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Tags Clinton controversies , hillary clinton

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Old 27th May 2018, 08:51 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Two classic liberal dissents to conservative court majorities' bad decisions and an opinion piece by a right wing writer.

So, we'll ask again.... do you have any evidence in Ginsburg's lifetime of work that she's part of the far left.

Alternately, just concede that you're so far right that you have the Humpty Dumpty Pass and can call anyone you disagree with "Far Left".


See? We've got different upbringings. I actually know people on the far left. You think the guy who ran for Alderman down at Logger Acres is far left because he wants to post a crossing guard at Robert Taft Elementary and your delivery trucks would have to slow down.
Lol

See, a waste of time. Of course 2018 and in liberal world we have to prove liberals are liberals. Being left is so pathetic, not only will leftists not admit to being left, you have to prove they're left by citing their entire body of work.

Lol
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:10 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

See, a waste of time. Of course 2018 and in liberal world we have to prove liberals are liberals. Being left is so pathetic, not only will leftists not admit to being left, you have to prove they're left by citing their entire body of work.

Lol
I like the Lol bit. Laughing at yourself is a good thing. Not even the Right Wing Greek Chorus is stepping in to back you. You're making up definitions because you obviously know nothing about the topic and are just repeating what you wish was the case.

Clinton appointed Ginsburg who's a radical leftie? Is that what Orin Hatch told him? You do realize that Hatch was advising Clinton on who would be acceptable to the western conservative bloc, right?

Ginsburg is admirable. She's her own walking, talking ERA. She got more done to establish an even playing field for women than just about anyone in the latter half of the 20th century in the US. Perhaps you could give me your wife's address and I could send her a collection of the cases she brought through the appellate courts and even up to the supremes. Should make for some interesting turn-of-the-19th-century dinner conversations at Chez Logger.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:11 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

See, a waste of time. Of course 2018 and in liberal world we have to prove liberals are liberals. Being left is so pathetic, not only will leftists not admit to being left, you have to prove they're left by citing their entire body of work.

Lol
Totally silly response and totally inadequate. Back to labels.

You said they were extreme left. The first was a dissent from overturning 80 years of labor law. Hardly an EXTREME left position. Law that had survived Warren, Burger, Rhenquist, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and both Bushs.

Do you really think that returning to yellow dog contracts will help every day Americans? Or further weaken collective bargaining?
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:13 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I like the Lol bit. Laughing at yourself is a good thing. Not even the Right Wing Greek Chorus is stepping in to back you. You're making up definitions because you obviously know nothing about the topic and are just repeating what you wish was the case.

Clinton appointed Ginsburg who's a radical leftie? Is that what Orin Hatch told him? You do realize that Hatch was advising Clinton on who would be acceptable to the western conservative bloc, right?

Ginsburg is admirable. She's her own walking, talking ERA. She got more done to establish an even playing field for women than just about anyone in the latter half of the 20th century in the US. Perhaps you could give me your wife's address and I could send her a collection of the cases she brought through the appellate courts and even up to the supremes. Should make for some interesting turn-of-the-19th-century dinner conversations at Chez Logger.
Actually Im laughing at you needing an explanation of why one of the leading leftists judges is actually a leftist, that is the best case of denial Ive seen all week.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:15 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Totally silly response and totally inadequate. Back to labels.

You said they were extreme left. The first was a dissent from overturning 80 years of labor law. Hardly an EXTREME left position. Law that had survived Warren, Burger, Rhenquist, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and both Bushs.

Do you really think that returning to yellow dog contracts will help every day Americans? Or further weaken collective bargaining?
As I said to your ridiculous answers before, no one on the court is left to you, Its a waste of time.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:21 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Actually Im laughing at you needing an explanation of why one of the leading leftists judges is actually a leftist, that is the best case of denial Ive seen all week.
And if we all clap real hard, boys and girls, Tinkerbell will come back to life. Keep blowing smoke. You knew nothing (zip, nada, rien) about Ginsburg other than what you've picked up from opinion pieces in the smarmy rags you consider news sources.

They are liberals. Get it? Far Left is even beyond Bernie, who's Socialism Lite. You know not of what you speak.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:24 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And if we all clap real hard, boys and girls, Tinkerbell will come back to life. Keep blowing smoke. You knew nothing (zip, nada, rien) about Ginsburg other than what you've picked up from opinion pieces in the smarmy rags you consider news sources.

They are liberals. Get it? Far Left is even beyond Bernie, who's Socialism Lite. You know not of what you speak.
Lol again!

She’s been there since 93, I know everything about her to know she’s very left. I could have woken up yesterday and just read that other liberals think she’s a liberal. Of course here the liberals need it proven that she’s a liberal. Lol that is so ******* hilarious!

Last edited by logger; 27th May 2018 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:26 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
As I said to your ridiculous answers before, no one on the court is “left” to you, It’s a waste of time.
What's a waste is your unwillingness use your head for anything more than a place to put your hat. Is engaging a serious subject in depth beyond your consideration? God forbid we discuss the merits of a particular case.

I always hope that I can get to read what you think beyond simpleton labels. But alas, I am disappointed again.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:30 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What's a waste is your unwillingness use your head for anything more than a place to put your hat. Is engaging a serious subject in depth beyond your consideration? God forbid we discuss the merits of a particular case.

I always hope that I can get to read what you think beyond simpleton labels. But alas, I am disappointed again.
A serious subject? Proving Ginsburg is liberal?

Thanks for proving my point again!
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:40 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A serious subject? Proving Ginsburg is liberal?

Thanks for proving my point again!
AGAIN, you FAILED to make a point and again took the coward's way out.
What MAKES her an EXTREME LIBERAL? Quit DODGING the question. Certainly you can do better than you have.
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Old 27th May 2018, 10:20 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
AGAIN, you FAILED to make a point and again took the coward's way out.
What MAKES her an EXTREME LIBERAL? Quit DODGING the question. Certainly you can do better than you have.
It's basically a "I know <whatever> when I see it, but I can't define it" argument.

Pretty much anything logger disagrees with is "Far left," so he doesn't feel the need to analyze it.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:24 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol again!

Shes been there since 93, I know everything about her to know shes very left. I could have woken up yesterday and just read that other liberals think shes a liberal. Of course here the liberals need it proven that shes a liberal. Lol that is so ******* hilarious!
Ha ha ha. We don't need it proved that she's a liberal. She is a liberal. She stands for liberal causes. Her legal career is that of a liberal. Her majority decisions on the Supremes are those of a liberal. Her dissents are those of a liberal.

I'm not a liberal. I am far left. She is not far left. Hell, she voted with Scalia and Bork in cases on the DC court. Some "far left" judge ya got there. Have you checked to see if your political compass is sitting next to an electric generator or refrigerator magnet? You don't actually know the difference between Far Left, Left, Liberal, Moderate, Conservative and Reactionary. You start out at Reactionary so everything to the left of you, you call left.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:53 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do you really need it explained WHY they’re extreme left?

Do you not believe they are extreme left?
Not responsive and I'd like to see you respond. I don't like the "your side" and "my side" bit as I think that sort of division is not good for the country. I'd rather see the "sides" make an effort to understand each other. There may even be common ground there. (OK, maybe that last is too much to ask for ... but I am a pretty big fan of bipartisanship which is vanishingly rare these days).

Last edited by Minoosh; 28th May 2018 at 12:54 AM. Reason: clarifying
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:36 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A serious subject? Proving Ginsburg is liberal?

Thanks for proving my point again!
Actually you are the one proving my point. You claim that you aren't the topic of discussion, but by inserting your opinion that "Liberal" = "Extreme Left" you have make your opinion very much a target of the discussion.

And quite simply you are wrong.

The Extreme Left is made up of Hardcore Socialists who believe that the means of production should belong to the people, and that wages should be distributed equally to all that work, regardless of the actual job they do.

If they are also hardcore Authoritarians then they are Communists.

Or, if they are also hardcore Anti-Authoritarians then they are Anarchists.

The fact that you fail to understand this and repeatedly invalidly equate Liberal and Extreme or Far Left shows exactly how out of tough you really are, and proves my point exactly, that you see anyone to the left of Mussolini to be a part of the Extreme Left.

Now you are welcome to try and prove that any of the liberal Judges on the Supreme Court are Hardcore Socialists, Communists, or Anarchists, but I doubt that you'll even try, it would take too much effort in rearranging your world view to understand the real political spectrum instead of the one inside your conservative fantasy world.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 28th May 2018 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 28th May 2018, 08:07 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Not responsive and I'd like to see you respond. I don't like the "your side" and "my side" bit as I think that sort of division is not good for the country. I'd rather see the "sides" make an effort to understand each other. There may even be common ground there. (OK, maybe that last is too much to ask for ... but I am a pretty big fan of bipartisanship which is vanishingly rare these days).
Exactly. He has turned this into tribalism with nothing more than if you're a Democrat or a Republican.

The idea that RBG is an EXTREME LIBERAL is absurd and risible.

The case that he trotted out was RBG's defense with what had been the status quo in labor law for 80 years! How the hell does that make her EXTREME? It was a 5 to 4 decision! Frankly, the new majority was carving out new law, not the other way around. But RBG is an EXTREME LEFTY in his mind? Seriously?

I simply asked Logger for the criteria he uses to brandish people with these labels and he wouldn't or couldn't say. I believe couldn't. I seriously doubt he has a clue about the justices and their opinions. That he will not or cannot actually discuss his criteria is evidence that he doesn't tthink about any of these issues. He just moves to one side and starts yelling liberal at the other side.

This demonstrates very clearly how many people and even the press approach politics. They are comfortable with labels and uncomfortable with actually applying critical thinking skills. God forbid they look at the issue from the other side.

I despise the labels and the party system. Jefferson wanted to outlaw political parties for this very reason.

Why should we have to be two opinion blocks instead of a sea of ever-changing alliances? Why can't two people be fighting each other on say abortion and work together to fight pollution or promote public education?

I hold some opinions that Logger would oppose but some I'm sure he would agree with. Common ground can be found. Not on everything, but it's this us vs them attitude that results in nothing getting done.
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Old 28th May 2018, 10:29 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Ha ha ha. We don't need it proved that she's a liberal. She is a liberal. She stands for liberal causes. Her legal career is that of a liberal. Her majority decisions on the Supremes are those of a liberal. Her dissents are those of a liberal.

I'm not a liberal. I am far left. She is not far left. Hell, she voted with Scalia and Bork in cases on the DC court. Some "far left" judge ya got there. Have you checked to see if your political compass is sitting next to an electric generator or refrigerator magnet? You don't actually know the difference between Far Left, Left, Liberal, Moderate, Conservative and Reactionary. You start out at Reactionary so everything to the left of you, you call left.
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Actually you are the one proving my point. You claim that you aren't the topic of discussion, but by inserting your opinion that "Liberal" = "Extreme Left" you have make your opinion very much a target of the discussion.

And quite simply you are wrong.

The Extreme Left is made up of Hardcore Socialists who believe that the means of production should belong to the people, and that wages should be distributed equally to all that work, regardless of the actual job they do.

If they are also hardcore Authoritarians then they are Communists.

Or, if they are also hardcore Anti-Authoritarians then they are Anarchists.

The fact that you fail to understand this and repeatedly invalidly equate Liberal and Extreme or Far Left shows exactly how out of tough you really are, and proves my point exactly, that you see anyone to the left of Mussolini to be a part of the Extreme Left.

Now you are welcome to try and prove that any of the liberal Judges on the Supreme Court are Hardcore Socialists, Communists, or Anarchists, but I doubt that you'll even try, it would take too much effort in rearranging your world view to understand the real political spectrum instead of the one inside your conservative fantasy world.
FMW says hes far left are you saying hes a socialist or communist? Thanks for proving the point again that getting into these labels and defining them is a waste of time. Besides, when someone is far left to me, that isnt socialist or communist. Those ideologies already have names.

The problem here is so many on this forum are far/extreme left and they damn sure dont like to admit it.
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Old 28th May 2018, 10:37 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Exactly. He has turned this into tribalism with nothing more than if you're a Democrat or a Republican.
I rather enjoy tribalism and I don’t see very many signs that many on the left are opposed to it. Seems to me they like it more then I do.


Quote:
Why should we have to be two opinion blocks instead of a sea of ever-changing alliances? Why can't two people be fighting each other on say abortion and work together to fight pollution or promote public education?
Because I’m not interested in compromise, I want the left defeated, destroyed, to never hold power again. The left isn’t interested in compromise either, they just understand how to get what they want without compromise better than my side.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:08 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
FMW says hes far left are you saying hes a socialist or communist? Thanks for proving the point again that getting into these labels and defining them is a waste of time.
Stop doing it then. Discuss the actual issue, rather than just calling people names.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:09 PM   #219
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BTW, logger, have you ever demonstrated why RBG is "far left?"

ETA: Citing other people who agree with you isn't evidence of anything other than your blind allegiance to ideology.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:15 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I rather enjoy tribalism and I dont see very many signs that many on the left are opposed to it. Seems to me they like it more then I do.
Total BS. Most people here disagree ALL THE TIME. You feel the need to push people into a corner, and label them.

Rational discussion should begin with examining your own mind, rather than attacking anyone who dares to challenge your personal views.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:34 PM   #221
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His personal views are whatever he thinks will get a rise out of people. It really is that simple.
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:29 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
His personal views are whatever he thinks will get a rise out of people. It really is that simple.
Probably.
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Old 28th May 2018, 03:17 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
FMW says he’s far left are you saying he’s a socialist or communist?
I don't know FMW well enough to make such a call. From his postings I'd say that he might be Far Left to an American, but not to a European, but that is because the US has an unnatural right shift in its political spectrum.

Quote:
Thanks for proving the point again that getting into these labels and defining them is a waste of time.
One of the big problems that that the basic "left-right" is a summary of a far more complex situation. In reality, political stance is at least in the form of a Tesseract, with 4 axis, perhaps more. Fiscal, Social, Authority, and Market.

A person can be Fiscally Conservative, while being Socially Progressive, and a centrist when it comes to Regulating Markets and Governmental Authority.

That doesn't conform at all to the simplistic "left-right" spectrum.

The "labels" are best attempts to define the extremes in the corners of the Tesseract.

Quote:
Besides, when someone is far left to me, that isn’t socialist or communist. Those ideologies already have names.
Yeah, they are the names of the groups that hold the positions on the extremes of the "left."

For instance Communist tends to be Fiscally and Socially Conservative, but also Regulatory to the point of owning businesses and production on behalf of the people, and fully Authoritarian. It takes up the corner where those things meet, but when simplified to a one dimensional "Left-Right" spectrum, it becomes as far left as it is possible to go. That doesn't mean that it shares full agreement with all the others similarly simplified to that position, just as not all on the extreme right are hard-core libertarians or fascists, but when the political spectrum is simplified to one dimension, they too end up in the same place.

It's why it's stupid to talk about Left-Right anyways. It becomes even more stupid when people define what is far and extreme based not on the distance from the true centre, but rather on distance from their own political belief.


Quote:
The problem here is so many on this forum are far/extreme left and they damn sure don’t like to admit it.
No, a lot of people are far to the left of you. They are not far left of the centre.

I bet you consider me to be far left, but in reality I'm centre left. On the Authoritarian axis I'm pretty much smack bang in the middle, while I'm more progressive than conservative socially. You are seeing people through your own glasses and where you sit on the spectrum, not where they really sit.

Hence again my comment that you view anyone to the left of Mussolini to be extreme left. I'm not trying to be rude to you in saying this, I'm trying to point out that you are artificially dragging the centre over towards yourself making everyone else appear to you as being further left than they truly are.
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Old 28th May 2018, 07:28 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
FMW says hes far left are you saying hes a socialist or communist? Thanks for proving the point again that getting into these labels and defining them is a waste of time. Besides, when someone is far left to me, that isnt socialist or communist. Those ideologies already have names.

The problem here is so many on this forum are far/extreme left and they damn sure dont like to admit it.
I'm far left and proud of it. But I'm legitimately far left, not a classic liberal being labeled by the paleo-conservative right as one. RBG is a liberal. Barack Obama is a moderate. Hillary Clinton is moderate-to-conservative, as is Bill Clinton. (I'm trying to think of any other Not Far Left that you've referred to as far left.)
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Old 28th May 2018, 07:36 PM   #225
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What is this goof hiding?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018...al-day-parade/
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Old 28th May 2018, 07:44 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Who the **** cares whether she wears a coat?

ETA: And suppose she really does have a back brace or something... so the **** what? Why does that matter to you?

Last edited by phiwum; 28th May 2018 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 28th May 2018, 07:48 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Uranium for Russia.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 29th May 2018, 05:03 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Who the **** cares whether she wears a coat?

ETA: And suppose she really does have a back brace or something... so the **** what? Why does that matter to you?
Because normal people are okay with it. Again, why hide it?
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:58 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because normal people are okay with it. Again, why hide it?
Who the **** cares?

This is a politics thread, not a gossip about ex-pols thread.
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:01 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Who the **** cares?

This is a politics thread, not a gossip about ex-pols thread.
Try and think about this situation. She is obviously trying to hide it, shes very bad at doing these things, so its quite funny to watch her doing it. Im just highlighting how much of a moron she is.
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:03 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Try and think about this situation.<snip>
This is irony, yes ?

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Old 29th May 2018, 08:27 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Who the **** cares whether she wears a coat?
Certainly not anyone reasonable.

Some people naturally have a preference for warmer temperatures, others prefer colder. Her wearing a coat may just be as simple as not wanting to be cold. We're talking temperatures around room temperature, so its not like she was wearing it in the middle of summer.

It should also be noted that she is not the only one wearing a jacket... many other people were. Many of the men had suit jackets, and one of the pictures in the refereed to article had Hillary talking to a woman in a lime green jacket with what looked like a hoodie underneath.
Quote:
ETA: And suppose she really does have a back brace or something... so the **** what? Why does that matter to you?
My thought is that if she were wearing anything it would likely be a bullet proof vest. Trump has been rather vocal as of late with talk of the "deep state" and calls for investigations into Hillary. And lets face it, Trump supporters tend to be rather feeble minded. I certainly wouldn't blame her if she decided to wear a vest as protection lest one of Trump's second amendment fans decides to take the law into their own hands.

This reminds me of the Bush-Kerry debate during the 2004 election, when Bush was accused of having some sort of Transceiver to help him during the debate simply because it seemed like his jacket didn't fit right or had a buldge in it. It was a silly thing to be concerned about then, and its a silly thing to be concerned about now.
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:45 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because normal people are okay with it. Again, why hide it?
Did it ever occur to you that she was wearing a jacket becase she was cold?

Here are various pictures from the article YOU linked to. I have circled several people who were wearing jackets of various sizes/weights... some light "spring jackets", others a bit heavier. If it were really so hot, why were those people wearing jackets too? Does Hillary have some sort of mind-control power over them? Does the "deep state" extend to control over people's decision to wear a coat? Or is it possible that, even though some people were comfortable in shorts, the temperature was still in the mid-range and that some people were still able to wear jackets.
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File Type: jpg hjacket.jpg (47.7 KB, 16 views)
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:52 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Keeping it classy with your sources I see....

For those, like me, who aren't that familiar with US political punditry, this is the start of the Wiki article on the source:

Quote:
The Gateway Pundit (TGP) is a far-right, pro-Trump website. It was founded after the United States presidential election in 2004, according to its founder Jim Hoft, to "speak the truth" and to "expose the wickedness of the left".
So without wanting to poison the well, that is the prism through which its contributors see the world.
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:07 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Keeping it classy with your sources I see....

For those, like me, who aren't that familiar with US political punditry, this is the start of the Wiki article on the source:



So without wanting to poison the well, that is the prism through which its contributors see the world.
are you implying that the photographs that were sourced from Hillary's own twitter feed were faked somehow?
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:19 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
are you implying that the photographs that were sourced from Hillary's own twitter feed were faked somehow?
No, but part of the narrative provided in the article (that it was somehow "too warm" to be wearing a jacket) was false/misleading (as I pointed out, many others who participated in the march were likewise wearing jackets).

Likewise, the idea that her coat was worn with the purpose of "hiding something" is giving an imaginary context that doesn't hold up to even casual analysis.
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:30 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
are you implying that the photographs that were sourced from Hillary's own twitter feed were faked somehow?
But but but the source!
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:31 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
No, but part of the narrative provided in the article (that it was somehow "too warm" to be wearing a jacket) was false/misleading (as I pointed out, many others who participated in the march were likewise wearing jackets).

Likewise, the idea that her coat was worn with the purpose of "hiding something" is giving an imaginary context that doesn't hold up to even casual analysis.
well certainly one can look at the pictures themselves and judge for themselves.

For example, you have posted pictures and inexplicably circled people wearing what appear to be very light/open jackets (and I would wager that some of the men wearing jackets are secret service), while Hillary is clearly wearing a heavy woolen style coat buttoned to the top with a scarf.
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:38 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
well certainly one can look at the pictures themselves and judge for themselves.

For example, you have posted pictures and inexplicably circled people wearing what appear to be very light/open jackets (and I would wager that some of the men wearing jackets are secret service), while Hillary is clearly wearing a heavy woolen style coat buttoned to the top with a scarf.
Looks more like a light(in both colour and weight)-blue mac to me rather than a heavy woollen overcoat.

edited to add...

and the "thing protruding out the back" is likely the back flap of the garment itself.

If I was to criticise Hillary, it would be for wearing a a coat that is either a size too small or possibly a garment shape which is better suited towards the tall and lissom.


edited again to add.....

and the scarf looks more like a silk accessory to provide a bit of star spangled banner to the ensemble as opposed to a woollen thing to keep her neck warm. My late lamented mother took to wearing a light scarf most of the time after surgery on her thyroid left her with a scar on her neck about which she was self-conscious.

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Old 29th May 2018, 09:39 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
But but but the source!
Well a different source may have said "woman wears light mac on showery late-spring day" and made rather less of it....
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