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Tags atheism , China incidents , China issues , christian persecution , gosateizm

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Old 10th October 2018, 12:00 PM   #1521
Darat
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It depends on the religion. If you're talking about Christianity then that's broadly true. Groups from the Lord's Resistance Army to the IRA are alleged to have committed their atrocities as a result of their Christianity despite the indisputable historical facts demonstrating that this is not so.

However, when a Muslim group commits an atrocity, stands up and explains exactly how it was inspired by their religion, publishes a magazine in which they bust a ball stressing that they do these things because of their religion, and are studied for years by independent researches who confirm they are inspired by their religion... apparently their religion had nothing to do with it. Now religious motivation is just an excuse and this group of people would never be motivated by religion because, you know, Tony Blair.
None of what you have stated is true.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:25 PM   #1522
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
It's just that the Jesuit sophistry that the Big Dog was taught at the university he attended--that's what he says--is no different from pure trollism. So it's hard to tell what is really his game.
That is odd. Most Jesuits are very rational and like to harp on thinking critically about issues. The local deacon even warned parents that most of his graduating class from the local Jesuit school were atheist now. Yeah, critical thinking can have that impact.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:56 PM   #1523
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
None of what you have stated is true.
You're not going to make me link to precise instances of each point I have stated, are you? I don't have time now but if you insist, I'll do it tomorrow and prove you wrong.
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Old 10th October 2018, 01:07 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That is odd. Most Jesuits are very rational and like to harp on thinking critically about issues. The local deacon even warned parents that most of his graduating class from the local Jesuit school were atheist now. Yeah, critical thinking can have that impact.

But still Catholic no doubt.

Catholicism - the World's stickiest religion.
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Old 10th October 2018, 01:40 PM   #1525
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Your knowledge of the Bible appears to be as poor as your understanding of atheism.
The Bible states over and over again that god will intervene to protect believers who are in danger.
TBD, is the Bible wrong?
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topi...ut-protection/

Catholics are not known as Biblical scholars in the main. Here is a priest talking about this issue and explaining why. Well the explanation is somewhat foggy but then that has a consistency about it. I mean religious authorities do tend to make foggy explanations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HTHskfpN8
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Old 10th October 2018, 02:02 PM   #1526
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China officially legalized its "vocational training centers" for Muslim Uighurs. The UN says the centers are essentially internment camps where 1 million people are being held in mass detention and told to renounce their faith and swear loyalty to President Xi Jinping.
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1050079794531000320
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:40 PM   #1527
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Quote:
China officially legalized its "vocational training centers" for Muslim Uighurs. The UN says the centers are essentially internment camps where 1 million people are being held in mass detention and told to renounce their faith and swear loyalty to President Xi Jinping.
I watched some of the linked reports. Nowhere do they mention atheism as the goal. Instead, as highlighted in your own quote, they are demanding conformance and homogeneity to Chinese values, particularly fealty to the Chinese state and leadership, and forcing the Mandarin language on them. The Chinese consider them rebels against their authority - illegals if you like.

Just like the US treats "illegals" crossing the border from Mexico - they automatically jail them first and separate families to force some sort of societal conformance.

Birds of a feather...
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:42 PM   #1528
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China officially legalized its "vocational training centers" for Muslim Uighurs. The UN says the centers are essentially internment camps where 1 million people are being held in mass detention and told to renounce their faith and swear loyalty to President Xi Jinping.

Communist Chinese values = atheism

I can highlight too.
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:51 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
China officially legalized its "vocational training centers" for Muslim Uighurs. The UN says the centers are essentially internment camps where 1 million people are being held in mass detention and told to renounce their faith and swear loyalty to President Xi Jinping.

Communist Chinese values = Loving the Chinese leadership each and every day in a loud voice, removal of all skerricks of "rebellion" against the state by praying to someone else besides the Chinese leadership, loving the Chinese leadership each and every day in a loud voice, speaking Mandarin only, loving the Chinese leadership each and every day in a loud voice, being forced to join the Chinese armed forces, loving the Chinese leadership each and every day in a loud voice, going where the state tells them to, loving the Chinese leadership each and every day in a loud voice, and on every odd Thursday if they get around to it - atheism.

I can highlight too.
You can't read though.
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Old 10th October 2018, 04:08 PM   #1530
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You can't read though.
Huh. Guess i forgot i wrote all that ******* bull **** you "quoted."
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 10th October 2018 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:49 PM   #1531
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually it was to cure the lack of knowledge regarding what followers believe.

The other Good News? At least there has been some progress in recognizing that the situation in China (namely the human rights atrocities perpetrated by the atheist CCP) are something that is serious enough that the followers need "saving" which is something that we can and should work on together.
Repetitious and sanctimonious postings to an internet forum will fail save these followers of your god just like your god continually fails to save his own followers.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:03 PM   #1532
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Presumably just like the harsh Native American Schools set up by Christian missionaries from the late 19th Century to "civilize" and "Christianize" native American children?
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:18 PM   #1533
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Presumably just like the harsh Native American Schools set up by Christian missionaries from the late 19th Century to "civilize" and "Christianize" native American children?
Pro tip? Yeah, when one is really going all in to try to derail the discussion about on going human rights violations in 2018 like I seem to be the only one discussing, try this next time:

WHATABOUT blah blah blah the late 19th Century blah blah blah

Timely!
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:26 PM   #1534
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Pro tip? Yeah, when one is really going all in to try to derail the discussion about on going human rights violations in 2018 like I seem to be the only one discussing, try this next time:

WHATABOUT blah blah blah the late 19th Century blah blah blah

Timely!
Nail on the head amigo. They try to defend but they can't. Keep up the good work exposing christian human rights abuse and trafficking.
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Old 10th October 2018, 07:13 PM   #1535
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Huh. Guess i forgot i wrote all that ******* bull **** you "quoted."
Yeah, right. Remember that word: Sinicization. Now go look it up.

Quote:
More broadly, "Sinicization" may refer to policies of acculturation, assimilation, or cultural imperialism imposed by China onto neighboring East Asian countries.
Oh dear. No atheism mentioned.

Or this:
Quote:
A new clause directs the centres to teach the Mandarin language and provide occupational and legal education, as well as “ideological education, psychological rehabilitation and behaviour correction”.

The original legislation announced in 2017 banned the wearing of veils, “extreme speech and behaviour” and the refusal to listen to public radio and television broadcasts.

Beijing has spent decades trying to suppress pro-independence sentiment in Xinjiang fuelled in part by frustration about an influx of migrants from China’s Han majority. Authorities say extremists there have ties to foreign terror groups but have given little evidence to support the claim.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...illion-uighurs

Almost a perfect matching description! Rightly or wrongly, this is all about Chinese sinisization. Just so you are clear: Nobody here supports that or the methodology. It rings far too closely with the current policies of Trump's USA - MAGA. But what it is NOT about specifically is atheism. In fact it would seem atheism is irrelevant to the whole process. Even atheist Uighurs are being "re-educated".

Feel free to ignore me now.
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Old 10th October 2018, 07:26 PM   #1536
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yeah, right. Remember that word: Sinicization. Now go look it up.

Oh dear. No atheism mentioned.

Or this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...illion-uighurs

Almost a perfect matching description! Rightly or wrongly, this is all about Chinese sinisization. Just so you are clear: Nobody here supports that or the methodology. It rings far too closely with the current policies of Trump's USA - MAGA. But what it is NOT about specifically is atheism. In fact it would seem atheism is irrelevant to the whole process. Even atheist Uighurs are being "re-educated".

Feel free to ignore me now.
Oh dear, you managed to cherry pick quotes (not like my “quote” above that you fraudulently edited)

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of The Gulag Archipelago, said “Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy. It is not a side effect, but the central pivot.”

That is the new policy adopted by Xi and his atheist thugs.

Looking forward to fraudulent misrepresentation of what I wrote again..
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:00 PM   #1537
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you managed to cherry pick quotes (not like my “quote” above that you fraudulently edited)

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of The Gulag Archipelago, said “Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy. It is not a side effect, but the central pivot.”

That is the new policy adopted by Xi and his atheist thugs.

Looking forward to fraudulent misrepresentation of what I wrote again..
Solzhenitsyn... That's a Chinese name, isn't it? And a Christian apologist too, as I recall. So what he says about each and every instance of Communism MUST be 100% true and unassailable. No arguments allowed. Because he was a Christian.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:33 PM   #1538
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
They banned not watching TV and not listening to public radio? That's actually remarkably evil, if true.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:41 PM   #1539
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One of the reasons the chinese government thinks it can get away with this form of collective punishment is due to US policies towards muslims in the last decades.
Call it 'war against terror' and its all ok, after all, they are muslims, so they must be terrorists right?

I know it doesn't fit your 'evil atheists' story, but really this horrible repression is a continuation of millennia of chinese policy of subjugating its citizens to the state. You probably missed it because its not part of your crusade, but amongst those being targeted were also prominent party officials, international movie stars and, most recently, the head of freaking interpol itself. Xi is consolidating power and anyone and everyone percieved a potential threat is being purged or brought under control.

Reprehensible? Yes
Morally wrong? Yes
Because of atheism? No
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:03 PM   #1540
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That is odd. Most Jesuits are very rational and like to harp on thinking critically about issues. The local deacon even warned parents that most of his graduating class from the local Jesuit school were atheist now. Yeah, critical thinking can have that impact.
I admire a handful of Jesuits who were coherent and rational in defending a progressive sense of faith. But the hierarchy and Jesuit structure were the army of papal manipulation for centuries. "Jesuitism" is a derogatory term still in many non-Catholic settings.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:23 PM   #1541
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of The Gulag Archipelago, said “Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy. It is not a side effect, but the central pivot.”
It is the opinion of one of the most radical fundamentalist Orthodox of Russia. What are his arguments? If ever there was a political figure who had a sense of his responsibility to God it was Nicholas II; in the war Germany believe in guns, Russians in God; every evil comes from the disbelief in God; etc. An ultraconservative Orthodox that praised the old-believers... Not a great authority about religious issues.

Please, give reasons for your beliefs. Shouting out beliefs does not serve to impress anyone in this forum.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:28 PM   #1542
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
One of the reasons the chinese government thinks it can get away with this form of collective punishment is due to US policies towards muslims in the last decades.
Call it 'war against terror' and its all ok, after all, they are muslims, so they must be terrorists right?

I know it doesn't fit your 'evil atheists' story, but really this horrible repression is a continuation of millennia of chinese policy of subjugating its citizens to the state. You probably missed it because its not part of your crusade, but amongst those being targeted were also prominent party officials, international movie stars and, most recently, the head of freaking interpol itself. Xi is consolidating power and anyone and everyone percieved a potential threat is being purged or brought under control.

Reprehensible? Yes
Morally wrong? Yes
Because of atheism? No
He could always ask the Thibetans. They have had a few run-ins with the Chinese government authoritarians since...before I was born, anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibeta...reignty_debate
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Old 11th October 2018, 03:21 AM   #1543
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By the way, nobody seems too shocked when Western governments lock migrants in concentration camps, separate the parents from the children, shoot against them and order to let sink their boats with children and women in it. What are the causes of these monstrous crimes? Democracy, governments’ religion or capitalism? How differ our monstrosities from Mr. Xi’s monstrosities? The hypocrisy degree, perhaps.

How do you deal with this, dear Brother Big Dog?
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Old 11th October 2018, 05:43 AM   #1544
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you managed to cherry pick quotes (not like my “quote” above that you fraudulently edited)

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, author of The Gulag Archipelago, said “Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy. It is not a side effect, but the central pivot.”

That is the new policy adopted by Xi and his atheist thugs.

Looking forward to fraudulent misrepresentation of what I wrote again..
Using Solzhenitsyn quotes to support your arguments make about as much sense as using quotes from your favorite fairy book to support your arguments.

After all, while Solzhenitsyn had a great deal of problems with Russia, however Solzhenitsyn did willfully return to Russia and Solzhenitsyn became a vocal supporter of Vladimir Putin.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:00 AM   #1545
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Solzhenitsyn... That's a Chinese name, isn't it? And a Christian apologist too, as I recall. So what he says about each and every instance of Communism MUST be 100% true and unassailable. No arguments allowed. Because he was a Christian.
He was a victim of Unyielding Marxist Atheists, which is of course exactly what this thread is about.

I get tho that he criticized atheists which makes him persona non grata among the unyielding marxist atheist atrocity crowd, as we have seen.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:09 AM   #1546
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
He was a victim of Unyielding Marxist Atheists, which is of course exactly what this thread is about.

I get tho that he criticized atheists which makes him persona non grata among the unyielding marxist atheist atrocity crowd, as we have seen.
Wow. Adjectival overload. Perhaps a world record.

Doesn’t add a thing to the “argument” you are trying to frame, but a thing of beauty. Well done.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:14 AM   #1547
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
He was a victim of Unyielding Marxist Atheists, which is of course exactly what this thread is about.

I get tho that he criticized atheists which makes him persona non grata among the unyielding marxist atheist atrocity crowd, as we have seen.
Oh gee whiz!

Now 'The Big Dog' has declared that this thread is actually about "Unyielding Marxist Atheists".
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:16 AM   #1548
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Wow. Adjectival overload. Perhaps a world record.

Doesn’t add a thing to the “argument” you are trying to frame, but a thing of beauty. Well done.
If one were familiar with Xi's statements regarding the crackdown on religion in China one would understand that it is part and parcel of the argument, but it appears that one is not.

oh well, thanks for posting
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Old 11th October 2018, 08:45 AM   #1549
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
*snip*

Communist Chinese values = atheism

*snip*
Ah, nice. Thank you. This very simply and clearly distills the inherent lie in your argumentation right from the beginning of this thread.

Communist values (Chinese or otherwise) do arguably include atheism, but they are not it. It is even a rather weak factor in communism which is basically a socioeconomic system.

Atheism as such has absolutely nothing to do with communism. It implies no political or economic system.

You might as well claim that "Seats = Cars". While seats are a component of virtually all cars, they do not equal them. They do not cause them. You cannot assume a car because you have a seat.

Hans
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Old 11th October 2018, 08:57 AM   #1550
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
If one were familiar with Xi's statements regarding the crackdown on religion in China one would understand that it is part and parcel of the argument, but it appears that one is not.

oh well, thanks for posting
So we should believe the pronouncements of the Chinese government?

Someone here disagrees with you.
Who could that be?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
We have reached the point where people are credulously posting actual CCP propaganda
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
According to official party propaganda outfits where you get the "information" you have posted in this thread?
It looks like you only believe them when it's convenient for you.

Care to clarify?
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Old 11th October 2018, 09:51 AM   #1551
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So we should believe the pronouncements of the Chinese government?

Someone here disagrees with you.
Who could that be?

It looks like you only believe them when it's convenient for you.

Care to clarify?
Oh man... does not understand what propaganda is at this point...

Xi and his lackeys establish a rule that all members of the CCP must be unyielding marxist atheists is not "propaganda."

Citing to China Today to justify putting 1 million Muslims in camps is both propaganda and reprehensible.

This is so bleedingly obvious....
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Old 11th October 2018, 09:55 AM   #1552
Crossbow
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh man... does not understand what propaganda is at this point...

Xi and his lackeys establish a rule that all members of the CCP must be unyielding marxist atheists is not "propaganda."

Citing to China Today to justify putting 1 million Muslims in camps is both propaganda and reprehensible.

This is so bleedingly obvious....
If it is so reprehensible then you and/or your god should do something about the matter.

However, neither you nor your god have done anything about the matter.
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:27 AM   #1553
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If it is so reprehensible then you and/or your god should do something about the matter.

However, neither you nor your god have done anything about the matter.
I think you misunderstand. TBD has no real problem with Muslims being placed in camps. He is just upset that atheists did it when it should have been a job for Christians.
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:32 AM   #1554
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I think you misunderstand. TBD has no real problem with Muslims being placed in camps. He is just upset that atheists did it when it should have been a job for Christians.
Uh huh, and you post that in response to a post that does nothing but divert the discussion from the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China to me.

Kinda like your post just did...

Hmm, it almost seems like people who post about me and theodicity rather than the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China are the ones that don't have a problem with putting 1 million muslims in the camps, don't you think?
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:39 AM   #1555
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I think you misunderstand. TBD has no real problem with Muslims being placed in camps. He is just upset that atheists did it when it should have been a job for Christians.
I expect that you are quite right.

After all, if Trump had put American Muslims into camps, then there would be at least a few people saying that Trump is great and wonderful president.
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Old 11th October 2018, 11:21 AM   #1556
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Uh huh, and you post that in response to a post that does nothing but divert the discussion from the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China to me.

Kinda like your post just did...

Hmm, it almost seems like people who post about me and theodicity rather than the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China are the ones that don't have a problem with putting 1 million muslims in the camps, don't you think?
Well, you are the only one in this thread that supports the actions of the Chinese regime...
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Old 11th October 2018, 11:48 AM   #1557
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Uh huh, and you post that in response to a post that does nothing but divert the discussion from the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China to me.

Kinda like your post just did...

Hmm, it almost seems like people who post about me and theodicity rather than the actual ongoing human rights abuses in China are the ones that don't have a problem with putting 1 million muslims in the camps, don't you think?
No, the discussion is about:

"Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful"

Says so right in the thread title.
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Old 11th October 2018, 12:13 PM   #1558
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
No, the discussion is about:

"Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful"

Says so right in the thread title.
cool, cool, y'all don't care about those either (and the suggestion that Muslims are not among the faithful... well that is something...)
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Old 11th October 2018, 01:37 PM   #1559
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
cool, cool, y'all don't care about those either (and the suggestion that Muslims are not among the faithful... well that is something...)
To quote a frequent poster in this thread:

'k
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Old 11th October 2018, 01:38 PM   #1560
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
cool, cool, y'all don't care about those either (and the suggestion that Muslims are not among the faithful... well that is something...)
You are wrong again.

We just do not care about your faux outrage and those stupid stories from your fairy book.
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