IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags acupuncture

Reply
Old 24th January 2021, 10:29 AM   #41
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,887
Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Which brings us back, yet again, to the lack of a biologically, anatomically, physiologically credible, coherent and evidence-based means of action for acupuncture...
After-the-fact it has been speculated it works something like a TENS device. But of course that would require a proper anatomical connection which there is not.

I should point out, however, that referred pain is a well recognized phenomena. It is also consistent from patient to patient.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 24th January 2021 at 10:31 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2021, 11:28 AM   #42
Carrot Flower King
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 736
"Speculated" is the crucial word there and is not what is claimed by the practitioners.
Carrot Flower King is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st January 2021, 12:11 PM   #43
Caroline13
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: So Calif.
Posts: 224
New 82 yr old member here, and I've had some really good sessions of accupuncture on my OA and damaged body from hip replacement mess. If I had infinite money, I would be getting more sessions to help clean up the damage done to my body.
Caroline13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st February 2021, 03:48 AM   #44
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,838
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I believe there was at least one very suggestible person who was able to have surgery with acupuncture anesthesia but this was not repeatable
IIRC there was a famous Chinese case of heart(?) surgery carried out under acupuncture, however the patient, although conscious had been given copious injections of local anaesthetic around the surgical site making the reality very different from the deliberately created perception of the event.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st February 2021, 04:50 AM   #45
HHellpop
Reluctant Galactic Assassin
 
HHellpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ylum
Posts: 361
I recently went for some physical therapy within a hospital/clinic organization (ie: not an individual practice). I was offered "dry needling" along with the traditional exercises. When I looked it up and how it compared to acupuncture, I was surprised to find that, in a health care system, only acupuncture required a medical license. Even if I bought their claim that dry needling was effective (which I don't), there was no way in hell that I would consent to a non-medically-licensed person plunging needles into me!

The exercises they taught me, on the other hand, were very effective!
__________________
"Vootie!" - Mezzrow
HHellpop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st February 2021, 05:25 AM   #46
Carrot Flower King
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 736
Aaah, yes, "dry needling": the latest attempt to get a "not really acupuncture, but nudge, nudge, wink, wink" through the doors.

From what I've read, its practitioners avoid all the meridian and qi nonsense, which makes it even more of a theatrical placebo, without even bothering to come up with a facade of "theory" to cover its quivering, naked nonsensicallness.
Carrot Flower King is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st February 2021, 05:46 AM   #47
HHellpop
Reluctant Galactic Assassin
 
HHellpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ylum
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Aaah, yes, "dry needling": the latest attempt to get a "not really acupuncture, but nudge, nudge, wink, wink" through the doors.

From what I've read, its practitioners avoid all the meridian and qi nonsense, which makes it even more of a theatrical placebo, without even bothering to come up with a facade of "theory" to cover its quivering, naked nonsensicallness.
Yes, I agree. Her claim was that it was supported by scientific studies. But in my research, the best I could find was "inconclusive", with others stating there was no difference from placebo. Fortunately, it was not mentioned again and we proceeded with normal PT.

"quivering, naked nonsensicalness" - Awesome! I'm stealing that.
__________________
"Vootie!" - Mezzrow
HHellpop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st February 2021, 06:03 AM   #48
Carrot Flower King
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 736
I have to say that some of my former colleagues in various clinical disciplines had a poor grasp of "science" and "research": several arguments with team mates who struggled with the idea of research not just being "it's in a book"; big arguments with our tutor right back at the start of my nurse training about how heritable psychoses are, in which they claimed that one of the twin studies papers said something it didn't actually say and then became confused when I talked about some pretty basic stats (it was basic enough that I could understand it...). Things should be better than they are.
Carrot Flower King is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.