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Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 1st November 2017, 02:50 AM   #241
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Local news media has noted that normally when police are arrested fellow officers turn out for the arraignment in a show of support. Yet when Detectives Martins and Hall were arraigned yesterday not one off-duty officer showed up.
I guess they were upset about them not stopping by the police station and giving everyone else a turn with the girl...
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Old 1st November 2017, 04:08 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't know how to parse this post unless it's just clumsy trolling.
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Old 1st November 2017, 06:00 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't know how to parse this post unless it's just clumsy trolling.
It's a twofer. Could go either way.

It might be ironically pointing out that if you or someone you care about isn't personally affected by police misbehavior then you don't give a damn about it because it isn't a problem for anyone you think matters.

Or it might not be ironic.

Just callous and ignorant.
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Old 1st November 2017, 12:57 PM   #244
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'Murica!

Quote:
The federal charges against Nucera relate to a Sept. 1, 2016, police encounter involving an 18-year-old African-American man and 16-year-old African-American girl. A hotel manager called police because he said the pair hadn’t paid for their hotel room the night before and were swimming in the hotel pool. The FBI affidavit states that their encounter with police “escalated into a physical struggle,” that both teens “resisted arrest” and that one of the officers used pepper spray.

After both teens were handcuffed, Nucera allegedly grabbed the 18-year-old’s head and slammed it “into the right side of the metal doorjamb,” according to the affidavit. An officer heard the 18-year-old’s head make “a loud thud” as it hit the doorjamb, the feds alleged. Officers said that the 18-year-old wasn’t resisting when Nucera slammed his head, but had “stopped walking for a moment to loudly complain.” The use-of-force wasn’t reported to the department.

Hours after the assault, Nucera was recorded telling an officer he was “****ing tired” of African-Americans.

“I’ll tell you what, it’s gonna get to the point where I could shoot one of these *****************,” Nucera allegedly said. “And that n****r bitch lady, she almost got it,” he said, referring to the 16-year-old girl’s aunt, who was present at the arrest. “****ing nipple hanging bitch. I’m so tired of them, man.”

Nucera allegedly said that black people should “stay the **** out of Bordentown” and referred to the 18-year-old as “****ing little, *********** n****r.”

In a separate incident noted in the report which occurred in November 2015, Nucera said he wished an African-American from Trenton who he believed had slashed the tires of a police vehicle would give him a reason to “put my hands” on him.

“These n****rs are like ISIS, they have no value,” Nucera allegedly said. “They should line them all up and mow ’em down. I’d like to be on the firing squad, I could do it. I used to think about if I could shoot someone or not, I could do it, I’m tired of it.”
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Old 1st November 2017, 05:21 PM   #245
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This happened six years ago.
Quote:
NYPD Officers Kenneth Moreno and Franklin Mata were found not guilty today of raping a drunken East Village [Manhattan] woman they’d been called to help. Both men, however, were found guilty of official misconduct for going back into the woman’s apartment three times without alerting their superiors. “The guilty verdict reached today involved a violation of the officer’s oath of office and merits immediate termination,” New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters at a press conference today, according to the Daily News, “Both officers will be terminated today.” Link

My point here is, let's not make this worse than it is. I'm certain NYPD, in common with most employers, takes a dim view of employees having sex while on duty, especially if it happens in an employer-owned vehicle within public view. Several issues are getting blurred here.

First, the officers in Brooklyn are defending themselves against criminal charges by contending they did not rape the woman in their custody, they had consensual sex with her. At some point, having admitted to having consensual sex with a woman in their custody -- essentially a prisoner -- and then failing to follow through with her arrest as a result, they will undoubtedly face department charges and quite likely lose their jobs. The article cited earlier noted that New York State has made it a criminal offense for a prison or jail corrections officer to have sexual contact with an inmate. That the legislature has never passed a law making it specifically illegal for a police officer to have sex with a person in their custody -- the legislators probably didn't think it was necessary for one thing -- but now such a law has already been introduced.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 12:05 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The article cited earlier noted that New York State has made it a criminal offense for a prison or jail corrections officer to have sexual contact with an inmate. That the legislature has never passed a law making it specifically illegal for a police officer to have sex with a person in their custody -- the legislators probably didn't think it was necessary for one thing -- but now such a law has already been introduced.
I wonder why they didn't include police officers and people under arrest or detention. Under Swedish law the comparable offence doest explicitly cover any specific profession but instead prohibits anyone from "making someone partake in or endure a sexual act by seriously abusing their position of authority".

It might not be absolutely illegal but pressuring detainees into sex would be illegal no matter your profession.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 06:26 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I wonder why they didn't include police officers and people under arrest or detention. Under Swedish law the comparable offence doest explicitly cover any specific profession but instead prohibits anyone from "making someone partake in or endure a sexual act by seriously abusing their position of authority".

It might not be absolutely illegal but pressuring detainees into sex would be illegal no matter your profession.
Not even that. ACCEPTING sexual favors is wrong, even if the person in authority doesn't "pressure" the other person to do it.

If a male officer arrests a woman, and she offers a blow job if he'll let her go, his response must be no. Does not matter if he suggested it or she did, the answer is NO.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 06:32 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Charming lad.
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Old 7th November 2017, 09:40 AM   #249
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St. Louis is voting on the following proposition today:
Quote:
Shall St. Louis County impose a one-half of one percent sales tax for the purpose of providing funds to improve police and public safety in St. Louis County and each of the municipalities within St. Louis County?
(discussion)

There are times I really wish we could vote:
  • Yes
  • No.
  • No and here is why: __________

I am all for paying the police better and getting more officers, but I also want some much needed reform to go along with that money. Hell, I'd be cool with raising the sales tax much more if it meant reforms could go along with it.
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Old 8th November 2017, 08:09 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
St. Louis is voting on the following proposition today:

(discussion)
Which passed, pretty much as expected.
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Old 8th November 2017, 10:13 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
.....
My point here is, let's not make this worse than it is. I'm certain NYPD, in common with most employers, takes a dim view of employees having sex while on duty, especially if it happens in an employer-owned vehicle within public view. Several issues are getting blurred here.
.....
Do you have any doubts about the woman's story? It sounds like the evidence that the cops raped their prisoner is overwhelming. The very fact that the cops told the victim's friends not to follow them, instead of "You can pick her up at the precinct. We'll show you the way," is compelling.
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Old 9th November 2017, 08:05 AM   #252
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I've been following a local story that, in magnitude, doesn't even approach some of the worst abuses that St. Louis has had.

St. Louis Man Ticketed After Honking at Cop Stopped at a Green Light

tl;dr:
  1. Car A is just sitting when the light turns green.
  2. Car B beeps his horn.
  3. Car A moves forward a bit and then stops again.
  4. Car B beeps again.
  5. Car A starts inching forward really slowly.
  6. Car B lays on the horn.
  7. Car A turns out to be a cop in an unmarked vehicle who then pulls Car B over for 45 minutes with much rage and threats, the first minute of which is caught on video.

Plot twist: Car A driver, Detective Steve Burle, has a history of being sued for excessive force (or being present when it happened and not intervening) and is on the Force Investigation Unit, which is responsible for investigating when police kills or injures someone.

That second article agrees with my position:
Quote:
Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner has expressed recent doubts about the Force Investigation Unit, telling the Post-Dispatch in early October that she would prefer to have an independent team of investigators that report to her office for all matters related to police shootings. Gardner claims the Force Investigation Unit has intentionally withheld evidence in as many as 25 police shooting cases, including more than a dozen this year.

[...]

“It is no longer acceptable for police to be investigating themselves,” Gardner says.

Former Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce, who brought the murder charges against former St. Louis officer Jason Stockley before retiring, echoed Gardner's thoughts in an October interview with the RFT.

"I’ve become convinced," she wrote, "due to the Stockley case and others, that the SLMPD cannot investigate itself effectively."
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Old 9th November 2017, 09:28 AM   #253
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The magnitude may not be great, but it shows even in minor instances there are police officers who behave appallingly and out and out bullies unfit for the job.
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Old 9th November 2017, 10:51 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I've been following a local story that...
Side story: Turns out the driver is a former coworker of one my current coworkers. I'm trying to get more information about whether he is, in fact, a "********** jackoff".


eta: Apparently, he is not.
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Old 9th November 2017, 01:28 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Side story: Turns out the driver is a former coworker of one my current coworkers. I'm trying to get more information about whether he is, in fact, a "********** jackoff".


eta: Apparently, he is not.
I would think that the terms in the man's sobriquet would be mutually exclusive, or at least require a pause. Is the officer totally unlearned in the art of wooing?
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Old 15th November 2017, 12:41 PM   #256
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Referring back to the events following the Stockley verdict:

Federal judge restricts St. Louis police conduct during protests
Quote:
U.S. District Judge Catherine Perry's order says that police can't declare an "unlawful assembly" and enforce it against those "engaged in expressive activity, unless the persons are acting in concert to pose an imminent threat to use force or violence or to violate a criminal law with force or violence."

Police also can't use that unlawful assembly order or threaten the use of chemical agents to punish protesters for exercising their rights, she wrote.
Quote:
She said a controversial police "kettle" on Sept. 17 at the intersection of Washington Avenue and Tucker Boulevard “cannot meet constitutional standards.” It was conducted without evidence of “force or violence to officers or property in this mixed commercial and residential area.” The scene was “calm,” she wrote based on witnesses and videos, with no reported violence for hours before the kettle. Some protesters were “voicing their displeasure with police,” but others in the intersection were bystanders.
I note, again, how it appears to take independent review to get any accountability.
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Old 18th November 2017, 04:35 PM   #257
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Why do people keep doing this?

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A white Virginia sheriff’s deputy has been reassigned out of her job in the local school system after attending a Halloween party in blackface as part of a costume portraying Rep. Frederica Wilson (D-Fla.).
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Old 18th November 2017, 08:32 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Doing what? playing some other persona on Halloween? Isn't that the idea?

And it wasn't actually "blackface" within the meaning of the Act.
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Old 26th November 2017, 04:00 AM   #259
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Just for a change, some Australian cops who tried to force a miscarriage of justice after beating someone up

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australi...e-about-554000

They are still employed and one has been promoted.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 09:45 AM   #260
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This article helps to explain why the police feel confident in shootings. They were traned that way and have legal support

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/u...ater.html?_r=1

"Training Officers to Shoot First, and He Will Answer Questions Later

The shooting looked bad. But that is when the professor is at his best. A black motorist, pulled to the side of the road for a turn-signal violation, had stuffed his hand into his pocket. The white officer yelled for him to take it out. When the driver started to comply, the officer shot him dead.
The driver was unarmed.

Taking the stand at a public inquest, William J. Lewinski, the psychology professor, explained that the officer had no choice but to act.
“In simple terms,” the district attorney in Portland, Ore., asked, “if I see the gun, I’m dead?”
“In simple terms, that’s it,” Dr. Lewinski replied.
When police officers shoot people under questionable circumstances, Dr. Lewinski is often there to defend their actions. Among the most influential voices on the subject, he has testified in or consulted in nearly 200 cases over the last decade or so and has helped justify countless shootings around the country.
His conclusions are consistent: The officer acted appropriately, even when shooting an unarmed person. Even when shooting someone in the back. Even when witness testimony, forensic evidence or video footage contradicts the officer’s story."
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Old 8th December 2017, 06:42 AM   #261
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What about this one?

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-p...daniel-shaver/

Warning. Graphic killing just after four minutes in. You may want to stop before that.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3269247
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:27 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What about this one?

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-p...daniel-shaver/

Warning. Graphic killing just after four minutes in. You may want to stop before that.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3269247

Jesus Christ.

I have no words for this one.
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:35 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What about this one?

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-p...daniel-shaver/

Warning. Graphic killing just after four minutes in. You may want to stop before that.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3269247
I haven't watched that for that reason however.

Quote:
And this is interesting, though not admitted in the case -- Brailsford's AR-15 rifle had the words "You're **********" inscribed on the side of it.
You know what - I think that should be considered as evidence.
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:45 AM   #264
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Inside a secret 2014 list of hundreds of L.A. deputies with histories of misconduct

Quote:
It was a critical piece of evidence: an inmate’s shirt, bloodied from a jailhouse brawl.

When it went missing, Deputy Jose Ovalle had an idea.

He picked out a similar shirt, doused it with taco sauce and snapped a photograph, which was booked into evidence with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, law enforcement records show.

When confronted later, the deputy admitted to faking the blood.
Ovalle kept his job, but his name was placed on a secret Sheriff’s Department list that now includes about 300 deputies with histories of dishonesty and similar misconduct, a Los Angeles Times investigation has found. The list is so tightly controlled that it can be seen by only a handful of high-ranking sheriff’s officials. Not even prosecutors can access it.

...

Law enforcement and court records show:

One deputy on the list endangered the lives of fellow officers and an undercover informant when he warned a suspected drug dealer’s girlfriend that the dealer was being watched by police.

Another pepper-sprayed an elderly man in the face and then wrote a false report to justify arresting him.

A third pulled over a stranger and received oral sex from her in his patrol car.
The list also includes several deputies still with the department who were convicted of crimes — one for filing a false arrest report and another who was charged with domestic battery but pleaded no contest to a lesser offense. In other cases, prosecutors sharply criticized the deputies’ actions but declined to pursue criminal charges against them.

...

Casey Dowling was a 28-year-old deputy more than two decades ago when a 14-year-old girl informed him that she had been the victim of a knife attack. The girl said Dowling told her to sit in his patrol car and then reached under her blouse and bra and touched her breast, according to a district attorney’s memo written at the time.

The girl said Dowling drove her home and followed her into her bedroom. There, she said, he asked if she was wearing panties and touched her again under her bra, according to the memo. Her mother said she saw Dowling in the bedroom, but walked away when the deputy moved toward the door as if he were leaving.

....

Civil service records show that the Sheriff’s Department discharged Dowling in 1997 for “immoral conduct” and that he filed an appeal.

What happened is confidential, but Dowling got his job back.
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Old 8th December 2017, 03:33 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Jesus Christ.

I have no words for this one.

The footage is from a hotel corridor. I understand the victim and his colleague were in town for a business conference. They were in the business of pest control. They took a couple of clients back to their hotel room for supper and had pizza and a drink. Maybe enough to be slightly tipsy, and why not, they weren't driving.

Part of their stock-in-trade was pellet guns, I imagine for shooting rodents. They had a couple with them and took them out to show them to the clients. Someone else saw this through the window and thought that guns were being brandished. They called the cops.

The victim was essentially being given a series of ever-more-impossible commands that amounted to a sadistic game of Twister. Cross your ankles behind you, raise your arms straight above your head, crawl towards me. Of course he lowered his arms because you can't crawl in that position - not even if you're sober and the victim probably wasn't. He was pleading, "Please don't shoot me." The cop shot him. As far as I can see the victim was white and respectable-looking, so it wasn't even racism.
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Old 8th December 2017, 06:31 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What about this one?

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-p...daniel-shaver/

Warning. Graphic killing just after four minutes in. You may want to stop before that.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3269247
It gets worse.

Quote:
Philip Brailsford shot and killed 26-year-old Daniel Shaver in the hallway of a hotel in early 2016.

Bodycam footage of the incident, released after the verdict, showed Mr Shaver on his knees asking officers not to shoot him just before he was killed.

Mr Brailsford was acquitted of murder and a lesser manslaughter charge.
Mr Shaver was shot five times with a semi-automatic rifle as he crawled towards the officers, sobbing.

Prosecutors argued that the officer had responded appropriately, according to his training, when Mr Shaver reached towards his waistband - because he believed there was a concealed firearm there.
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Old 8th December 2017, 06:51 PM   #267
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Cops show up, shoot your dog. And order you to behead it.

Oh, wait -- they gave him options.

Warning: Autoplay.
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Old 8th December 2017, 08:14 PM   #268
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As I keep saying, skin color does not offer immunity, having some dude screaming and pointing a gun at you is nerve-wracking, and the worst indicator isn't skin color, it's mental illness.

But yeah, that's often what it's like. "Put your hands up. Do it or I'll shoot you!!! Now crawl!" Guess wrong, and you may be dead. Ask "Which one?" and you may be dead. So, now what?

And again, this isn't about cops, it's about bad cops. Some cops in the US are legit heroes. The issue is, what do we do with the guys who scream contradictory commands at people while pointing guns at them?

But it was okay to drive up, jump out of a car, and blast Tamir Rice, right? Seriously, this was a white male. Now, let this be a black or native Amdedrican male, and think of how this would play out then.

(As for the idiot demanding that the dog's owner cut off his head - that, at least, is obvious. I wouldn't even know how to do so, an would have no tool to do it with.)

Last edited by Mumbles; 8th December 2017 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 8th December 2017, 09:54 PM   #269
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(Null)

Last edited by Beeyon; 8th December 2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: I think i was wrong.
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Old 8th December 2017, 10:31 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The footage is from a hotel corridor. I understand the victim and his colleague were in town for a business conference. They were in the business of pest control. They took a couple of clients back to their hotel room for supper and had pizza and a drink. Maybe enough to be slightly tipsy, and why not, they weren't driving.

Part of their stock-in-trade was pellet guns, I imagine for shooting rodents. They had a couple with them and took them out to show them to the clients. Someone else saw this through the window and thought that guns were being brandished. They called the cops.

The victim was essentially being given a series of ever-more-impossible commands that amounted to a sadistic game of Twister. Cross your ankles behind you, raise your arms straight above your head, crawl towards me. Of course he lowered his arms because you can't crawl in that position - not even if you're sober and the victim probably wasn't. He was pleading, "Please don't shoot me." The cop shot him. As far as I can see the victim was white and respectable-looking, so it wasn't even racism.
You left out the part where he did reach toward his waistband.
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:46 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You left out the part where he did reach toward his waistband.
Because that was the only way he could comply with the latest instructions yelled at him by a man with a gun, who at the kindest interpretation is trigger-happy.

I'd be panicking and not thinking straight if that happened to me.
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:51 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
As I keep saying, skin color does not offer immunity, having some dude screaming and pointing a gun at you is nerve-wracking, and the worst indicator isn't skin color, it's mental illness.

But yeah, that's often what it's like. "Put your hands up. Do it or I'll shoot you!!! Now crawl!" Guess wrong, and you may be dead. Ask "Which one?" and you may be dead. So, now what?

And again, this isn't about cops, it's about bad cops. Some cops in the US are legit heroes. The issue is, what do we do with the guys who scream contradictory commands at people while pointing guns at them?

But it was okay to drive up, jump out of a car, and blast Tamir Rice, right? Seriously, this was a white male. Now, let this be a black or native Amdedrican male, and think of how this would play out then.

(As for the idiot demanding that the dog's owner cut off his head - that, at least, is obvious. I wouldn't even know how to do so, an would have no tool to do it with.)
Yes, and far too little oversight of far too many police forces allows bad cops to remain bad. Some are incompetent and might be appropriately trained, others should never have been cops in the first place and should never be put in positions of trust or power.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th December 2017, 01:41 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You left out the part where he did reach toward his waistband.
Define "crawl," and explain to us how one can crawl without ever moving a hand backwards relative to one's waist.
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Old 9th December 2017, 01:47 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Because that was the only way he could comply with the latest instructions yelled at him by a man with a gun, who at the kindest interpretation is trigger-happy.

I'd be panicking and not thinking straight if that happened to me.
Not only should the psycho piece of **** have been convicted of murder, the other officer should be tried for not shooting the murderous killer standing next to him who is obviously a threat to every citizen in the hotel.
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Old 9th December 2017, 02:22 AM   #275
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The victim panics and is trying his best to cooperate even when he does briefly put his hands behind his back. That cop scum is a murderer and to not convict him empowers more murder by the police.

At the point the cop shoots, Shaver is doing exactly what he was told to do by murdering scum cop and he is crawling towards him.
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Old 9th December 2017, 02:43 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Because that was the only way he could comply with the latest instructions yelled at him by a man with a gun, who at the kindest interpretation is trigger-happy.

I'd be panicking and not thinking straight if that happened to me.
That's because you aren't a US citizen - they are so used to having guns that having one pointed at them couldn't cause any reasonable person to panic or be nervous.

Plus of course the murdered man broke the cardinal rule - he did something, and doing anything including doing nothing can put a cop in fear of his life....
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Old 9th December 2017, 03:06 AM   #277
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The way the cop acted must be in at least part because he was confident he would never be, or at least highly unlikely convicted of murder or other serious charge.

He also exhibited what has been posted about before, that the police are being trained to kill, everything is a threat and give a man a hammer and everything becomes a nail.

What is wrong with the USA that it is ignoring the rise of killer cops?
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Old 9th December 2017, 04:23 AM   #278
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When I was watching the crawling dead video, I was thinking "gosh, I hope he doesn't.... oh ******" The rest of that thought was "... automatically pull his pants up" which is (I think) the exact automatic action he took, without thinking.

5 or so years ago, I had 5 police officers pointing their guns at me because it was reported I "brandished a long gun" while waiting outside my wife's doctors office. They asked to search my van, which I of course allowed. When they got to where the umbrella I "brandished" I automatically, without thought, reached for it. Fortunately, the police just shouted to stop, I did and apologized. I'm lucky the officer from the video wasn't covering me.
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Old 9th December 2017, 04:38 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You left out the part where he did reach toward his waistband.
He was wearing jogging pants with an elasticated waist, they had ridden down due to him crawling towards his executioner. In a last act to save what little dignity his executioner had left him, he attempts to pull up his trousers to save embarrassment and in case the executioner is offended or misinterprets what message his bare arse might be sending.

It didn't matter the **** shot him anyway. The **** had been waiting for a moment like this all his career. The inscription on his gun is proof of this as it was a self fulfilling prediction.

What a truly ********** up society.
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Old 9th December 2017, 04:43 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The way the cop acted must be in at least part because he was confident he would never be, or at least highly unlikely convicted of murder or other serious charge.

He also exhibited what has been posted about before, that the police are being trained to kill, everything is a threat and give a man a hammer and everything becomes a nail.

What is wrong with the USA that it is ignoring the rise of killer cops?
Cops are trained to kill because everyone is potentially a threat. It's the price that the US pays for their gun laws, exactly the same as mass shootings, accidental shootings, and domestic violence shootings.

The fact is that none of this should have had to happen. Cops shouldn't be so scared that they have to treat suspects as armed to the teeth until they know otherwise, but because a number of suspects are armed to the teeth and are willing to use those weapons (over 10,000 a year) then a Cop has to act as if every suspect they encounter could be one of those 10,000 people or risk finding out the hard way. This means that sudden moves can wind up being fatal.

If US Society wants to prevent police shootings, then they need to take gun control seriously, and they need to take getting guns out o the hands of those most likely to shot at cops. Until then it's the price of freedom.
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