ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 11th October 2018, 06:44 AM   #681
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Apparently, Melania's the most bullied person on Earth. Poor lass.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 08:08 AM   #682
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,496
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I thought that title went to Brett Kavanaugh.

But seriously, she must be extremely tone-deaf. Every once in a while I feel some sympathy for her and think "She may actually dislike Trump privately". But then she does some incredibly stupid things that remind me that she's a Trumpkin through and through.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 08:12 AM   #683
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,496
Not sure how much credibility to give to this, but its quite funny if its true....

From: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8578486.html
Donald Trump has reportedly tried to fire John Kelly, but failed because the White House chief of staff “just ignores him”.
...
“I think the president just doesn’t know who to call to fire him,” the administration official told New York. “Normally if the president wanted to fire somebody, he would call Kelly to do it. But there’s nobody else to call.”
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:06 AM   #684
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,732
More on where we are:
Quote:
Republicans in this country don’t even bother to pretend anymore that they’re interested in justice and playing by the rules. They have declared war on women, on workers, on people of color, on immigrants, on the poor and dispossessed, on organized labor. They have gone to war against everything that isn’t white and male and wealthy.

All pretense is gone. Remember fairness? Gone. Comity? Gone. Compromise? Gone. The rule of law? Gone. Facts? Gone. Respect for others? Gone. Gone. Decency? Gone. Agreed upon democratic norms? Gone. All men are created equal? Gone.
https://www.salon.com/2018/10/10/tru...ness-as-usual/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:11 AM   #685
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yeah I saw that a few minutes ago and stopped reading at that paragraph. "Declared war on women"? Yeah, that sounds completely like impartial reporting.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:22 AM   #686
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I like how socialism, in and of itself, is considered dangerous.
Socialism is the new communism. The GOP needs boogeymen.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:28 AM   #687
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 83,396
Mod Warning Derail about Soros etc. moved to AAH. Feel free to start a thread about that topic if you want and copy posts from AAHbut do not continue to derail this thread.
Posted By:Darat
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:34 AM   #688
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,732
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah I saw that a few minutes ago and stopped reading at that paragraph. "Declared war on women"? Yeah, that sounds completely like impartial reporting.
It's a column, not a news article, by am astute West Point grad, son and grandson of Army officers who is also a direct descendant of Thomas Jefferson. He has as much right to his opinion as, say, D. Trump.

And he makes his case pretty effectively. Keep reading.

(And some would consider the cutbacks on support for Planned Parenthood, the increasing restrictions on abortion rights, the Repubs promise to overturn Roe v. Wade, and the pubic disparagement of women who report assaults as elements of a war on women's rights.)

Last edited by Bob001; 11th October 2018 at 10:38 AM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:44 AM   #689
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,141
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Mod Warning Derail about Soros etc. moved to AAH. Feel free to start a thread about that topic if you want and copy posts from AAHbut do not continue to derail this thread.
Posted By:Darat
We are never going to get to part 11 at this rate
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 10:47 AM   #690
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's a column, not a news article, by am astute West Point grad, son and grandson of Army officers who is also a direct descendant of Thomas Jefferson. He has as much right to his opinion as, say, D. Trump.
A right to her opinion, yes. But that opinion isn't worth more than anyone else's, hence why I'm not interested in reading further in this case.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:02 AM   #691
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,732
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A right to her opinion, yes. But that opinion isn't worth more than anyone else's, hence why I'm not interested in reading further in this case.
He's a he.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:07 AM   #692
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,732
Trump adopted the Amway model:
Quote:
Amway padded the pocketbooks of the DeVos family at the expense of its workers. But it was not simply the DeVoses who got rich off this type of business. President Trump did, too. Indeed, the bigger threat to American workers today may not just be these businesses that have used economic anxieties and false promises of prosperity to undermine worker benefits, but the fact that this type of businessman is now our president.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...?noredirect=on
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:11 AM   #693
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18,935
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Socialism is the new communism. The GOP needs boogeymen.
It's the same boogeyman. The Republicans are fine with sharing the American dream aka the American mirage, but actually sharing would be the work of the devil. They are all for Jesus, just not most of his teachings.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:12 AM   #694
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He's a he.
Well, it's all fluid nowadays, anyway.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:14 AM   #695
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18,935
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Who the he'll is bullying Melania? I didn't think the White house staff was allowed to knock down the first lady and steal her lunch money. Maybe the Secret Service isnt doing its job?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #696
BrooklynBaby
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Who the he'll is bullying Melania? I didn't think the White house staff was allowed to knock down the first lady and steal her lunch money. Maybe the Secret Service isnt doing its job?
She was in Africa last week.
BrooklynBaby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:28 AM   #697
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,225
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, I won't deny that posting old nudes and then declaring that she can't possibly be first lady material is nonsense, but still, no. Not even close.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:34 AM   #698
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,141
Looking up the definition and classification of bullying, there are elements of power imbalance. But Republicansoften reject notions of power I'm balance (sexual harassment, cultural appropriation).
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #699
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah I saw that a few minutes ago and stopped reading at that paragraph. "Declared war on women"? Yeah, that sounds completely like impartial reporting.
Depends on how you define 'war on women'. Some of us know that to mean making birth control hard to get, abortion impossible even to save the life of the woman, and equal rights for women: forget it.

Then there are the attempts to take back any gains we've made stopping sexual harassment and assaults. Trump's already making fun of #metoo, saying it meant he couldn't say what he wanted to.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 11th October 2018 at 11:50 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:46 AM   #700
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,141
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Depends on how you define 'war on women'. Some of us know that to mean making birth control hard to get, abortion impossible even to save the life of the woman, and equal rights for women: forget it.
Then maybe women shouldn't be on the wrong side of history.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:46 AM   #701
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
The failing Trump rallies...
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:47 AM   #702
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, I won't deny that posting old nudes and then declaring that she can't possibly be first lady material is nonsense, but still, no. Not even close.
We didn't like her coat.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:50 AM   #703
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Even IF we'd agree that some of that was bullying... she wouldn't be the most bullied person on Earth.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:51 AM   #704
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
According to NPR this morning, he's switched to calling in again. They still air his propaganda through that means.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:52 AM   #705
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Even IF we'd agree that some of that was bullying... she wouldn't be the most bullied person on Earth.
Who are you addressing? Pretty sure only the choir is here at the moment.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:54 AM   #706
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who are you addressing? Pretty sure only the choir is here at the moment.
Gee, I should shut up, then.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 11:56 AM   #707
The Great Zaganza
Philosopher
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,264
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
This belongs in the "Past Peak Trump" thread.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 01:17 PM   #708
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Gee, I should shut up, then.
Or maybe make it clear you aren't answering the post above yours.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 01:18 PM   #709
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,479
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
This belongs in the "Past Peak Trump" thread.
Dunno, he did work around it. If they quit taking his calls or drop the shows that still fawn all over him like Pirro and Hannity then maybe.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 01:19 PM   #710
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
More on where we are:

Quote:
Quote:
Republicans in this country don’t even bother to pretend anymore that they’re interested in justice and playing by the rules. They have declared war on women, on workers, on people of color, on immigrants, on the poor and dispossessed, on organized labor. They have gone to war against everything that isn’t white and male and wealthy.

All pretense is gone. Remember fairness? Gone. Comity? Gone. Compromise? Gone. The rule of law? Gone. Facts? Gone. Respect for others? Gone. Gone. Decency? Gone. Agreed upon democratic norms? Gone. All men are created equal? Gone.
https://www.salon.com/2018/10/10/tru...ness-as-usual/
Well, yeah, but that's only in response to the Dems' War on Christmas.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 01:51 PM   #711
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or maybe make it clear you aren't answering the post above yours.
I was addressing the post above mine. I was adding to your post.

Sheesh, what the hell's your problem?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 01:57 PM   #712
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,427
Well, that press conference with Kanye West was... Interesting..
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:02 PM   #713
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,768
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Looking up the definition and classification of bullying, there are elements of power imbalance.
I think status imbalance is more general. Bullying advertises the superior status of the bully vis-a-vis the victim.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:03 PM   #714
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,768
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Well, that press conference with Kanye West was... Interesting..
Such are the times we're living in.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:04 PM   #715
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 83,396
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Who the he'll is bullying Melania? I didn't think the White house staff was allowed to knock down the first lady and steal her lunch money. Maybe the Secret Service isnt doing its job?
Presumably Trump, remember when annoyed with a wife he will physically assault her.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:18 PM   #716
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,493
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I think status imbalance is more general. Bullying advertises the superior status of the bully vis-a-vis the victim.
Isn't it usually a sign of insecurity?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:19 PM   #717
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 17,476
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then maybe women shouldn't be on the wrong side of history.
What's that? the side that gives them equality?
Seems they are on the wrong side, they are losing.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:24 PM   #718
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,965
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You dress like Belloq one time...
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:28 PM   #719
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 17,476
Trump Tweets

"Moments ago, President Trump signed the Music Modernization Act, which will close loopholes in our digital royalty laws to ensure that songwriters, artists, producers, and providers receive fair payment for the licensing of music."


Funny that at his rallies, Trump has no problem using the music of The Rolling Stones, Elton John, R.E.M., Queen, Aerosmith, and others without permission.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 11th October 2018 at 02:29 PM.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2018, 02:30 PM   #720
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,768
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And he makes his case pretty effectively. Keep reading.
It's worth reading, but "declared war on" is as hackneyed as "on steroids" and should be consigned to the same bin. Hostility towards, for instance, still has rhetorical life in it.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:26 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.