2018 mid-term election - Page 2

Roger Ramjets · 9th August 2018, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

(D) Obama fought for TPP and (R) Trump killed it,

Not exactly true. Yes, Trump opposed it, but he was not the architect of its demise.

Jul 26, 2016 How the TPP became the most divisive policy in the Democratic Party

Quote:

Democrats at the party's national convention in Philadelphia this week are riled up about something called the TPP, short for the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The bureaucratic title aside, this agreement would have major consequences in some developing countries and has become a potent rallying cry in the U.S. presidential campaign.

In Philadelphia on Monday, delegates chanted "No TPP!" and brandished signs declaring their opposition. They were frustrated that the party's official platform did not explicitly reject the Trans-Pacific Partnership -- a reflection of the fierce disagreement among Democrats about the deal's merits.

Hillary Clinton opposes the accord, even though she helped negotiate it as President Obama's secretary of state. Her former boss still supports it, though, as does her running mate, Sen. Timothy M. Kaine (D-Va.)

carlitos · 9th August 2018, 08:27 PM

Fair points about the Ds opposing TPP to try and get elected. How soon I forgot, only 400+ days or so...

Drewbot · 10th August 2018, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

GIven ABP's posting history, it's a case of extreme Anti Establishment Attitude.
He sees Trump as destroying the Establishment (let's put off if that is true or not) and that is all he wants to see.
Call if the Joker in "The Dark Knight" syndrome...he just wants to see the Forest Burn.

This looks like the Mind-Reading Tell for Cognitive dissonance.

or can you truly read minds?

WilliamSeger · 10th August 2018, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

This looks like the Mind-Reading Tell for Cognitive dissonance.

or can you truly read minds?

You don't know what "cognitive dissonance" means, do you?

Foolmewunz · 14th August 2018, 09:01 AM

Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune

kellyb · 14th August 2018, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune

Marsha's the rep for the burbs a few miles east of me. She's kind of TN's own Sarah Palin. He's what my congressional rep said about her last week.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...dge/953300002/

Quote:

Rep. Steve Cohen under fire for saying he wished Marsha Blackburn would jump off a bridge

LOL

Btw, Corker was the one who said:

Quote:

We're in a strange place. I mean, it's almost, you know, it's becoming a cultish thing, isn't it? And it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a President that happens to be of purportedly of the same party.

Probably the most insightful thing I've ever heard the dude say, because yes. Trump supporters are indeed essentially a cult at this point.

Foolmewunz · 15th August 2018, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by kellyb

Marsha's the rep for the burbs a few miles east of me. She's kind of TN's own Sarah Palin. He's what my congressional rep said about her last week.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...dge/953300002/

LOL

Btw, Corker was the one who said:

Probably the most insightful thing I've ever heard the dude say, because yes. Trump supporters are indeed essentially a cult at this point.

Are there any reliable in-state polls at present? All I've seen is a Gravis poll (which is neither in-state nor reliable) which shows her ahead by a few points.

kellyb · 15th August 2018, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Are there any reliable in-state polls at present? All I've seen is a Gravis poll (which is neither in-state nor reliable) which shows her ahead by a few points.

There's this:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ace/781031002/

Quote:

The poll found 44 percent of respondents said they favored Bredesen while 41 percent preferred Blackburn. Both candidates face nominal opposition in their respective primary races on Aug. 2. Early voting runs through July 28.

Fifteen percent of respondents were undecided on the race.

The poll, conducted by Public Policy Polling, also found respondents had a more negative view of Blackburn than positive.

Thirty-three percent of those surveyed had a positive view of Blackburn while 46 percent had a negative view.

AlaskaBushPilot · 15th August 2018, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

GIven ABP's posting history, it's a case of extreme Anti Establishment Attitude.
He sees Trump as destroying the Establishment (let's put off if that is true or not) and that is all he wants to see.
Call if the Joker in "The Dark Knight" syndrome...he just wants to see the Forest Burn.

This is exactly why the democrats have lost all those governorships, all those federal senate and house seats, and all the state senate and house seats.

It's relentless labeling and demonizing, instead of addressing arguments and coming up with programs the people will support.

Pointing out how the shrill "racist, sexist, homophobe, etc." screeching has failed, and urging the dems to come up with a program most importantly for labor...

The response is that I am the Joker in the Dark Knight who wants to burn everything down. More name-calling. Labelling.

How does that get dems re-approaching Labor? It doesn't and that's why the dems will lose again. The leadership in the last month seems to have realized this and changed their midterm election slogan to "for the people".

But it's too late. Because it has been two years of indoctrinating the remaining rank and file with "racist, sexist, homophobe, Joker, Arsonist, extremist, etc." They're "for the people", while calling the people despicable.

Again, the approval ratings for Trump are not only fact, but understated for the same reason Trump support was understated in the presidential election. They are still sampling the same way. He is higher than Obama was at this juncture.

You just are not getting the point that calling nearly half the country racist, sexist, homophobe, fascist, the Joker, etc. etc. is alientating them. It is abuse, not discussion.

Reporting that to you, that hey look: your strategy is backfiring - the response is more name-calling. Can't seem to help yourself.

Even if you are right, an extremist can have great points. Hitler had an extremely successful military strategy of Blitzkrieg. You don't argue against blitzkrieg, by saying it is an extremist's opinion.

That is an ad hominem. Of all places, this board should know.

What you also do in alienating people is run them off discussion boards. You aren't discussing, just hurling abuse. So the board becomes a delusional echo chamber.

It isn't an insane psycho-killer delusion like you try to label me with. It is the rather simple mistake thinking you are in this huge majority and Trump has the KKK membership plus nazis. And the Joker Extremist Arsonist.

I didn't vote for him, I made my anti-torture and anti-Imperialist views clear long before the general election on this board. I spoke out against the Goldman-Sachs appointments. Against the missile attacks in Syria, I oppose the Russian sanctions, the list is long.

I have used Jimmy Kimmel, Noam Chomsky, even Michael Moore's positions on this board, I agree with a lot of them. I disagree with others. But it shows how the dems are not listening to their own people on important matters. They have alienated their own base, hence the record-low representation of dems in houses, senates, governorships, and the presidency.

You learned absolutely nothing from the election of Trump. Doubled down on the same failed strategy, and it is amazing to me. Because it isn't very hard to sit down with Americal Labor, you literally do that. You meet with every labor organization systematically, sincerely, and instead of telling them what luddites they are, what despicable people they are, you just ask a simple question: what do you want. Tell us what to do. Act like you work for them.

and I don't mean to "put on an act". I mean in the sense that actions FOR someone speak a lot more effectively than calling them names.

LSSBB · 15th August 2018, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

This is exactly why the democrats have lost all those governorships, all those federal senate and house seats, and all the state senate and house seats.

Not to defend dubalb here, because I already posted my disagreement, however:

What makes you think he is, or has traditionally been, a Democrat?

AlaskaBushPilot · 15th August 2018, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

In the mid-terms, it's a defensible strategy,

Look how someone can be reasonable and make an argument instead of calling someone names.

Thank you.

Ordinarily, it would be. In the past, the Dems had a somewhat credible position of representing labor and republicans representing capital.

But the democrats turned on labor and gave the field to Trump. So being anti-Trump does not fit the historic labor-vs-capital framework. The dems just hurled insults at labor after the last election, right up until now.

So now at the last minute, the dems have turned their midterm election slogan into the more traditional democrats = "for the people". ie, labor. It is an attempt to put Trump in the traditional republicans = capital framework.

The problem is it's too little, too late. The party is a giant ship whose rudder needed to be turned after the 2016 election, and they would then have had two years of credibility building.

But instead it was two years of anti-Trump hysteria, where they were against Trump not because there was a better plan the democrats had for labor, but because Trump was the KKK and Hitler. And you, labor, who supported him are stupid white trailer trash sexist putin dupes.

This hysteria has culminated in the coordinated censorship we are seeing now. That speaks a lot louder than a campaign slogan, and it is the Dems distinguishing themselves with not only calls for censorship but much worse.

Again, Jimmy Dore did a show on how stupid this censorship is coming up to the midterms. It isn't just Alex Jones, but the left wing of the dems that are frightened with the militancy over the PC party line.

The Bernie supporters are still watching the DNC argue in court they can choose whoever they want, give the money to whoevery they want, and the promise their votes would count... is a lie they are entitled to.

So this "for the people" midterm sloganeering rings awfully hollow. Orwellian. Diversity = Conformity.

AlaskaBushPilot · 15th August 2018, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by LSSBB

Not to defend dubalb here, because I already posted my disagreement, however:

What makes you think he is, or has traditionally been, a Democrat?

I didn't say he was.

I pointed to his name-calling. It isn't an argument. And the democrats have used that strategy ad nauseum. Likewise, not an argument.

And the result of that strategy is catastrophic losses in federal house seats, federal senate seats, the presidency, governorships, state house seats, state senatorships, now appointmenst of judges for years to come...

How much evidence do you need that this strategy is failing? The poster is using this failed strategy. Labeling me instead of using logic and reason.

So I appeal to reason and evidence: stop calling me names. It is not reason. The evidence is it fails in historically singular fashion.

dudalb · 15th August 2018, 04:29 PM

Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap.
He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan.

dudalb · 15th August 2018, 04:30 PM

And if name calling means calling out Trump for the total and dangerous POS he is I plead guilty.

Fudbucker · 15th August 2018, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

Look how someone can be reasonable and make an argument instead of calling someone names.

Thank you.

Ordinarily, it would be. In the past, the Dems had a somewhat credible position of representing labor and republicans representing capital.

But the democrats turned on labor and gave the field to Trump. So being anti-Trump does not fit the historic labor-vs-capital framework. The dems just hurled insults at labor after the last election, right up until now.

So now at the last minute, the dems have turned their midterm election slogan into the more traditional democrats = "for the people". ie, labor. It is an attempt to put Trump in the traditional republicans = capital framework.

The problem is it's too little, too late. The party is a giant ship whose rudder needed to be turned after the 2016 election, and they would then have had two years of credibility building.

But instead it was two years of anti-Trump hysteria, where they were against Trump not because there was a better plan the democrats had for labor, but because Trump was the KKK and Hitler. And you, labor, who supported him are stupid white trailer trash sexist putin dupes.

This hysteria has culminated in the coordinated censorship we are seeing now. That speaks a lot louder than a campaign slogan, and it is the Dems distinguishing themselves with not only calls for censorship but much worse.

Again, Jimmy Dore did a show on how stupid this censorship is coming up to the midterms. It isn't just Alex Jones, but the left wing of the dems that are frightened with the militancy over the PC party line.

The Bernie supporters are still watching the DNC argue in court they can choose whoever they want, give the money to whoevery they want, and the promise their votes would count... is a lie they are entitled to.

So this "for the people" midterm sloganeering rings awfully hollow. Orwellian. Diversity = Conformity.

Democrats would not have put anti-union judges on the Supreme Court.

AlaskaBushPilot · 15th August 2018, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap.
He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan.

And right back to labeling. It's amazing to watch!

I am the one pointing out Jimmy Dore is a left wing democrat with a large following, ie Bernie supporters.

I point out that all of this ad hominem abuse is neither logic/reason nor a successful election strategy.

You respond with irrational name-calling. Bernie fan = Trump fan. You cannot address his points, so you label him the worst thing you can think of.

AlaskaBushPilot · 15th August 2018, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And if name calling means calling out Trump for the total and dangerous POS he is I plead guilty.

No, it doesn't mean that and it is crystal clear from my posts.

This isn't an argument. It is a straw man and empty virtue-signalling.

Your answer to why labor was lost, why Bernie supporters were lost, etc. is label, label, label.

And we really do get it. You aren't calling Trump a dangerous POS, but more than half the country.

Because it isn't just the Trump supporters. It's the left wing of the democratic party too. If you aren't conforming, you're [label]

I am not calling you names. I have made a lot of points, like losing labor. Losing the left wing of the party. The DNC lawsuit where it argues the party elites can name the nominee regardless of the promises in their charter and the votes of the rank and file.

I keep making points like this, and it's label, label, label.

Foolmewunz · 15th August 2018, 07:28 PM

Hey, ya know what? There were some interesting primary results on Tuesday. Does anyone have any comments on them, or is this going to devolve into another thread of pissing on each others' socks?

Ellison, accused perpetrator of domestic violence won his primary in MN. This could still be quite the sideshow. On the more interesting front, the nomination for his old seat (and a near shoo-in for the win in November) is gonna have Steve King and Louie Gohmertz flipping out. A) It's a "she". B) She is a muslim, funky garb and everything. C) She is a Somalian refugee. The "she" in the previous sentences is Ilhan Omar. And not that it matters but I find her gorgeous.

Then there's always Christine Haliquist, who got the nomination for the governorship of Vermont. And not that it matters, but I don't find her gorgeous. Do they have, like Regional New England Governors Conferences. I'd love to see that piece of crap from Maine have to deal with a transgender governor from Vermont.

Drewbot · 16th August 2018, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

No, it doesn't mean that and it is crystal clear from my posts.

This isn't an argument. It is a straw man and empty virtue-signalling.

Your answer to why labor was lost, why Bernie supporters were lost, etc. is label, label, label.

And we really do get it. You aren't calling Trump a dangerous POS, but more than half the country.

Because it isn't just the Trump supporters. It's the left wing of the democratic party too. If you aren't conforming, you're [label]

I am not calling you names. I have made a lot of points, like losing labor. Losing the left wing of the party. The DNC lawsuit where it argues the party elites can name the nominee regardless of the promises in their charter and the votes of the rank and file.

I keep making points like this, and it's label, label, label.

The racist sexist homophobe Union & Manufacturing workers in Michigan, who voted for Trump instead of Hillary, would have probably voted in Bernie. Since both Trump and Bernie are closer on trade and labor than Hillary.

Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace.

MattusMaximus · 16th August 2018, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune

Yeah, I was wondering when this was going to happen.
I further expect there to be a more vigorous revolt within the GOP ranks against Trump if they lose the House in November. Trump might even draw a primary challenger for 2020 (if so, my money's on either Kasich or Romney).

dudalb · 16th August 2018, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Yeah, I was wondering when this was going to happen.
I further expect there to be a more vigorous revolt within the GOP ranks against Trump if they lose the House in November. Trump might even draw a primary challenger for 2020 (if so, my money's on either Kasich or Romney).

I think Kasich is going to run,only question will he do so as a Repunlican or go the third Party Route.

Going to the left or right to win the primary, then sneaking back into the center for the general election is an old,old,trick with both parties. Problem is in trying to out Trump Trump,many Republicans have gone too far out to jump back to the center,and the Dems have all the extreme statements they made to win the GOP nod on tape and video and ready to go....

dudalb · 16th August 2018, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

The racist sexist homophobe Union & Manufacturing workers in Michigan, who voted for Trump instead of Hillary, would have probably voted in Bernie. Since both Trump and Bernie are closer on trade and labor than Hillary.

Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace.

This is funny, given that the Trump administration is the most anti Union we have seen in a long time.
And just wait until Trump's Tariff policies lead to disaster, as they will.

kellyb · 16th August 2018, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace.

What the heck is a "globalist"?

In context, it sounds like you're using it as a substitute for "pro-market" or "free trade" proponent.

Venom · 16th August 2018, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by kellyb

What the heck is a "globalist"?

I once opened a thread to ask just that

Seems to be a front term for "international Jew" [or Zionist].

Norman Alexander · 16th August 2018, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

And right back to labeling. It's amazing to watch!

I am the one pointing out Jimmy Dore is a left wing democrat with a large following, ie Bernie supporters.

I point out that all of this ad hominem abuse is neither logic/reason nor a successful election strategy.

You respond with irrational name-calling. Bernie fan = Trump fan. You cannot address his points, so you label him the worst thing you can think of.

Just FYI: Bernie is not a lefty. He is very much a centrist shading to the right compared to everywhere but the USA. Because the US political scene has been so skewed to the right that some of them are so hard up against the wall they can't raise their right arms. So everybody, everybody!, else is "on the left".

Venom · 16th August 2018, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Just FYI: Bernie is not a lefty. He is very much a centrist shading to the right compared to everywhere but the USA. Because the US political scene has been so skewed to the right that some of them are so hard up against the wall they can't raise their right arms. So everybody, everybody!, else is "on the left".

Disagree. Bernie Sanders is definitely to the left of the vast majority of current US politicians, and would be at almost any point in U.S. history. His ideas fall squarely within the realm of an FDR or JFK, LBJ. Though people who think he is too radical might believe so because, as you mentioned, everything's pulled to the right nowadays.

And btw **** Jimmy Dore. Tired of his purity tests

kellyb · 16th August 2018, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

Disagree. Bernie Sanders is definitely to the left of the vast majority of current US politicians, and would be at almost any point in U.S. history. His ideas fall squarely within the realm of an FDR or JFK, LBJ. Though people who think he is too radical might believe so because, as you mentioned, everything's pulled to the right nowadays.

He might be to the left of the politicians, but when you poll regular people issue by issue, most of his ideas (including Medicare for All) have majority support.

kellyb · 16th August 2018, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap.
He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan.

No, Jimmy Dore is not a Trump fan.

Captain_Swoop · 18th August 2018, 05:22 AM

Officials Defend Plan To Close Almost All Polling Places In Majority Black Georgia County

Quote:

Election officials in a rural southwest Georgia county are defending a plan to suddenly close seven of the county’s nine polling places against allegations of racial discrimination, saying the ones it wants to close are not sufficiently accessible to people with disabilities.

Quote:

Randolph County, the site of the proposed changes, is more than 60 percent black, with a little over 30 percent of residents in poverty ― more than double the national level.. Those voters were less likely to own a car and would be required to walk over three hours to one of the two remaining polling locations because there is no public transportation to get them there. The ACLU also noted the voter makeup of one of the polling places officials wanted to close was 96.7 percent black.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0a5b1febb04fc

Foolmewunz · 18th August 2018, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Officials Defend Plan To Close Almost All Polling Places In Majority Black Georgia County

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0a5b1febb04fc

I'm pretty certain that you can't clean up your accessibility stats by simply closing the places that are not in compliance. I saw a law suit in the making.

Remember, America.... this is the Congress that voted that we had to defang the Voters Rights precautions 'cuz the states are swell folks and they wouldn't do anything to harm their coloreds.

Segnosaur · 20th August 2018, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by kellyb

re: Bernie Sanders...
He might be to the left of the politicians, but when you poll regular people issue by issue, most of his ideas (including Medicare for All) have majority support.

Getting a bit off topic here... but:

I'd be very cautious when you look at polls that look at how people feel on an issue by issue basis, since such polling questions don't give a complete view of people's attitudes, and could lead to contradictions. (Plus, polling questions often don't go into enough details for people to make an informed decision.)

For example, if you ask people "Do you want Medicare for all", you may get a lot of people saying "yes". But did the question go into details about a funding model? What it would cover? And if you ask them "Do you want medicare for all if it means raising taxes to cover it" I'm sure a lot of people would change their minds.

JoeMorgue · 20th August 2018, 08:35 AM

1. People lie to pollsters.
2. Polls are inherently biased toward people who care a lot about the issue and/or have extreme opinions.
3. Entire libraries have been written about how you can word polls to get the answer you want and manipulate poll numbers to say whatever you want.
4. Polls don't take into account "One Issue Voters."

kellyb · 20th August 2018, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Getting a bit off topic here... but:

I'd be very cautious when you look at polls that look at how people feel on an issue by issue basis, since such polling questions don't give a complete view of people's attitudes, and could lead to contradictions. (Plus, polling questions often don't go into enough details for people to make an informed decision.)

For example, if you ask people "Do you want Medicare for all", you may get a lot of people saying "yes". But did the question go into details about a funding model? What it would cover? And if you ask them "Do you want medicare for all if it means raising taxes to cover it" I'm sure a lot of people would change their minds.

The "framing" of how the questions are asked is definitely a huge factor. You can get almost opposite results by asking the same question in a very different way.

There's this:
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...yer-healthcare

Quote:

This month’s Kaiser Health Tracking Poll finds six in ten (59 percent) favor a national health plan, or Medicare-for-all, in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan – including a majority of both Democrats and independents and about one-third of Republicans. Support for such a proposal increases among the overall public (75 percent) and among partisans (87 percent of Democrats, 74 percent of independents, and 64 percent of Republicans) when framed as an option for anyone who wants it, but people who currently have other forms of coverage can keep the coverage they already have. It is unclear how support would fare if these proposals became part of the larger public debate as previous KFF polling has found the public’s attitudes can be quite malleable.

And on inequality, there's this:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...a-chart-graph/

Quote:

Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth, 92% picked one that was even more equitable.

kellyb · 20th August 2018, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

1. People lie to pollsters.
2. Polls are inherently biased toward people who care a lot about the issue and/or have extreme opinions.
3. Entire libraries have been written about how you can word polls to get the answer you want and manipulate poll numbers to say whatever you want.
4. Polls don't take into account "One Issue Voters."

1) data is often flawed so let's just totally ignore all data
2) nobody knows anything
3) I'm making really useful contributions to this conversation

Delphic Oracle · 20th August 2018, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by kellyb

1) data is often flawed so let's just totally ignore all data
2) nobody knows anything
3) I'm making really useful contributions to this conversation

4) These polls don't align with my own anecdotal life sampling and subsequent beliefs about what consensus (or resistance) identity I can wrap myself up in.

The_Animus · 20th August 2018, 11:27 AM

Labor who voted for Trump thinking he was on their side are fools. Anyone who did any research would have known better but they wanted to believe so they blindly followed the vague promises of the magic man.

Foolmewunz · 23rd August 2018, 04:56 PM

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...nt_137874.html

Arizona may be working on an updated of the modern coinage, "primaried". The GOP primary is still to come and with the sky falling in on the Orange Turdblossom, they're all clamoring to get the royal ascent to push them over the top against each other. They then have 60 days to convince an increasingly "less conservative" electorate that they really didn't mean it when they crawled over broken glass to say, "I want to testify! I have come to Trump. For he is the Trumpiest and shall be in our hearts and penal codes forever!"

dudalb · 23rd August 2018, 05:04 PM

I wonder if the Airzone GOP is asking Donnie NOT to endorse any of the candidates, so the Dems can't accuse the winner of being Trump's puppet.
But a number of political commentaors have stated in lot of races nationwide , the GOP candidate is going have problems in the general election because the Dems are going to be sure swing voters remember the GOP candidate's oaths of eternal feality to Trump.

dudalb · 23rd August 2018, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by kellyb

No, Jimmy Dore is not a Trump fan.

He sure as hell is not saying much bad about Donnie, though.
It should tell you something that DOre has pretty much been ostracized from the Progressives "Young Turks" group because of his continued attacks on Hilary Clinton during the general election in 2016.
He said the election of Trump would be better for Progressives then the election of Hilary .

And the guy is a conspiracy loon:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jimmy_Dore

He also seems to be pretty friendly toward Putin.

With friends like him, the Progressives sure don't need any enemies.

PhantomWolf · 23rd August 2018, 05:48 PM

delete

9th August 2018, 07:56 PM	#41
Roger Ramjets Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,729	Originally Posted by carlitos (D) Obama fought for TPP and (R) Trump killed it, Not exactly true. Yes, Trump opposed it, but he was not the architect of its demise. Jul 26, 2016 How the TPP became the most divisive policy in the Democratic Party Quote: Democrats at the party's national convention in Philadelphia this week are riled up about something called the TPP, short for the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The bureaucratic title aside, this agreement would have major consequences in some developing countries and has become a potent rallying cry in the U.S. presidential campaign. In Philadelphia on Monday, delegates chanted "No TPP!" and brandished signs declaring their opposition. They were frustrated that the party's official platform did not explicitly reject the Trans-Pacific Partnership -- a reflection of the fierce disagreement among Democrats about the deal's merits. Hillary Clinton opposes the accord, even though she helped negotiate it as President Obama's secretary of state. Her former boss still supports it, though, as does her running mate, Sen. Timothy M. Kaine (D-Va.)
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

10th August 2018, 07:50 AM	#43
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,598	Originally Posted by dudalb GIven ABP's posting history, it's a case of extreme Anti Establishment Attitude. He sees Trump as destroying the Establishment (let's put off if that is true or not) and that is all he wants to see. Call if the Joker in "The Dark Knight" syndrome...he just wants to see the Forest Burn. This looks like the Mind-Reading Tell for Cognitive dissonance. or can you truly read minds?
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,598	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

14th August 2018, 09:01 AM	#45
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,343	Tennessee Senate Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

14th August 2018, 11:36 AM	#46
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune Marsha's the rep for the burbs a few miles east of me. She's kind of TN's own Sarah Palin. He's what my congressional rep said about her last week. https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...dge/953300002/ Quote: Rep. Steve Cohen under fire for saying he wished Marsha Blackburn would jump off a bridge LOL Btw, Corker was the one who said: Quote: We're in a strange place. I mean, it's almost, you know, it's becoming a cultish thing, isn't it? And it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a President that happens to be of purportedly of the same party. Probably the most insightful thing I've ever heard the dude say, because yes. Trump supporters are indeed essentially a cult at this point.
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

15th August 2018, 01:08 AM	#47
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,343	Originally Posted by kellyb Marsha's the rep for the burbs a few miles east of me. She's kind of TN's own Sarah Palin. He's what my congressional rep said about her last week. https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...dge/953300002/ LOL Btw, Corker was the one who said: Probably the most insightful thing I've ever heard the dude say, because yes. Trump supporters are indeed essentially a cult at this point. Are there any reliable in-state polls at present? All I've seen is a Gravis poll (which is neither in-state nor reliable) which shows her ahead by a few points.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

9th August 2018, 08:27 PM	#42
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18,802	Fair points about the Ds opposing TPP to try and get elected. How soon I forgot, only 400+ days or so...

10th August 2018, 07:53 AM	#44
WilliamSeger Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,999	Originally Posted by Drewbot This looks like the Mind-Reading Tell for Cognitive dissonance. or can you truly read minds? You don't know what "cognitive dissonance" means, do you?

15th August 2018, 02:06 AM	#48
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Are there any reliable in-state polls at present? All I've seen is a Gravis poll (which is neither in-state nor reliable) which shows her ahead by a few points. There's this: https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ace/781031002/ Quote: The poll found 44 percent of respondents said they favored Bredesen while 41 percent preferred Blackburn. Both candidates face nominal opposition in their respective primary races on Aug. 2. Early voting runs through July 28. Fifteen percent of respondents were undecided on the race. The poll, conducted by Public Policy Polling, also found respondents had a more negative view of Blackburn than positive. Thirty-three percent of those surveyed had a positive view of Blackburn while 46 percent had a negative view.
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

15th August 2018, 01:54 PM	#49
AlaskaBushPilot Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,033	Originally Posted by dudalb GIven ABP's posting history, it's a case of extreme Anti Establishment Attitude. He sees Trump as destroying the Establishment (let's put off if that is true or not) and that is all he wants to see. Call if the Joker in "The Dark Knight" syndrome...he just wants to see the Forest Burn. This is exactly why the democrats have lost all those governorships, all those federal senate and house seats, and all the state senate and house seats. It's relentless labeling and demonizing, instead of addressing arguments and coming up with programs the people will support. Pointing out how the shrill "racist, sexist, homophobe, etc." screeching has failed, and urging the dems to come up with a program most importantly for labor... The response is that I am the Joker in the Dark Knight who wants to burn everything down. More name-calling. Labelling. How does that get dems re-approaching Labor? It doesn't and that's why the dems will lose again. The leadership in the last month seems to have realized this and changed their midterm election slogan to "for the people". But it's too late. Because it has been two years of indoctrinating the remaining rank and file with "racist, sexist, homophobe, Joker, Arsonist, extremist, etc." They're "for the people", while calling the people despicable. Again, the approval ratings for Trump are not only fact, but understated for the same reason Trump support was understated in the presidential election. They are still sampling the same way. He is higher than Obama was at this juncture. You just are not getting the point that calling nearly half the country racist, sexist, homophobe, fascist, the Joker, etc. etc. is alientating them. It is abuse, not discussion. Reporting that to you, that hey look: your strategy is backfiring - the response is more name-calling. Can't seem to help yourself. Even if you are right, an extremist can have great points. Hitler had an extremely successful military strategy of Blitzkrieg. You don't argue against blitzkrieg, by saying it is an extremist's opinion. That is an ad hominem. Of all places, this board should know. What you also do in alienating people is run them off discussion boards. You aren't discussing, just hurling abuse. So the board becomes a delusional echo chamber. It isn't an insane psycho-killer delusion like you try to label me with. It is the rather simple mistake thinking you are in this huge majority and Trump has the KKK membership plus nazis. And the Joker Extremist Arsonist. I didn't vote for him, I made my anti-torture and anti-Imperialist views clear long before the general election on this board. I spoke out against the Goldman-Sachs appointments. Against the missile attacks in Syria, I oppose the Russian sanctions, the list is long. I have used Jimmy Kimmel, Noam Chomsky, even Michael Moore's positions on this board, I agree with a lot of them. I disagree with others. But it shows how the dems are not listening to their own people on important matters. They have alienated their own base, hence the record-low representation of dems in houses, senates, governorships, and the presidency. You learned absolutely nothing from the election of Trump. Doubled down on the same failed strategy, and it is amazing to me. Because it isn't very hard to sit down with Americal Labor, you literally do that. You meet with every labor organization systematically, sincerely, and instead of telling them what luddites they are, what despicable people they are, you just ask a simple question: what do you want. Tell us what to do. Act like you work for them. and I don't mean to "put on an act". I mean in the sense that actions FOR someone speak a lot more effectively than calling them names.

15th August 2018, 03:40 PM	#50
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery Posts: 19,744	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot This is exactly why the democrats have lost all those governorships, all those federal senate and house seats, and all the state senate and house seats. Not to defend dubalb here, because I already posted my disagreement, however: What makes you think he is, or has traditionally been, a Democrat?
	__________________ "You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles

15th August 2018, 04:16 PM	#51
AlaskaBushPilot Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,033	Originally Posted by Brainster In the mid-terms, it's a defensible strategy, Look how someone can be reasonable and make an argument instead of calling someone names. Thank you. Ordinarily, it would be. In the past, the Dems had a somewhat credible position of representing labor and republicans representing capital. But the democrats turned on labor and gave the field to Trump. So being anti-Trump does not fit the historic labor-vs-capital framework. The dems just hurled insults at labor after the last election, right up until now. So now at the last minute, the dems have turned their midterm election slogan into the more traditional democrats = "for the people". ie, labor. It is an attempt to put Trump in the traditional republicans = capital framework. The problem is it's too little, too late. The party is a giant ship whose rudder needed to be turned after the 2016 election, and they would then have had two years of credibility building. But instead it was two years of anti-Trump hysteria, where they were against Trump not because there was a better plan the democrats had for labor, but because Trump was the KKK and Hitler. And you, labor, who supported him are stupid white trailer trash sexist putin dupes. This hysteria has culminated in the coordinated censorship we are seeing now. That speaks a lot louder than a campaign slogan, and it is the Dems distinguishing themselves with not only calls for censorship but much worse. Again, Jimmy Dore did a show on how stupid this censorship is coming up to the midterms. It isn't just Alex Jones, but the left wing of the dems that are frightened with the militancy over the PC party line. The Bernie supporters are still watching the DNC argue in court they can choose whoever they want, give the money to whoevery they want, and the promise their votes would count... is a lie they are entitled to. So this "for the people" midterm sloganeering rings awfully hollow. Orwellian. Diversity = Conformity.
	Last edited by AlaskaBushPilot; 15th August 2018 at 04:20 PM.

15th August 2018, 04:29 PM	#52
AlaskaBushPilot Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,033	Originally Posted by LSSBB Not to defend dubalb here, because I already posted my disagreement, however: What makes you think he is, or has traditionally been, a Democrat? I didn't say he was. I pointed to his name-calling. It isn't an argument. And the democrats have used that strategy ad nauseum. Likewise, not an argument. And the result of that strategy is catastrophic losses in federal house seats, federal senate seats, the presidency, governorships, state house seats, state senatorships, now appointmenst of judges for years to come... How much evidence do you need that this strategy is failing? The poster is using this failed strategy. Labeling me instead of using logic and reason. So I appeal to reason and evidence: stop calling me names. It is not reason. The evidence is it fails in historically singular fashion.

15th August 2018, 04:29 PM	#53
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 41,731	Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap. He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

15th August 2018, 04:30 PM	#54
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 41,731	And if name calling means calling out Trump for the total and dangerous POS he is I plead guilty.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

15th August 2018, 04:59 PM	#55
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot Look how someone can be reasonable and make an argument instead of calling someone names. Thank you. Ordinarily, it would be. In the past, the Dems had a somewhat credible position of representing labor and republicans representing capital. But the democrats turned on labor and gave the field to Trump. So being anti-Trump does not fit the historic labor-vs-capital framework. The dems just hurled insults at labor after the last election, right up until now. So now at the last minute, the dems have turned their midterm election slogan into the more traditional democrats = "for the people". ie, labor. It is an attempt to put Trump in the traditional republicans = capital framework. The problem is it's too little, too late. The party is a giant ship whose rudder needed to be turned after the 2016 election, and they would then have had two years of credibility building. But instead it was two years of anti-Trump hysteria, where they were against Trump not because there was a better plan the democrats had for labor, but because Trump was the KKK and Hitler. And you, labor, who supported him are stupid white trailer trash sexist putin dupes. This hysteria has culminated in the coordinated censorship we are seeing now. That speaks a lot louder than a campaign slogan, and it is the Dems distinguishing themselves with not only calls for censorship but much worse. Again, Jimmy Dore did a show on how stupid this censorship is coming up to the midterms. It isn't just Alex Jones, but the left wing of the dems that are frightened with the militancy over the PC party line. The Bernie supporters are still watching the DNC argue in court they can choose whoever they want, give the money to whoevery they want, and the promise their votes would count... is a lie they are entitled to. So this "for the people" midterm sloganeering rings awfully hollow. Orwellian. Diversity = Conformity. Democrats would not have put anti-union judges on the Supreme Court.
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537

15th August 2018, 05:17 PM	#56
AlaskaBushPilot Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,033	Originally Posted by dudalb Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap. He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan. And right back to labeling. It's amazing to watch! I am the one pointing out Jimmy Dore is a left wing democrat with a large following, ie Bernie supporters. I point out that all of this ad hominem abuse is neither logic/reason nor a successful election strategy. You respond with irrational name-calling. Bernie fan = Trump fan. You cannot address his points, so you label him the worst thing you can think of.

15th August 2018, 05:52 PM	#57
AlaskaBushPilot Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,033	Originally Posted by dudalb And if name calling means calling out Trump for the total and dangerous POS he is I plead guilty. No, it doesn't mean that and it is crystal clear from my posts. This isn't an argument. It is a straw man and empty virtue-signalling. Your answer to why labor was lost, why Bernie supporters were lost, etc. is label, label, label. And we really do get it. You aren't calling Trump a dangerous POS, but more than half the country. Because it isn't just the Trump supporters. It's the left wing of the democratic party too. If you aren't conforming, you're [label] I am not calling you names. I have made a lot of points, like losing labor. Losing the left wing of the party. The DNC lawsuit where it argues the party elites can name the nominee regardless of the promises in their charter and the votes of the rank and file. I keep making points like this, and it's label, label, label.

15th August 2018, 07:28 PM	#58
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,343	Hey, ya know what? There were some interesting primary results on Tuesday. Does anyone have any comments on them, or is this going to devolve into another thread of pissing on each others' socks? Ellison, accused perpetrator of domestic violence won his primary in MN. This could still be quite the sideshow. On the more interesting front, the nomination for his old seat (and a near shoo-in for the win in November) is gonna have Steve King and Louie Gohmertz flipping out. A) It's a "she". B) She is a muslim, funky garb and everything. C) She is a Somalian refugee. The "she" in the previous sentences is Ilhan Omar. And not that it matters but I find her gorgeous. Then there's always Christine Haliquist, who got the nomination for the governorship of Vermont. And not that it matters, but I don't find her gorgeous. Do they have, like Regional New England Governors Conferences. I'd love to see that piece of crap from Maine have to deal with a transgender governor from Vermont.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

16th August 2018, 01:11 PM	#59
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,598	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot No, it doesn't mean that and it is crystal clear from my posts. This isn't an argument. It is a straw man and empty virtue-signalling. Your answer to why labor was lost, why Bernie supporters were lost, etc. is label, label, label. And we really do get it. You aren't calling Trump a dangerous POS, but more than half the country. Because it isn't just the Trump supporters. It's the left wing of the democratic party too. If you aren't conforming, you're [label] I am not calling you names. I have made a lot of points, like losing labor. Losing the left wing of the party. The DNC lawsuit where it argues the party elites can name the nominee regardless of the promises in their charter and the votes of the rank and file. I keep making points like this, and it's label, label, label. The racist sexist homophobe Union & Manufacturing workers in Michigan, who voted for Trump instead of Hillary, would have probably voted in Bernie. Since both Trump and Bernie are closer on trade and labor than Hillary. Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,598	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

16th August 2018, 05:36 PM	#60
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Gun-lovin', immigration and abortion hatin' GOP candidate for Corker's vacated seat starts the stampede to run away from Trump. Expect more to follow now that the primaries are winding up. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...anges-her-tune Yeah, I was wondering when this was going to happen. I further expect there to be a more vigorous revolt within the GOP ranks against Trump if they lose the House in November. Trump might even draw a primary challenger for 2020 (if so, my money's on either Kasich or Romney).
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

16th August 2018, 05:57 PM	#61
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 41,731	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Yeah, I was wondering when this was going to happen. I further expect there to be a more vigorous revolt within the GOP ranks against Trump if they lose the House in November. Trump might even draw a primary challenger for 2020 (if so, my money's on either Kasich or Romney). I think Kasich is going to run,only question will he do so as a Repunlican or go the third Party Route. Going to the left or right to win the primary, then sneaking back into the center for the general election is an old,old,trick with both parties. Problem is in trying to out Trump Trump,many Republicans have gone too far out to jump back to the center,and the Dems have all the extreme statements they made to win the GOP nod on tape and video and ready to go....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th August 2018, 05:59 PM	#62
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 41,731	Originally Posted by Drewbot The racist sexist homophobe Union & Manufacturing workers in Michigan, who voted for Trump instead of Hillary, would have probably voted in Bernie. Since both Trump and Bernie are closer on trade and labor than Hillary. Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace. This is funny, given that the Trump administration is the most anti Union we have seen in a long time. And just wait until Trump's Tariff policies lead to disaster, as they will.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th August 2018, 08:49 PM	#63
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by Drewbot Now, the DNC & the Left has labeled them idiots, and racists for two years, instead of admitting they put up a bad candidate, and trying to correct their support of a globalist candidate that those workers felt would not have stood up for them in the international marketplace. What the heck is a "globalist"? In context, it sounds like you're using it as a substitute for "pro-market" or "free trade" proponent.
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

16th August 2018, 09:09 PM	#64
Venom Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,755	Originally Posted by kellyb What the heck is a "globalist"? I once opened a thread to ask just that Seems to be a front term for "international Jew" [or Zionist].

16th August 2018, 09:12 PM	#65
Norman Alexander Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 3,494	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot And right back to labeling. It's amazing to watch! I am the one pointing out Jimmy Dore is a left wing democrat with a large following, ie Bernie supporters. I point out that all of this ad hominem abuse is neither logic/reason nor a successful election strategy. You respond with irrational name-calling. Bernie fan = Trump fan. You cannot address his points, so you label him the worst thing you can think of. Just FYI: Bernie is not a lefty. He is very much a centrist shading to the right compared to everywhere but the USA. Because the US political scene has been so skewed to the right that some of them are so hard up against the wall they can't raise their right arms. So everybody, everybody!, else is "on the left".
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

16th August 2018, 09:20 PM	#66
Venom Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,755	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Just FYI: Bernie is not a lefty. He is very much a centrist shading to the right compared to everywhere but the USA. Because the US political scene has been so skewed to the right that some of them are so hard up against the wall they can't raise their right arms. So everybody, everybody!, else is "on the left". Disagree. Bernie Sanders is definitely to the left of the vast majority of current US politicians, and would be at almost any point in U.S. history. His ideas fall squarely within the realm of an FDR or JFK, LBJ. Though people who think he is too radical might believe so because, as you mentioned, everything's pulled to the right nowadays. And btw **** Jimmy Dore. Tired of his purity tests

16th August 2018, 11:06 PM	#67
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by Venom Disagree. Bernie Sanders is definitely to the left of the vast majority of current US politicians, and would be at almost any point in U.S. history. His ideas fall squarely within the realm of an FDR or JFK, LBJ. Though people who think he is too radical might believe so because, as you mentioned, everything's pulled to the right nowadays. He might be to the left of the politicians, but when you poll regular people issue by issue, most of his ideas (including Medicare for All) have majority support.
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

16th August 2018, 11:08 PM	#68
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by dudalb Oh please, stop the Jimmy Dore crap. He is a Bernie supporter who now has become, apparently a big Trump fan. No, Jimmy Dore is not a Trump fan.
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

18th August 2018, 05:22 AM	#69
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18,050	Officials Defend Plan To Close Almost All Polling Places In Majority Black Georgia County Quote: Election officials in a rural southwest Georgia county are defending a plan to suddenly close seven of the county’s nine polling places against allegations of racial discrimination, saying the ones it wants to close are not sufficiently accessible to people with disabilities. Quote: Randolph County, the site of the proposed changes, is more than 60 percent black, with a little over 30 percent of residents in poverty ― more than double the national level.. Those voters were less likely to own a car and would be required to walk over three hours to one of the two remaining polling locations because there is no public transportation to get them there. The ACLU also noted the voter makeup of one of the polling places officials wanted to close was 96.7 percent black. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0a5b1febb04fc

18th August 2018, 05:54 AM	#70
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 39,343	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Officials Defend Plan To Close Almost All Polling Places In Majority Black Georgia County https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0a5b1febb04fc I'm pretty certain that you can't clean up your accessibility stats by simply closing the places that are not in compliance. I saw a law suit in the making. Remember, America.... this is the Congress that voted that we had to defang the Voters Rights precautions 'cuz the states are swell folks and they wouldn't do anything to harm their coloreds.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

20th August 2018, 08:30 AM	#71
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,824	Originally Posted by kellyb re: Bernie Sanders... He might be to the left of the politicians, but when you poll regular people issue by issue, most of his ideas (including Medicare for All) have majority support. Getting a bit off topic here... but: I'd be very cautious when you look at polls that look at how people feel on an issue by issue basis, since such polling questions don't give a complete view of people's attitudes, and could lead to contradictions. (Plus, polling questions often don't go into enough details for people to make an informed decision.) For example, if you ask people "Do you want Medicare for all", you may get a lot of people saying "yes". But did the question go into details about a funding model? What it would cover? And if you ask them "Do you want medicare for all if it means raising taxes to cover it" I'm sure a lot of people would change their minds.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

20th August 2018, 08:35 AM	#72
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 14,724	1. People lie to pollsters. 2. Polls are inherently biased toward people who care a lot about the issue and/or have extreme opinions. 3. Entire libraries have been written about how you can word polls to get the answer you want and manipulate poll numbers to say whatever you want. 4. Polls don't take into account "One Issue Voters."
	__________________ "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal

20th August 2018, 08:51 AM	#74
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue 1. People lie to pollsters. 2. Polls are inherently biased toward people who care a lot about the issue and/or have extreme opinions. 3. Entire libraries have been written about how you can word polls to get the answer you want and manipulate poll numbers to say whatever you want. 4. Polls don't take into account "One Issue Voters." 1) data is often flawed so let's just totally ignore all data 2) nobody knows anything 3) I'm making really useful contributions to this conversation
kellyb Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,540	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

20th August 2018, 09:20 AM	#75
Delphic Oracle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 2,593	Originally Posted by kellyb 1) data is often flawed so let's just totally ignore all data 2) nobody knows anything 3) I'm making really useful contributions to this conversation 4) These polls don't align with my own anecdotal life sampling and subsequent beliefs about what consensus (or resistance) identity I can wrap myself up in.

20th August 2018, 11:27 AM	#76
The_Animus Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,917	Labor who voted for Trump thinking he was on their side are fools. Anyone who did any research would have known better but they wanted to believe so they blindly followed the vague promises of the magic man.
	__________________ Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion. Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.