there isn't a good reason to bother.
So is the queen a chessman? The other pieces all seem to be male (except the rook or castle maybe) but it does seem odd to call the queen a chessman.
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Old 19th September 2017, 10:23 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Except that it isn't, at least in this meaning. The word "Cock" as you are using it, as in a Male Fowl, comes from the French "Coq" and the old English "Cocc" both rooted in the Medieval Latin Coccus.

Whereas the term "Cock" in "Cockpit" in fact comes from the Middle English word "Cock" which is a type of boat, itself coming from the Old French "Coque" which derived from the Latin "Caudex". This word then lead to the formation of the word "Coxswain" for the master of the boat (Swain coming to Old English from the Norse Svienn for lad). The Cockpit become the place where the Coxswain ran the boat from, and then transferred to planes and spacecraft as well. So in this usage it is non-gendered.

(unless you mean the cock-pit in which roosters i.e. Cocks, would be placed to fit, and then the gendered term is acceptable because only the male fowl are used for fighting.)
It was a perfectly good joke. Your dry, soul-less analysis killed it!
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Old 19th September 2017, 12:59 PM   #61
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Old 19th September 2017, 01:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And where will a fighter pilot sit instead of a cockpit?
Being polite, I will forbear telling you!!!!!
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Old 19th September 2017, 01:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A vagina, obviously.

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That does not quite work well as the term now is not penispit. Thus my posts wording!!!
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Old 19th September 2017, 01:30 PM   #64
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I always thought cockpit was a perfect term for fighter jets, considering that most of their pilots are *****.

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Old 19th September 2017, 06:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
So is the queen a chessman? The other pieces all seem to be male (except the rook or castle maybe) but it does seem odd to call the queen a chessman.
They are all chess pieces.
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Old 19th September 2017, 08:08 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Being polite, I will forbear telling you!!!!!
You're late. This joke's already been done.

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Old 20th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #67
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If we can agree that "Joy Stick" is gender neutral, since some kind of joy stick is used by nearly all of the 16 genders, than shouldn't the word "cockpit" be changed to "warm and moist mucous membranes"? Or "WAMMM !" for short?

You probably don't want to ask me why the Army truck is called a HMMMV.
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:35 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Does anyone have any substantive criticisms of this, or is it all just attempted mockery while accidentally displaying ignorance of the roots of words?
I don't see any accidental ignorance. There's a class of jokes being made that depend on adopting an ignorant pose. And there's some interesting discussion of the actual roots of words. Are you mad that people are having a laugh at Yale's expense, rather than taking them seriously in this endeavor? Do you have any substantive advocacy for this change?
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:07 PM   #69
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Why not just go with Frosh, an existing word? And upperclassmen and underclassmen are really just convenient words for writers so they don't always have to use the actual class names (Sophomore, Junior, Senior for upperclassmen, etc).
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Old 20th September 2017, 03:41 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't see any accidental ignorance. There's a class of jokes being made that depend on adopting an ignorant pose.
This is true, unfortunately this is one of those cases where the actually ignorant easily mistake it for another class of joke. This in turn can make it unclear which the joker is aiming for.

Quote:
And there's some interesting discussion of the actual roots of words.
Yes, which I actually enjoy a great deal. My degree is in English and such subjects fascinate me.

Quote:
Are you mad that people are having a laugh at Yale's expense, rather than taking them seriously in this endeavor?
I'm 'mad' because I suspect many posters actually oppose the effort without even understanding why they do, and because I don't have to suspect that they haven't presented a solid argument against it.

Note however, that if they are having a laugh 'at Yale's expense', then they are not actually making the class of joke you think they are.

Quote:
Do you have any substantive advocacy for this change?
Sure. Yale was requested to make this change because it would make some of their students feel more included and presumably market Yale's commitment to advancing at the same rate as conventions do. This might be small, but absent a compelling reason to not implement this small thing that will either have no effect or a small good, then it's an entirely rational move.

They didn't try to change the word 'history' after all.
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:35 PM   #71
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I wonder how such discussions go in languages where the words themselves have genders?
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:51 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder how such discussions go in languages where the words themselves have genders?
Interesting question.

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Old 20th September 2017, 08:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder how such discussions go in languages where the words themselves have genders?
Which reminds me of how I nearly flunked out of German.

And brings me to a question: What with all the possible 'new' genders, are we going to have to learn the plural possessives too?
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
This is true, unfortunately this is one of those cases where the actually ignorant easily mistake it for another class of joke. This in turn can make it unclear which the joker is aiming for.



Yes, which I actually enjoy a great deal. My degree is in English and such subjects fascinate me.



I'm 'mad' because I suspect many posters actually oppose the effort without even understanding why they do, and because I don't have to suspect that they haven't presented a solid argument against it.

Note however, that if they are having a laugh 'at Yale's expense', then they are not actually making the class of joke you think they are.



Sure. Yale was requested to make this change because it would make some of their students feel more included and presumably market Yale's commitment to advancing at the same rate as conventions do. This might be small, but absent a compelling reason to not implement this small thing that will either have no effect or a small good, then it's an entirely rational move.

They didn't try to change the word 'history' after all.
I seriously have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore. You win, I guess?
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Old 21st September 2017, 12:05 AM   #75
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I wonder if they'll drop this gender-specific fraternity and sorority terminology? What 's the word for 'a society of siblings? Google translate isn't helping me here.

Also, also this 'Greek life' piffle is a clear case of cultural appropriation. Shame on them!
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Old 21st September 2017, 01:08 AM   #76
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At first, I had a problem with this. But then I decided to person up and take it like a person.

After all, whining about this would be unpersonly and harm my standing as a person.

I'm not afraid to admit that I have identified as a person since my childhood.
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Old 21st September 2017, 01:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Why not just go with Frosh, an existing word? And upperclassmen and underclassmen are really just convenient words for writers so they don't always have to use the actual class names (Sophomore, Junior, Senior for upperclassmen, etc).
We don't even have those titles in Australia. It took me years to work out what the hell a sophomore was.

We call them first-year, second-year, third-year, etc. When we bother to refer to the length of time someone has been studying at all, which is hardly ever because it's generally irrelevant to anything.

I've never understood why American universities have these titles in the first place. They seem very silly.
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Old 21st September 2017, 01:46 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I wonder if they'll drop this gender-specific fraternity and sorority terminology? What 's the word for 'a society of siblings? Google translate isn't helping me here.

Also, also this 'Greek life' piffle is a clear case of cultural appropriation. Shame on them!
They would all be called fraternities. My sorority used 'fraternity' back in the 90's. Officially anyway.
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Old 21st September 2017, 02:59 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder how such discussions go in languages where the words themselves have genders?
As for Czech language, no such debate. Generally, when one needs to address group they use both variants of word. (by etiquette females first) If used in letter then another option is to use automatic insertion of correct word.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Why not just go with Frosh, an existing word? And upperclassmen and underclassmen are really just convenient words for writers so they don't always have to use the actual class names (Sophomore, Junior, Senior for upperclassmen, etc).
We don't even have those titles in Australia. It took me years to work out what the hell a sophomore was.

We call them first-year, second-year, third-year, etc. When we bother to refer to the length of time someone has been studying at all, which is hardly ever because it's generally irrelevant to anything.

I've never understood why American universities have these titles in the first place. They seem very silly.
Same in Czech language.
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Old 21st September 2017, 04:23 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder how such discussions go in languages where the words themselves have genders?
French is one of those languages, and I haven't really heard about this sort of stuff up here. Mind you, I might not be in the right context to make that likely.
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