Merged: Covid-19 and Politics Part 3 / Vaccine Nationalism

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

I suppose it’s now officially the AstraZeneca vaccine, not Oxford-AstraZeneca?

Same reason why Andy Murray is British when he wins Wimbledon but Scottish when he's beaten in the third round of the Uzbekistan Open.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Lplus

Interesting to see that the under 20s rates are falling again. Where exactly do you get that info from?

The graphs are a bit too small for me to read, but that statement agrees with the Zoe Covid data which showed the same.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Yup - my first thought too:

https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status...72339282382850

That links to a tweet which says:

Quote:

So he's banning mobile phones in schools. Interesting, so when all those children can't contact their parents in an emergency on the way to or from school, will he just brush off their safety?

I guess I'm old, but, seriously, how often do children have an emergency on the way to or from school? I used to walk a mile to school on my own, or with my younger sister, when I was 10. We didn't have mobile phones.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

I suppose it’s now officially the AstraZeneca vaccine, not Oxford-AstraZeneca?

I just mentioned that to Dad, about how I'd be a bit miffed if I was in Astra Zenica's marketing team

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

That links to a tweet which says:

I guess I'm old, but, seriously, how often do children have an emergency on the way to or from school? I used to walk a mile to school on my own, or with my younger sister, when I was 10. We didn't have mobile phones.

These days, not emergencies, but everyday stuff. My kids *did* go to a rural school 8 miles from our house (there were milestones).

It was useful to know if the public transport was playing up, or when after school activities were happening. Enough times that it was useful. If people have them, they get used to the increased options they facilitate.

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by The Don

Same reason why Andy Murray is British when he wins Wimbledon but Scottish when he's beaten in the third round of the Uzbekistan Open.

Where does the Pfizer vaccine, which was developed in Germany, fit in this analogy?

[Pixel42]

Banning use of mobiles in schools wouldn't necessarily mean banning them to and from school too. Just leave them in their lockers during classes.

[Captain_Swoop]

Oliver Cooper Leader of @CamdenTories tweets

@OliverCooper
Proud that the UK could help Australia to replace the vaccines after the EU blocked exports. It was kept secret to stop a backlash in the UK, but I think most Britons would be proud we helped our eternal mates.

[Captain_Swoop]

More than 700,000 AstraZeneca doses secretly flown to Australia from Britain

Hundreds of thousands of doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been flown from the United Kingdom to Australia but the source of the shipments was kept quiet to avoid any controversy in coronavirus-ravaged Britain.

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.

The need to source jabs from the UK underscores the difficulties Australia and AstraZeneca have faced in extracting supply from the EU under the bloc’s tough new export controls. It is now known that not a single AstraZeneca dose has been exported to Australia from Europe.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...07-p57hcl.html

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Banning use of mobiles in schools wouldn't necessarily mean banning them to and from school too. Just leave them in their lockers during classes.

I'm not sure how many students would be willing to trust their mobile's security to their locker. It's been nearly 40 years since I had a school locker but ours were trivially easy to break into.

[Pixel42]

OK then, they switch them off when they enter a class and put them away. Anyone seen using theirs during the lesson without permission gets an automatic detention.

[The Don]

I was happy to see what appeared to be a rational argument as to why the under-30s would no longer be getting the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK due to clotting issues.

The risk of clotting in young people is significantly higher but the risk from Covid is orders of magnitude lower so whilst the Covid benefit/clotting risk ratio for over-60's is over 40:1, for the under-30's it's only 2:1.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

OK then, they switch them off when they enter a class and put them away. Anyone seen using theirs during the lesson without permission gets an automatic detention.

What is being proposed is not allowing use at any time in the school day.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by The Don

Until phones are required to host Covid certificates for school age people

What's wrong with a paper-based certificate?

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

What's wrong with a paper-based certificate?

Everyone will have one by the end of the week.

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

What is being proposed is not allowing use at any time in the school day.

Tories are super-excited about local decision making (like headteachers deciding what's appropriate mobile phone use in their school) until there's a headline to be grabbed in the Daily Mail

[Darat]

What happens at the schools around here is that they have to hand in their phones in the morning and they are locked up. But as I said because we have so many of the comfortable class or also known as “rules don’t apply to me” parents around here they give the kids a phone to hand in and tell them to keep their proper phone on them.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

Tories are super-excited about local decision making (like headteachers deciding what's appropriate mobile phone use in their school) until there's a headline to be grabbed in the Daily Mail

Tories are like my old boss when it comes to local decision making.

"You can choose your new uniforms, you can have this red one or this other slightly different red one."

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally Posted by Darat

What happens at the schools around here is that they have to hand in their phones in the morning and they are locked up. But as I said because we have so many of the comfortable class or also known as “rules don’t apply to me” parents around here they give the kids a phone to hand in and tell them to keep their proper phone on them.

This seems mad on it's face, but when it's being paid for out of money supposed to educate the kids! I despair

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

OK then, they switch them off when they enter a class and put them away. Anyone seen using theirs during the lesson without permission gets an automatic detention.

"But Miss, I urgently had to look at FaceBook to see how many likes I got and then I had to look at Snapchat and WhatsApp..."

Next day, angry parent confronts the school.

[Pixel42]

Are there really that many parents who would object if their children were unable to use their phones during classes? I would think the vast majority would go along with it, especially if it's the school that's enforcing it so they don't get blamed.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Are there really that many parents who would object if their children were unable to use their phones during classes? I would think the vast majority would go along with it, especially if it's the school that's enforcing it so they don't get blamed.

Those rules already are in place in many schools. What is not in place is a policy of automatic confiscation regardless of the situation. For example, it's quite possible to think of situations where phone use could be incorporated into lesson plans.

It's the idea that Gavin Williamson knows better than schools or teachers.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by The Don

I was happy to see what appeared to be a rational argument as to why the under-30s would no longer be getting the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK due to clotting issues.

The risk of clotting in young people is significantly higher but the risk from Covid is orders of magnitude lower so whilst the Covid benefit/clotting risk ratio for over-60's is over 40:1, for the under-30's it's only 2:1.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

I think that it's worth pointing out that the risk of a clot from the vaccine is literally orders of magnitude less than the risk of a blood clot from (for example) taking birth control pills or taking a flight on a commercial airline. There does seem to be a risk but it's well inside the realms of risks we take for less reward.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Are there really that many parents who would object if their children were unable to use their phones during classes? I would think the vast majority would go along with it, especially if it's the school that's enforcing it so they don't get blamed.

This is n't about using it in classes. the minister was saying they shouldn't be used in schools at all in or out of classes.

[Captain_Swoop]

The Philippines and Australia are to limit the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab in younger people
UK regulator announces that the under-30s in the UK will receive an alternative over very rare blood clots

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

More than 700,000 AstraZeneca doses secretly flown to Australia from Britain

Hundreds of thousands of doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been flown from the United Kingdom to Australia but the source of the shipments was kept quiet to avoid any controversy in coronavirus-ravaged Britain.

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.

The need to source jabs from the UK underscores the difficulties Australia and AstraZeneca have faced in extracting supply from the EU under the bloc’s tough new export controls. It is now known that not a single AstraZeneca dose has been exported to Australia from Europe.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...07-p57hcl.html

It's good that Covid vaccine exports are finally being allowed from the UK. The US may soon allow a small number to be exported as well. The EU, which has shipped ~80 million, remains the most reliable partner wrt to allowing vaccines produced within it's borders to be exported. It's still the only viable source of vaccine for countries that don't have their own production facilities.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Are there really that many parents who would object if their children were unable to use their phones during classes? I would think the vast majority would go along with it, especially if it's the school that's enforcing it so they don't get blamed.

It was tongue-in-cheek but you know what some parents are like.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

I think that it's worth pointing out that the risk of a clot from the vaccine is literally orders of magnitude less than the risk of a blood clot from (for example) taking birth control pills or taking a flight on a commercial airline. There does seem to be a risk but it's well inside the realms of risks we take for less reward.

I can't agree with the 'run-over-by-a-bus'/'hit by a meteor' line of reasoning.

[The Don]

In an attempt to get more positive headlines, the spectre of returning holidaymakers importing new variants is rearing its head.

Quote:

People in England can start thinking about booking foreign holidays again for this summer, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56682226

The holiday industry is worried that the cost of the (necessary) Covid tests will be prohibitive:

Quote:

But the travel industry has expressed concern about the government's testing requirements, warning it could make holidays unaffordable for many travellers.

I expect that the government will either drop the requirement for tests or will provide them for free - subsidising the reckless individuals for whom a holiday is more important than controlling a pandemic.

IMO the best way to control the spread of Covid is to keep the movement of people down to an absolute minimum. There seems to be a widely held belief that so long as people are vaccinated then there's no risk but:

• Just because you've been vaccinated doesn't mean you're immune
• Even if you're immune, you can still carry and transmit the virus
• New variants are emerging all the time and these new variants may not be controlled by the vaccine
• Tests only show whether you've got a big enough viral load to be classified as being infected today, not whether you're in the incubation phase

I'm very concerned that a holiday season combined with a return to indoor socialisation will lead to a third wave. The UK government is already forecasting 30,000 Covid deaths over the 2021/22 winter. Then again, last year they were talking in terms of 20,000 in total and depending on what statistics you use we're currently at 6, 7 or 8 times that number.

[Puppycow]

Tokyo, which had just come out of a state of emergency only 2 weeks ago, is about to go back into what they are calling a "quasi state of emergency" again. Infections in Osaka are also rising sharply, and they've already declared one.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2...s-rebound.html