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Old 30th August 2018, 10:25 AM   #201
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For comic relief, the Cumeo/Nixon race in New York is getting pretty entertaining.
Sort of "Sex, Politics, and the City".
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:26 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If DeSantis had said "Don't throw a monkey wrench into the election by going socialist..." it would still have been a "racist dog whistle".

<snip>

Dog whistle, maybe. But at least it wouldn't have been the bugle call that this was.
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:31 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Hmm tweeting about his DWI arrest? I mean the Texas GOP would never nominate someone with a DWI on their record for political office now would they



Hmmm.... Let me think, can you say 'George'?

Say what you want, Beto takes a great 'mug' shot.
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:39 AM   #204
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My guess is DeSantis said that to slip and counter-punch his Democratic opponents.

Of course we are going to say he was being racist, and his Floridian base hates that word. He can claim he was using a figure of speech and fire up his base against those racecard-swiping Democrats...
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:50 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
For comic relief, the Cumeo/Nixon race in New York is getting pretty entertaining.
Sort of "Sex, Politics, and the City".
She did a damn good job. Personally, I have a huge problem with Cuomo.

I'm a union guy, but the way New York has mishandled construction of major projects is a joke. I cannot help but compare the massive overruns and delays on the East side Access Project, the Fulton Transit center, the World Trade Center station, the Second Avenue Subway, the 7 extension with Crossrail in London. In comparison, Crossrail is a much bigger project then what has been happening in New York. And it is on time and on budget.

In contrast, the NYC projects are finishing as much as a decade late and costing 3 times initial estimates.

The East side Access Project had hundreds of workers all making 6 figure plus T&M jobs and yet were doing absolutely nothing. And the contractors were charging the MTA twice those salaries.

And the Governor has failed on oversight.
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:52 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post



Hmmm.... Let me think, can you say 'George'?

Say what you want, Beto takes a great 'mug' shot.
Yeah, lord help the Texas GOP if we start excluding everyone with a DUI arrest from participating.

Best response: Tweet

ETA: TXGOP response is not bad, though: Tweet
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Old 30th August 2018, 11:01 AM   #207
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Currently 538 gives democrats a 72% chance to flip the house, down from 77% at the beginning of August.

There has been a lot of talk about a blue wave but I think it will be smaller than anticipated.
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Old 30th August 2018, 11:05 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
To be fair, a dog turd would look cool next to the Texas GOP.
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Old 30th August 2018, 11:10 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Currently 538 gives democrats a 72% chance to flip the house, down from 77% at the beginning of August.

There has been a lot of talk about a blue wave but I think it will be smaller than anticipated.
I don't put that much stock in the polls 2 months early.

If these elections end up being about Trump it will be a tidal wave. But they rarely are about President. Time and time again, people will give Congress poor marks yet speak highly about their local Congressman.
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Old 30th August 2018, 11:11 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
She did a damn good job. Personally, I have a huge problem with Cuomo.

I'm a union guy, but the way New York has mishandled construction of major projects is a joke. I cannot help but compare the massive overruns and delays on the East side Access Project, the Fulton Transit center, the World Trade Center station, the Second Avenue Subway, the 7 extension with Crossrail in London. In comparison, Crossrail is a much bigger project then what has been happening in New York. And it is on time and on budget.

In contrast, the NYC projects are finishing as much as a decade late and costing 3 times initial estimates.

The East side Access Project had hundreds of workers all making 6 figure plus T&M jobs and yet were doing absolutely nothing. And the contractors were charging the MTA twice those salaries.

And the Governor has failed on oversight.
It's no secret a Certain Italian American Fraternal Organization is almost always heavily involved with any big construction job in NYC. I am sure that has something to do with the overruns and delays...
And NO, I am not making a Cuemo is in with the Mob accusation. Mayors and Governors come and go, but the LCN is forever, apparently.
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Old 30th August 2018, 11:39 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's no secret a Certain Italian American Fraternal Organization is almost always heavily involved with any big construction job in NYC. I am sure that has something to do with the overruns and delays...
And NO, I am not making a Cuemo is in with the Mob accusation. Mayors and Governors come and go, but the LCN is forever, apparently.

I used to work for a environmental and construction testing lab in NY; asbestos and lead paint on the environmental side and concrete and steel testing on the construction side. I worked at an office in Albany, but the main office was about 30 miles outside Manhattan, and they worked on projects throughout the city. Long after I left the company I ran into someone who had worked at the downstate office for years and left before I had started. He told the story of regularly seeing expensive cars pull into the company parking lot and men in fancy suits with suspicious bulges under their jackets getting out to visit the company owner.
The company shut down a few years after I left after they were found to be falsifying construction test results and double-and triple-billing clients.

Last edited by Armitage72; 30th August 2018 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 30th August 2018, 08:50 PM   #212
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Someone took the time to compile a list of politicians and pundits racially bullhorning terms such as "monkey business", "monkeying around" etc.

A few names of note:

Barack Obama
Dick Durbin
Jay Carney
Josh Ernest
Chuck Schumer
John Kerry
Bernie Sanders
Robert Byrd
Adam Schiff

Looks like the Dems are no longer hiding from their long history of racism and are now embracing it fully.
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Old 30th August 2018, 09:42 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Someone took the time to compile a list of politicians and pundits racially bullhorning terms such as "monkey business", "monkeying around" etc.

A few names of note:

Barack Obama
Dick Durbin
Jay Carney
Josh Ernest
Chuck Schumer
John Kerry
Bernie Sanders
Robert Byrd
Adam Schiff

Looks like the Dems are no longer hiding from their long history of racism and are now embracing it fully.
The beauty of plausible deniability. Ever hear of context? Doesn't sound like you have.
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Old 31st August 2018, 02:31 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Someone took the time to compile a list of politicians and pundits racially bullhorning terms such as "monkey business", "monkeying around" etc.
I'm not aware that those uses have a racial component. Perhaps you can expand.






Perhaps not, however.
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Old 31st August 2018, 04:52 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
In comparison, Crossrail is a much bigger project then what has been happening in New York. And it is on time and on budget.
If only that were true! It's going to be at least 9 months late and at least £650 million over budget.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tumn-next-year
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Old 31st August 2018, 05:13 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
If only that were true! It's going to be at least 9 months late and at least £650 million over budget.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tumn-next-year
I'm sorry to hear that. I've been checking the updates on that project for years. Still a 5 to 10 percent overrun and 9 months pales next to 300 percent overruns and 10 years.
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Old 31st August 2018, 05:40 AM   #217
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"Let's build off the success we've had with Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."
-- Ron DeSantis (Aug 28, 2018)


"Ron DeSantis says voters would 'monkey this up' if they elected his African-American opponent."
-- Fake News CNN (Aug 29, 2018)
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Old 31st August 2018, 06:36 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Let's build off the success we've had with Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."
-- Ron DeSantis (Aug 28, 2018)


"Ron DeSantis says voters would 'monkey this up' if they elected his African-American opponent."
-- Fake News CNN (Aug 29, 2018)
Er, that is a factual statement. He did say that electing his opponent (who is African-American) would "monkey this up".

See, the thing is that when you cry about fake news, you're supposed to show them saying something that is literally false. I know, I know, Trump doesn't bother with that step, but decent folk do. So give it another go.
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Old 31st August 2018, 06:43 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
My guess is DeSantis said that to slip and counter-punch his Democratic opponents.

Of course we are going to say he was being racist, and his Floridian base hates that word. He can claim he was using a figure of speech and fire up his base against those racecard-swiping Democrats...
I agree to a point. The use of the word may or may not have been a deliberate "slip". I am not one to jump into a camp that presumes that word is automatically racist. However, I think picking such a debatable word choice to assert racism on behalf of a Republican opponent will only serve to fire up his base, and is probably a mistake. I think "my side" is making that same mistake in varying degrees throughout the country this election cycle.
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Old 31st August 2018, 06:55 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
He did say that electing his opponent (who is African-American) would "monkey this up".

No he didn't! That's not what he said. His comment never used the phrase "electing his opponent."

Recommended course work: Reading Comprehension 101.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:00 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I agree to a point. The use of the word may or may not have been a deliberate "slip". I am not one to jump into a camp that presumes that word is automatically racist. However, I think picking such a debatable word choice to assert racism on behalf of a Republican opponent will only serve to fire up his base, and is probably a mistake. I think "my side" is making that same mistake in varying degrees throughout the country this election cycle.
The word ISN'T automatically racist. If Gillum was White or Asian or Native American, no one would have thought twice about it. But Gillum is an African American. And there is a long dark history of of the comparison of simians to Blacks. DeSantis is either racially insensitive and oblivious, which just makes him stupid. Or he's blatantly signalling the redneck bigots.

Gillum can't and isn't focusing on this probable racism. Others might, but he and his campaign isn't.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:14 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
No he didn't! That's not what he said. His comment never used the phrase "electing his opponent."

Recommended course work: Reading Comprehension 101.
He said "electing a socialist agenda". I looked. Is the "socialist agenda" running? For which party. Or perhaps you're saying that Gillum's not a socialist (your friends at Fox and Breitbart will be coming for you if that's the case).


You can argue (not too successfully but you can argue it) that "monkey up" was a stupid slip of the tongue. He was clutching for a phrase because he probably wanted to say "**** this up" and switching in "monkey". That argument might have legs but then you have to wonder why "monkey" of all words?

But to argue that he wasn't referring to his opponent? You know, the one that the right is accusing of being a socialist? That opponent? To argue that he didn't say "if you elect my opponent" because he said "electing a socialist agenda" is really pathetic.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:32 AM   #223
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Assuming that there will be clear evidence that Russia messed with the actual voting system (voting machines, voter rolls etc.) in the Midterms -
what consequences will that likely have?
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:42 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
He said "electing a socialist agenda".

Yet another misquote!
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:46 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Assuming that there will be clear evidence that Russia messed with the actual voting system (voting machines, voter rolls etc.) in the Midterms -
what consequences will that likely have?
I think based on past history we can make some predictions.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:47 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
No he didn't! That's not what he said. His comment never used the phrase "electing his opponent."

Recommended course work: Reading Comprehension 101.
You think it wasn't about the upcoming election, in which the choice is between him and his opponent?

You are seriously suggesting that this "monkeying up" comment wasn't about the choice that voters will make this November and hence had nothing to do with his opponent in that race?

If you had said that he made an unfortunate choice of words, a choice which unintentionally suggests racism, I would've likely bought it. But to claim that your "reading comprehension" skills allow you to conclude that this wasn't a reference to his opponent at all is simply pathetic. Of course it was a reference to his opponent. That was, after all, the real point of the speech. Vote for me rather than him.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:49 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
No he didn't! That's not what he said. His comment never used the phrase "electing his opponent."

Recommended course work: Reading Comprehension 101.
Yes, reading comprehension 101. He is clearly saying that electing his opponent would support a socialist agenda and that this would be "monkeying" things up.

I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, if he hadn't first explained that his opponent is "articulate", a strange things to say in this context, but perfectly understandable under the racist mindset.
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Old 31st August 2018, 07:54 AM   #228
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Ah, we've hit the "But our guy who models himself after a white supremacist president and helped run a racist Facebook group isn't the only guy who said the word "monkey" ever, so context doesn't matter" portion, only a day late.

Nice try, GOP fans, but nobody says "monkey this up". "Monkey around", "Monkey wrench", and the like have plausible deniability that "Monkey this up" does not, because those are actual phrases. Also, again, your party is lead by a pack of obvious white supremacists, which really hurts your credibility on the whole "We're not racist!" thing.

Now quit trying to exile people for being Hispanic.
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Old 31st August 2018, 11:19 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Someone took the time to compile a list of politicians and pundits racially bullhorning terms such as "monkey business", "monkeying around" etc.

A few names of note:

Barack Obama
Dick Durbin
Jay Carney
Josh Ernest
Chuck Schumer
John Kerry
Bernie Sanders
Robert Byrd
Adam Schiff

Looks like the Dems are no longer hiding from their long history of racism and are now embracing it fully.
You just don't get that this "The Dems are the real racist" B.S. is making people here laugh at you?
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Old 31st August 2018, 11:31 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You just don't get that this "The Dems are the real racist" B.S. is making people here laugh at you?
Well, they do seem to be the only ones who hear these racist dog whistles.

Meanwhile, Gillum himself is in the middle of an FBI investigation:

Quote:
According to the Tampa Bay Times, Tallahassee Mayor and Florida gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum has been scrutinized in a federal investigation that “centers around the city’s community redevelopment agency, which steers private and public money to revitalization and infrastructure projects.”

Lobbyist Adam Corey, a longtime friend of Gillum’s, is at the center of the probe, which has seen several rounds of subpoena’s served to the Tallahassee City Hall.

“In 2013, the community redevelopment agency (CRA) voted to give $1.3 million in taxpayer money to help a Corey-associated restaurant project, the Edison,” according to the Tampa Bay Times. “Gillum voted with the rest of his fellow city commissioners — who sit on the CRA — to fund of project. At the time, Gillum’s vote raised eyebrows because of his close association with Corey. One year later, Corey served as the treasurer of Gillum’s mayoral campaign.”
I find this particularly eye-opening:

Quote:
The meeting was arranged while Gillum was on vacation with Corey and another city lobbyist in Costa Rica. The trio, along with their significant others, spent their vacation in a $1,400 per night villa, which Gillum insists that he paid for personally.

“The mayor paid cash for all of he and Mrs. Gillum’s expenses,” Gillum’s chief of staff Jamie Van Pelt told the Tallahassee Democrat. “After publication, he clarified that Gillum paid cash for his portion of the villa, but used a credit card for all other expenses.”
Paid untraceable cash?
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Old 31st August 2018, 11:51 AM   #231
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Some people would not hear a Dog Whistle if it sounded next to their ears because they have partisan noise filters on.
Just like they wear blinders so that they don't see that Trump is showing himself to be an authoritatrin would be dictator every day.
But I guess Dictatorship and the end of Democracy is a small price to pay for Tax breaks and a couple of Supreme Court Justices.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:00 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Nice try, GOP fans, but nobody says "monkey this up". "Monkey around", "Monkey wrench", and the like have plausible deniability that "Monkey this up" does not, because those are actual phrases.

"Hey, hey, we're the Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down."

For some strange reason, suddenly I've got a huge craving for a bowl of Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:24 PM   #233
Imhotep
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Hey, hey, we're the Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down."

For some strange reason, suddenly I've got a huge craving for a bowl of Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream.
Mumbles was trying to say that "monkey this up" is not a common phrase compared to "monkey around". What are you trying to say?
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:30 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Mumbles was trying to say that "monkey this up" is not a common phrase compared to "monkey around". What are you trying to say?
He's making fun of dogs that bark for some reason when a guy blows a little metal device, because he thinks the dogs are imagining things, since he himself does not hear a whistle, and therefore it couldn't be that.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:38 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
He's making fun of dogs that bark for some reason when a guy blows a little metal device, because he thinks the dogs are imagining things, since he himself does not hear a whistle, and therefore it couldn't be that.
Devilishly deconstructed.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:41 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Some people would not hear a Dog Whistle if it sounded next to their ears because they have partisan noise filters on.
Apparently you are unaware of what a dog whistle (a literal one) is. If you can hear one sounded next to your ears, you are not a human. The whole notion of a figurative dog whistle is supposedly nobody hears it except racists. Hence my amusement at liberals hearing them everywhere.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:43 PM   #237
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I think a few basically decent people are in denial about what the GOP has become under Trump. They just don't want to see what their party has become. They keep making excuses and acting like Trump actions are no big deal.
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Old 31st August 2018, 12:52 PM   #238
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I really can't tell if it was a dog-whistle, or just someone who was thinking "**** things up" and caught himself before the f-word, substituting "monkey," as in meddling, screwing with a good thing, experimenting, etc. -- all the meanings of "monkey with."



If deliberate, the guy's a scumbag. If inadvertent, while mentally scrambling for a word to replace ****, it may mean nothing at all.


It is odd, however, that he first described his opponent as "articulate." When used alone, it implies that being articulate is out of character (i.e., that black people usually aren't), and hence is a backhanded compliment. When used as praise or recognition, one normally says, "articulate, cogent, and persuasive" or some other conglomeration of adjectives.
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Old 31st August 2018, 01:04 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Apparently you are unaware of what a dog whistle (a literal one) is. If you can hear one sounded next to your ears, you are not a human. The whole notion of a figurative dog whistle is supposedly nobody hears it except racists. Hence my amusement at liberals hearing them everywhere.
The key word being "literal". The perfect analogy would be the lack of needing one...
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Old 31st August 2018, 01:28 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Apparently you are unaware of what a dog whistle (a literal one) is. If you can hear one sounded next to your ears, you are not a human. The whole notion of a figurative dog whistle is supposedly nobody hears it except racists. Hence my amusement at liberals hearing them everywhere.
Ok, the metaphor isn't entirely apt. It's suggestive, but doesn't work.

So what?

I'm willing to buy that his phrase was unfortunate, perhaps he didn't mean a racial slur. But comments about the appropriateness of the metaphor really have nothing to do with anything. You and I know what is meant by dog whistle.
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