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Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Christine Blasey Ford , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees , Trump controversies

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Old 30th September 2018, 05:59 AM   #361
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
When anyone says the language he used in his yearbook quotes means something different than what he says they mean.
The next time someone tells me that vent gleet means anything other than what I say it means (a refreshing beverage, of course) ... I will bear in mind that I'm conversing with a conspiracy theorist.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:01 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What do you think are the odds that he "forgot or misremembered" everything written in his yearbook relating to sexual or drinking slang?
He "forgot or misremembered" what "boofing", "ralphing", and "devil's triangle" all mean? How convenient.

You think he "forgot or misremembered" what a "Renate alumnius" was when he claimed the term was " used to show affection, to show she was one of us"?
This is the yearbook 'poem' that another boy wrote about Renate:



K's best bud at the time, Mark Judge, described in his book
(The Guardian)

When asked by Sen. Leahy if he was "Bart O'Kavanaugh" K became belligerent and accused Leahy of trying to make fun of an alcoholic:


K would neither deny nor confirm that he was "Bart O'Kavanaugh".

Yet here are tons of liberal posters willing to believe Ford forgot tons. #doublestandards
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:05 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A lengthy guide to Kav's dissembling:

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/...naugh-is-lying
Can I bump this.It's a very well-worked article and worth the time to read. As Bob mentioned, it's lengthy... but I think worth it.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:09 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by BeanieBaby View Post
Owned by Jeff Bozos. Known liar and womanizing cheat
First, I want to know your sources for the above claims. Second, do you really not see that Trump is all those things?

I tend to believe people are sincere in their posting, but in this case I am not sure your response is not satirical.

The whoppers Trump tells include talking about his historical landslide EC college victory. Mark Levin actually eviscerated Trump on this topic. He's barely in the bottom quartile of EC victories. There's no reason to rely on WaPo if you find it untrustworthy. He lies constantly, often in easily verifiable ways from public records. He could think he was telling the truth, but not without revealing that he's not quite right in the head.

Last edited by Minoosh; 30th September 2018 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:12 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Geez, the Judicial Crisis Network works fast...

New political saturation ad with several old girlfriends stating why Kav must be approved.
Why fast? They've had two weeks to make it just in case. Only losers and Democrats sit around waiting for "the process" to fail on its own before considering their next step. Winners prep.

Similarly, how do you think the GOP managed to get 65 women who knew him in high school to sign a letter supporting him overnight after the allegations broke? They knew they were coming and had it ready beforehand, that's how.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:31 AM   #366
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Saw this on twitter earlier regarding statute of limitations and Kavanaugh.

DoT0BN7W0AAxPXt.jpg
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:46 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Yet here are tons of liberal posters willing to believe Ford forgot tons. #doublestandards
Really? Could you please explain how the senators questions could be perceived as making fun of an alcoholic? Kavanaughs pathetic distraction didn't even make sense.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:46 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Again, how is that a conspiracy theory? What's the conspiracy?
Bump for Bogative, who a few hours ago chastised someone for ignoring things that challenged their beliefs.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:49 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Funny how selective people are when it fits their narrative.
Indeed. It explains why you're ignoring the questions put to you by me about memory, and the research linked to by me about memory. You choose to ignore that in order to keep pushing the narrative that you want to push.

This seems to be your usual MO, although you don't normally do it while railing against your own actions.
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Old 30th September 2018, 06:57 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Bump for Bogative, who a short while ago chastised someone for ignoring things that challenged their beliefs.
Already answered, you just ignored it.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:06 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I'm confused. Do you want the real reason, or what Trump would see as the reason, or how one of his lackeys would convince him? They're all variations on "because he really did do it" anyway.
I know. But are they really not able to act independently of Trump's orders?

Let's say they go and interview Person A on the list and they say, "Person X has told me that they witnessed everything\" or for the sake of complete impartiality "Person X has told me that Dr Ford made up the whole thing", but Person X is not on the list, does this mean that the FBI cannot interview them?

Or let's say that a pile of evidence mounts up and it is damning, at least of one person's story, but it will take a few weeks to leaf through it. Now, I can understand if the Senate says that they are going to take the vote anyway, but I cannot understand the idea that the FBI must suspend their investigation because it went longer than a week. That would be insane!
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:09 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
What evidence do you have that Omar Mateen's call to 911 was anything other than an afterthought?

Looks to me like the bias is yours.
Quote:
In the hours before the shooting, Mateen used several Facebook accounts to write posts vowing vengeance for American airstrikes in Iraq and Syria and to search for content related to terrorism. These posts, since deleted, were recovered and included in an open letter[123] by Senate Homeland Security Chairman Ron Johnson to Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg seeking further information about Mateen's use of the site.
I bolded the relevant part so no one misses it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orland...#cite_note-123
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:10 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Saw this on twitter earlier regarding statute of limitations and Kavanaugh.

Attachment 38996
Sorry, I tried to make out what it says. It was something like this, "In 1982, assault and attempted rape were misdemeanors and therefore subject to a one-year statute of limitations"?

Right, so Kavanaugh can't be prosecuted for this.

I take it you don't think that ends the matter, do you?

Because assuming that he cannot be prosecuted for his alleged crime, if it turns out to be true, he can and obviously should be stripped of his role as a judge of any kind and prosecuted for perjury.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:12 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I bolded the relevant part so no one misses it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orland...#cite_note-123
Take 911 Conspiracy Theories elsewhere or the MODS will.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:12 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Funny how selective people are when it fits their narrative. Lets just all forget about what the accuser said about burned in memories. Lets forget all the inconsistencies involved, and just believe. Right?
So what's your theory? She's lying? Delusional? Mistaken identity?

According to experts, false rape accusations are the exception. (2-10%) According to the same experts, there are common motivations -- revenge, divorce/custody battle, monetary shakedown. These motivations do not appear to be in play here, making it even more unlikely that she's lying. And there's no evidence that she's delusional.

If I were on the jury for a criminal trial, the facts are such that I couldn't even come close to convicting. Yet I'm confident that he did the things she said he did.

And on the other hand, it's obvious that Kavanaugh is a weasel and a liar. I suspect the 2-10% number goes WAY down then the accused is an obvious weasel/liar.

A random, tangential observation... I was bleakly amused by Kavenaugh's "I was too busy being the best student, captain of team" etc. As if Big Man on Campus is actually a valid alibi, as opposed to a potential enabling factor.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:17 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
So what's your theory? She's lying? Delusional? Mistaken identity?
As someone in a similar position as the person you replied to, let me share my answer.

I have no theory. She has not presented enough to even warrant the consideration of a theory.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:21 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As someone in a similar position as the person you replied to, let me share my answer.

I have no theory. She has not presented enough to even warrant the consideration of a theory.
Never mind "theory". If you can't formulate a plausible alternate scenario, that speaks poorly for the skeptical position you're taking.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:23 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Never mind "theory". If you can't formulate a plausible alternate scenario, that speaks poorly for the skeptical position you're taking.
As a skeptic, it isn't my job to formulate alternative scenarios. It is on the person making the claim to substantiate theirs.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:24 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As a skeptic, it isn't my job to formulate alternative scenarios. It is on the person making the claim to substantiate theirs.
Evasive bs that precludes Occam.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:26 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Evasive bs that precludes Occam.
There are not competing hypotheses to compare.

ETA: and it must still be supported by evidence to be a hypothesis to be evaluated by Occam's razor. Her story is not there yet.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 30th September 2018 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:30 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Take 911 Conspiracy Theories elsewhere or the MODS will.

Mateen posted the below on Facebook the morning before the nightclub shooting. Some here on the international skeptics forums would call it an afterthought…
Quote:
“You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance,” Mateen posted early Sunday morning


I'm not sure why you mentioned "9/11 conspiracy theories", but I'm glad you brought them up because of the similarities.

What did Cheney really mean when he said stand down?
What did Kavanaugh really mean when he said boofing?
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:33 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I know. But are they really not able to act independently of Trump's orders?

Let's say they go and interview Person A on the list and they say, "Person X has told me that they witnessed everything\" or for the sake of complete impartiality "Person X has told me that Dr Ford made up the whole thing", but Person X is not on the list, does this mean that the FBI cannot interview them?

Or let's say that a pile of evidence mounts up and it is damning, at least of one person's story, but it will take a few weeks to leaf through it. Now, I can understand if the Senate says that they are going to take the vote anyway, but I cannot understand the idea that the FBI must suspend their investigation because it went longer than a week. That would be insane!
Two things you might be getting conflated:

1: This is just a background check sort of investigation, not a criminal investigation. The sorts of crimes claimed by Ford would not normally be investigated by the FBI anyway, because they would not be federal crimes. If they find evidence of criminal activity, they might be able to continue investigating that - at least if the criminal activity is something that would be a federal crime. Otherwise, it is just find out what you can during the time you have, to see if there is anything to suggest we should hire someone else.

2: The news reports said that the investigation would not look into allegations made by Julie Swetnick. So if someone who they interviewed with regards to the investigation into Ford's allegations says something in regard to Ford's allegation, they can follow through on that. They just could not look into Swetnick's allegations, or any of other more anonymous stories circulating out there (one story of a rape on a boat, another of an assault at a restaurant)(At least, that was my understanding.)

2b: The President seems to have retracted the restriction against investigating Swetnick's claims anyway.

Last edited by crescent; 30th September 2018 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:34 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Okay, to summarize
1) you do NOT think that he was "completely honest" during questioning, and
2) you do not care that a supreme court justice is not completely honest during testimony
When I said mostly, what I had in mind was when he answered that he did not believe he drank excessively when asked by a senator. I'm not 100% sure he was completely honest with that answer, but it would take something a lot less subjective for me to believe that he was unqualified to sit on the Supreme Court.
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Old 30th September 2018, 07:58 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
SCOTUS judges should be impartial. The very fact that he went on an unhinged rant against the Democrats and blurted out a conspiracy theory should disqualify him immediately.
Actually, he testified under oath that the Democrats were conspiring against him as revenge for Hillary's loss to Trump.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:02 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Already answered, you just ignored it.
No, you didn't.

All you said was this:
Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
When anyone says the language he used in his yearbook quotes means something different than what he says they mean.

Disagreeing with someone or thinking that they're lying isn't a conspiracy theory.

So again, what is this conspiracy theory you're alleging?
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:03 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
Actually, he testified under oath that the Democrats were conspiring against him as revenge for Hillary's loss to Trump.

In other words, Kavanaugh is guilty of having a keen grasp of the obvious.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:04 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I'm not sure why you mentioned "9/11 conspiracy theories", but I'm glad you brought them up because of the similarities.

What did Cheney really mean when he said stand down?
What did Kavanaugh really mean when he said boofing?
The question of what Cheney said is part of a larger narrative that constitutes an actual conspiracy theory.

What is the conspiracy theory behind questioning the veracity of Kavanaugh's testimony?
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:07 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In other words, Kavanaugh is guilty of having a keen grasp of the obvious.
Unless he has some proof of this, he was stating as fact things that he merely suspected. Under oath.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:08 AM   #389
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Ironic that the forum conservatives are accusing liberals of fomenting conspiracy theories about Kavanaugh (without being able to articulate what exactly those conspiracy theories are), and meanwhile this:

Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
Actually, he testified under oath that the Democrats were conspiring against him as revenge for Hillary's loss to Trump.
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In other words, Kavanaugh is guilty of having a keen grasp of the obvious.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:37 AM   #390
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Quote:
Sen. Feinstein — who is more to blame for this three-ring-fecal-festival than any other actor — began her questioning of Kavanaugh by raising an allegation that he ran a rape gang. He responded angrily. And now she’s offended by the partisanship? Please.

-- Senator Orrin Hatch (Sept 30, 2018)

"Three-ring-fecal-festival."

Yep, well put!
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:41 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Three-ring-fecal-festival."

Yep, well put!
Yes it was. And it started with Trump turd nominating another turd in Kavanaugh
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:42 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Three-ring-fecal-festival."

Yep, well put!
A term he no doubt cribbed from Kavanaugh’s yearbook.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:45 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Three-ring-fecal-festival."

Yep, well put!
Ah, yes, her scathing question:
Quote:
Judge Kavanaugh, it’s my understanding that you have denied the allegations by Dr. Ford, Ms. Ramirez and Ms. Swetnick. Is that correct?
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:47 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
you are evading the question.
If it can be shown that Kavanaugh lied in front of the Committee, would that disqualify him because of perjury?

Or is this a special case where it depends a lot on the topic, the severity, the number of false claims?
Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Yes, if it's an actual lie and not something that he forgot or misremembered.
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Do you believe Kavanaugh's clear and emphatic statements under oath that he never suffered any sort of memory impairment at all as a result of excessive alcohol consumption while in high school?
Was he clear on that? I have the impression he was quite evasive. But I haven't checked a transcript.

I believe he knows he's had blackouts and just wanted to dodge the question.

Here is the series of questions Rachel Mitchell asked Kavanaugh on that topic during the hearing (shortly before her assistance seemed to become unwelcome by the GOP members). From the WaPo transcript of the proceedings.
Quote:
MITCHELL: When you talked to Fox News the other night, you said that there were times in high school when people might have had too many beers on occasion. Does that include you?

KAVANAUGH: Sure.

MITCHELL: OK. Have you ever passed out from drinking?

KAVANAUGH: I — passed out would be — no, but I’ve gone to sleep, but — but I’ve never blacked out. That’s the — that’s the — the allegation, and that — that — that’s wrong.

MITCHELL: So let’s talk about your time in high school. In high school, after drinking, did you ever wake up in a different location than you remembered passing out or going to sleep?

KAVANAUGH: No, no.

MITCHELL: Did you ever wake up with your clothes in a different condition, or fewer clothes on than you remembered when you went to sleep or passed out?

KAVANAUGH: No, no.

MITCHELL: Did you ever tell — did anyone ever tell you about something that happened in your presence that you didn’t remember during a time that you had been drinking?

KAVANAUGH: No, the — the — we drank beer, and you know, so — so did, I think, the vast majority of — of people our age at the time. But in any event, we drank beer, and — and still do. So whatever, you know.

MITCHELL: During the time in high school when you would be drinking, did anyone ever tell you about something that you did not remember?

KAVANAUGH: No.

These denials seem to be pretty unequivocal to me. Not evasion.

Never passed out. Never blacked out, Never had any episodes where he didn't remember something from while he had been drinking.

Just some beers with the boys.

It would have been helpful if Mitchell had been permitted to question him in greater depth, but somehow that didn't seem to happen.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:48 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Three-ring-fecal-festival."

Yep, well put!
Not so fast. The one fact-checkable thing that Hatch said is a gross misrepresentation of Feinstein's questioning of Kavanaugh.

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Old 30th September 2018, 08:52 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Again, the white house needs to limit the scope of the investigation because Kavanaugh was such a transparent liar. If they let the FBI look into his claims about his drinking at the time or what "boofing, ralph and devil's triangle" meant, he's going to get referred for prosecution for perjury.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:54 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Okay, to summarize
1) you do NOT think that he was "completely honest" during questioning, and
2) you do not care that a supreme court justice is not completely honest during testimony
No one has advertised his intention to be a partisan hack on the court more.
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Old 30th September 2018, 08:56 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Not so fast. The one fact-checkable thing that Hatch said is a gross misrepresentation of Feinstein's questioning of Kavanaugh.

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What a pathetic whiney little bitch. ...I'm talking Kavanaugh not Feinstein. Cowardly wimp. No wonder Trump likes him. He has the backbone of a jelly fish. Now I really don't want him.
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Old 30th September 2018, 09:02 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Saw this on twitter earlier regarding statute of limitations and Kavanaugh.

Thanks for that. It clears up some confusion. I had seen pretty authoritative sounding statements that said the statute of limitations had expired, but other statements that it had not, and my own reading of Maryland law suggested that it had not. Apparently, the laws have changed since 1982, so current law is not the relevant law to apply.


So, there isn't anything that Kavanaugh, Judge, or an assaulter to be named later need fear in terms of criminal prosecution.
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Old 30th September 2018, 09:31 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Saw this on twitter earlier regarding statute of limitations and Kavanaugh.
You know when you bring up the statue of limitations it doesn't exactly exude confidence in Kavanaugh's innocence.
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