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Old 10th October 2018, 05:29 AM   #161
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I don't know if I call it "charisma" but a vague sort of predatory.... brand and image management I guess is the closest I can get... is the one thing Trump excels at.
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:32 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wait, Haley has presidential ambitions? She has zero charisma!
Yes, you are incorrect.
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:33 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Yes, you are incorrect.
How so?
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Old 10th October 2018, 07:08 AM   #164
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I can't tell if you're serious about asking me how a popular, physically attractive woman who was a governor and ambassador to the UN has no charisma?
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:02 AM   #165
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Nikki Haley is the perfect candidate: she's Republican, she's female, she probably has got other characteristics...
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:10 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Nikki Haley is the perfect candidate: she's Republican, she's female, she probably has got other characteristics...
She's also "as corrupt as the rest of them".

Last edited by theprestige; 10th October 2018 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:12 AM   #167
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:22 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I can't tell if you're serious about asking me how a popular, physically attractive woman who was a governor and ambassador to the UN has no charisma?
I'm serious, ok? I've now had to repeat myself multiple times: I don't find that she has any charisma. She seems about as interesting to watch as a plank of wood.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:32 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Lawrence O'Donnell speculated on MSNBC that maybe Haley is resigning to make some real money in the private sector for awhile, before returning to politics. (If so, nothing wrong with that either.)
I saw something on the news this morning mentioning that she has racked up significant debt while being ambassador and that she is likely leaving for a lucrative private sector opportunity.

Is so, I hope she makes massive bank doing very little for conservative organizations.
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Old 10th October 2018, 10:25 AM   #170
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Just think of the curtains that she could buy with all of that conservative dough.
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Old 10th October 2018, 10:47 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Maybe I'm missing the sarcasm here, but I don't find it corrupt to resign one office to seek another one.
Neither do I.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I was referring back to the topic of the thread, and the original accusation that prompted it. If your interest is to discuss Nikki Haley apart from accusations of corruption in the matter of Ambassadorial Window Treatments, you may want to consider starting a separate thread for that purpose.
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Old 10th October 2018, 10:54 AM   #172
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All I had to hear from Nikki Haley was that she'll be campaigning for Trump in 2020. I lost any respect for her with that.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:11 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Oh, no. Trump has some charisma. In fact his one and only talent is to sell himself. So, nice try, but next time base your retroactive predictions on actual fact.

And no, I'm not 'incorrect'. I find that she has no charisma.
If you had said "I find that Nikki Haley has zero charisma." I would not have questioned you. But you said "She has zero charisma."

I question your fact statement only, not your editorial statement.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wait, Haley has presidential ambitions? She has zero charisma!
She's not white, either. That'll lose her a good percentage of the current Trump base.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:30 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
All I had to hear from Nikki Haley was that she'll be campaigning for Trump in 2020. I lost any respect for her with that.
Yeah, but how much respect did you still have for her after she accepted a position in Trump's administration?

Actually, did this announcement actually cost her any of your respect at all, after she ran for governor of South Carolina as a Republican in 2010?

You say she lost your respect, as if she incurred some meaningful cost. But I suspect she never had any of your respect to lose in the first place.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:30 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If you had said "I find that Nikki Haley has zero charisma." I would not have questioned you. But you said "She has zero charisma."

I question your fact statement only, not your editorial statement.
+1.


Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
She's not white, either. That'll lose her a good percentage of the current Trump base.
Or black, either! From her wikipedia page:

Originally Posted by wikipedia
When Haley was five years old, her parents attempted to enter her in the "Miss Bamberg" contest. The contest traditionally crowned a black queen and a white queen. Since the judges decided Haley did not fit either category, they disqualified her.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:36 AM   #177
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Belz... , I think you are wrong about her charisma. If you see her in less scripted appearances she seems likable, at the least.

This interview shows that to some degree: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/1b9vpb...rt-nikki-haley

But, I don't think she is heading back into politics. More money elsewhere.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:42 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm serious, ok? I've now had to repeat myself multiple times: I don't find that she has any charisma. She seems about as interesting to watch as a plank of wood.
Yet somehow what you thought was a plank of wood was elected governor twice and also I believe a state legislator. I suspect a lot of people think she does have charisma.

If you were a conservative I would accuse you of being a misogynist and a racist (she is Indian).
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:43 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
She's not white, either. That'll lose her a good percentage of the current Trump base.
It didn't stop her from winning in South Carolina.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:45 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I saw something on the news this morning mentioning that she has racked up significant debt while being ambassador and that she is likely leaving for a lucrative private sector opportunity.

Is so, I hope she makes massive bank doing very little for conservative organizations.
I get what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure that's actually a problem. Political careers are a lot about timing, and it can take several years to put together the right combination of issues, funding, and opportunity to make a run for high office. Keeping a good prospect on retainer for a couple years while you wait for the right time to make a move is probably not a bad idea. A lot of Hillary's top folks rotated in and out of positions in her nonprofits, between her time at state and when they joined her campaign staff (and hopefully her Cabinet).

So yeah, I hope that some good, reputable conservative organization finds something useful and productive for her to do, and that they pay her well for it. But staying on retainer for a year or two can itself be a useful and productive thing.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:47 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If you had said "I find that Nikki Haley has zero charisma." I would not have questioned you. But you said "She has zero charisma."
Jesus goddamn Christ why does this set people off so damn much?

Here's a hint. Since Belz isn't Q from Star Trek and can't create reality with his words, you can just assume there's a "My opinion" in front of everything he says. He shouldn't have to spell it out.

Some us just never developed the linguistic tick of slapping a pointless "The following is my opinion" disclaimer on everything we say.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:48 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If you had said "I find that Nikki Haley has zero charisma." I would not have questioned you. But you said "She has zero charisma."
There is absolutely no difference between the two statements unless you're being mindlessly pedantic. Every value judgment or statement of preference or taste is necessarily an opinion. Charisma can't be calculated, so obviously it's what I find, not some sort of statement of fact.

This is the weakest possible objection to my post you could find.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:52 AM   #183
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You guys are both right. I have no idea why that set me off today; maybe it was the "how so" reply to the challenges. I apologize.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You guys are both right.
And we are also both wrong. This is the dilemma that will occupy this panel, this Navy, and this country's armed forces as a whole long after you leave this room.
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Old 10th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, but how much respect did you still have for her after she accepted a position in Trump's administration?

Actually, did this announcement actually cost her any of your respect at all, after she ran for governor of South Carolina as a Republican in 2010?

You say she lost your respect, as if she incurred some meaningful cost. But I suspect she never had any of your respect to lose in the first place.
And you'd be wrong. I actually had respect for her as a woman who had succeeded in being elected a governor. Women are still woefully under represented in the higher echelons of government. I also respected her for pushing through the bill to remove the Confederate flag from the S.C. capitol grounds. I respected her for contradicting Kudlow's claim that she was "confused" about Russia sanctions when she said "With all due respect, I don't get confused." But to actually campaign for Trump? That's just erases any respect I had for her.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:01 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Yet somehow what you thought was a plank of wood was elected governor twice and also I believe a state legislator. I suspect a lot of people think she does have charisma.

If you were a conservative I would accuse you of being a misogynist and a racist (she is Indian).
McConnell has been elected numerous times. Charismatic is not something I'd say describes McConnell. Ditto for Jeff Sessions.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:02 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
McConnell has been elected numerous times. Charismatic is not something I'd say describes McConnell.
Absolutely true.

Mind you, charisma is not the only thing that's important, but it's hard to get behind voting for someone who doesn't connect with people at any level. I guess it's the issues vote that gets them put in office.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:04 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Absolutely true.

Mind you, charisma is not the only thing that's important, but it's hard to get behind voting for someone who doesn't connect with people at any level. I guess it's the issues vote that gets them put in office.
For many people, perhaps most, it's the R or D next to their name.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:04 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Since Belz isn't Q from Star Trek and can't create reality with his words
Link plz, kthx.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:05 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
For many people, perhaps most, it's the R or D next to their name.
Well, put me in the basket of people who checks party platform before I vote in each election. I have zero party loyalty or affiliation.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:06 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Belz isn't Q from Star Trek
How would you know?

Quote:
Some us just never developed the linguistic tick of slapping a pointless "The following is my opinion" disclaimer on everything we say.
Funny fact, on the Star Trek BBS, of all places, my signature is "And that's my opinion" specifically because on my first day there some idiot made exactly this sort of nonsensical objection to an opinion I posted.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:15 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I get what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure that's actually a problem.
Are you saying it is not a problem to her having a continuing political career? Yeah, I agree. I think she will be back in politics, but I think she is out for now. She isn't leaving this job to take another political position just yet.

Quote:
So yeah, I hope that some good, reputable conservative organization finds something useful and productive for her to do, and that they pay her well for it. But staying on retainer for a year or two can itself be a useful and productive thing.
Again, I think we agree, except that we may differ on what is useful and productive at a reputable conservative organization.
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Old 10th October 2018, 01:26 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
There is absolutely no difference between the two statements unless you're being mindlessly pedantic. Every value judgment or statement of preference or taste is necessarily an opinion. Charisma can't be calculated, so obviously it's what I find, not some sort of statement of fact.

This is the weakest possible objection to my post you could find.
Charisma can be calculated. It's generally 3-18 , on a 3 six-sided die roll.
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Old 10th October 2018, 02:03 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
How would you know?
Because you haven't killed all of us in a fit of pique.
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Old 10th October 2018, 02:11 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
McConnell has been elected numerous times. Charismatic is not something I'd say describes McConnell. Ditto for Jeff Sessions.
Hillary Clinton got elected to the Senate, too, and charismatic is just about the last work I would use to describe her. I think charisma is a useful, but not essential quality for someone running for public office.
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Old 10th October 2018, 02:37 PM   #196
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There are multiple reasons someone might leave a political office. Medical reasons, family affairs, financial matters.
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:40 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Hillary Clinton got elected to the Senate, too, and charismatic is just about the last work I would use to describe her. I think charisma is a useful, but not essential quality for someone running for public office.
Trump got elected and charisma is far from the last word I would use to describe him, too. Unless 'charisma' means 'the ability to produce intense nausea and disgust'. I do agree that it is not an essential quality for obtaining office, otherwise the government wouldn't be full of non-charismatic people.
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:54 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because you haven't killed all of us in a fit of pique.
Maybe I did. How would you know?
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:49 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
There are multiple reasons someone might leave a political office. Medical reasons, family affairs, financial matters.
She didn’t like the curtains...
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