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Old 30th September 2018, 10:02 AM   #81
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Whatever. It might give you teh feelztm because it's oh so tolerant but I find it disgusting. It's sick. In a country where little girls get blown up at pop concerts by Islamic terrorists, you shouldn't dare give the same salutes IS does. You people have no loyalty to your own children and displaced loyalty to people who hate you and I find it disgusting.

What are you blathering on about?

The police officers in that photo *certainly* didn't think that anyone was giving an IS salute.

I don't know about the person posing with them, but it is quite possible that he wasn't giving such a salute either.

Next you will be saying that the OK sign is always a white power sign - which is what some in 4chan would like people to believe

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/in...-hand-gesture/

Quote:
The “OK” hand gesture hoax originated in February 2017 when an anonymous 4channer announced “Operation O-KKK,” telling other members that “we must flood Twitter and other social media websites…claiming that the OK hand sign is a symbol of white supremacy.” The user even provided a helpful graphic showing how the letters WP (for “white power”) could be traced within an “OK” gesture. The originator and others also suggested useful hashtags to help spread the hoax, such as #PowerHandPrivilege and #NotOkay. “Leftists have dug so deep down into their lunacy,” wrote the poster, “We must force [them] to dig more, until the rest of society ain’t going anywhere near that s***.”
It is now used for that reason, but mostly not.




Originally Posted by Her Dark Star View Post
At work at the moment, so can't cover all the points. However to highlight the accuracy of your information: that photo is not of Talha Asmal and the one finger salute has a long history in multiple cultures, including Rastafarianism, and just refers to One God. It's the equivalent of saying all Christians are KKK members because they've both used a cross and elevates this thread to Poe level status.

Virtually everything you've posted on this subject is sensationalist tripe, deliberately misrepresenting situations and facts. There aren't any 'no-go' areas in the UK. There are problems with the government and police of course, but probably best to discuss individual aspects rather than hyperbolic grand statements.

I will try to answer your posts in more detail when I get home, but for a little context, I'm British born, have lived here my whole life in numerous different parts of the country, I'm a former police officer and also spent almost a decade working in the Home Office on Public order and Counter-terrorism issues. In an odd co-incidence I also knew one of the officers in that photo. While of course I can only offer my opinion for the most part, I do have some relevant experience both of living in the UK and being involved with public order and policing, so I hope that I can help you understand the matter a bit better. Also for reference, in Britain relying on the Mail or Daily Star for information has about the same credibility as InfoWars.
Thank you

A proper metaphorical kicking. Well worth delurking to deliver.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:03 AM   #82
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
You owe me a new pair of pants as I've just pissed myself laughing.
This is so not offensive.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:05 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
God these jokes are bad.
You certainly need to work on your material. You can't do observational comedy separated by several thousand miles of ocean.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:10 AM   #84
Baylor
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Keep making excuses for the incompetence of your police.

ISIS has a new hand sign — and it means far more than ‘We’re #1’

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-...r-more-we-re-1

Sydney woman gives Isis salute after guilty verdict

Outside Sydney’s Downing Centre local court on Friday, Elzahed gave the Isis one-finger salute while her friend called journalists “cockroaches”


https://www.theguardian.com/australi...guilty-verdict

ISIS Sends a Message

The curious thing was not the head Bary held in his left hand -- however ghoulish the trophy -- but the gesture he made with his right. For followers of ISIS, a single raised index finger has become a sign of their cause, and it is increasingly common in photographs of militants.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...-sends-message
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:15 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Mmmm, Sebastian Vettel, well know ISIS supporter.

http://www.discoverrisk.co.uk/images/Sebastian%20V.bmp
Not to mention that other well-known ISIS sympathiser, Alan Shearer.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:18 AM   #86
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Keep making excuses for the incompetence of your police.

ISIS has a new hand sign — and it means far more than ‘We’re #1’

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-...r-more-we-re-1

Sydney woman gives Isis salute after guilty verdict

Outside Sydney’s Downing Centre local court on Friday, Elzahed gave the Isis one-finger salute while her friend called journalists “cockroaches”


https://www.theguardian.com/australi...guilty-verdict

ISIS Sends a Message

The curious thing was not the head Bary held in his left hand -- however ghoulish the trophy -- but the gesture he made with his right. For followers of ISIS, a single raised index finger has become a sign of their cause, and it is increasingly common in photographs of militants.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...-sends-message
Er. My point was made rather more succinctly by Information Analyst:

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Or maybe because most people - including coppers - don't spend all day wanking themselves into a frenzy over ISIS videos, they're unaware of the meaning that you insist the gesture can only have?
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:20 AM   #87
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It's so sweet. someone caring about us Europeans.

gifcussions have never impressed me much.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:25 AM   #88
jimbob
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not to mention that other well-known ISIS sympathiser, Alan Shearer.
And Bob Marley:

https://allthatsinteresting.com/bob-marley-photos#4
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:40 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You want to come across as an authority then you showed you are not. Daily Mail is not analogous to infowars. Nor did I only cite what you think are "sensationalist" media. Guardian and the Times, I'm sure you think are "credible" both stating there are effectively no-go zones.
The mail is a mainstream tabloid, yes. However it has virtually no credibility and is famous for it's poor reporting, sensationalist headlines with articles that fail to back them up and extreme bias. While it's stature is different to infowars it's reliability is much the same.
Guardian and Times are slightly better, but aren't above using whatever headline will grab attention either, that's the nature of newspapers. You'll also note though that they are both only reporting what someone has said, they have not investigated the claim or stated that it is correct. It is true that the person said it, but the claim is not verified.

I'm definitely not an authority on anything and you shouldn't take anything I say as gospel of course. However I have lived in the country you are discussing my entire life (I'm over 40 unfortunately) and have spent most of my career involved in the kind of things you're posting about. I'm a little out of touch now, but I'm still living here every day, I have have friends are still in the police and related organisations and of course know lots more people who live here who aren't involved in the police or government at all. But no one, Police or not, would recognize the country you're describing as being even remotely true.
I don't expect you take my word on anything, it is just my own view, but you may wish to lend some weight to the fact that all of the people who have responded on the thread so far who list themselves as living in the UK seem to be in agreement that your posts do not reflect the reality we experience every day here.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:04 AM   #90
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Baylor you live in Spokane.

And this is the International Skeptics Forum.

Be careful.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:09 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Her Dark Star View Post
The mail is a mainstream tabloid, yes. However it has virtually no credibility and is famous for it's poor reporting, sensationalist headlines with articles that fail to back them up and extreme bias. While it's stature is different to infowars it's reliability is much the same.
Guardian and Times are slightly better, but aren't above using whatever headline will grab attention either, that's the nature of newspapers. You'll also note though that they are both only reporting what someone has said, they have not investigated the claim or stated that it is correct. It is true that the person said it, but the claim is not verified.

I'm definitely not an authority on anything and you shouldn't take anything I say as gospel of course. However I have lived in the country you are discussing my entire life (I'm over 40 unfortunately) and have spent most of my career involved in the kind of things you're posting about. I'm a little out of touch now, but I'm still living here every day, I have have friends are still in the police and related organisations and of course know lots more people who live here who aren't involved in the police or government at all. But no one, Police or not, would recognize the country you're describing as being even remotely true.
I don't expect you take my word on anything, it is just my own view, but you may wish to lend some weight to the fact that all of the people who have responded on the thread so far who list themselves as living in the UK seem to be in agreement that your posts do not reflect the reality we experience every day here.
You don't recognize the country (why are you using US spelling) because you don't live in the occupied territory formerly known as the UK. Muslims would very much recognize what I'm describing. I believe the chief inspector of constabulary over you. The video evidence indicates the Police Officer would not engage in and run from confrontations with Muslim gangs.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:11 AM   #92
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Baylor you live in Spokane.

And this is the International Skeptics Forum.

Be careful.
Most pathetic threat ever.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:16 AM   #93
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threat?

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Old 30th September 2018, 11:17 AM   #94
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You don't recognize the country (why are you using US spelling) because you don't live in the occupied territory formerly known as the UK. Muslims would very much recognize what I'm describing. I believe the chief inspector of constabulary over you. The video evidence indicates the Police Officer would not engage in and run from confrontations with Muslim gangs.
MEH. And judging by your posting style you're not originally from Spokane or the US ...
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:19 AM   #95
Baylor
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I'm so not put off by this.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:20 AM   #96
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Common rookie mistake for folks commenting on LE behavior/policy.

Street cops never make the operational policies in a LEA - politicians and LE administrators make the basic decisions on where the street bulls go on a given shift and what to do when they get there. They are also the people who set enforcement policy priority rules and if TPTB want to send every blue-suit on a shift to a specific patrol area they going to do it.

Your observation that the situations detailed in your links are based on officer cowardice isn't valid for those reasons alone.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:23 AM   #97
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I have to go with Baylor on this one. I visited London, and the no go signs were everywhere. I was shot and stabbed even by muslims in a park! They had to ship my body back to the states..

No wait. Nothing like that happened. There are no 'no go' locations in London, The Police are not cowards, and I found London to be a fairly pleasant city to visit and stay in. We walked and took the tube everywhere. Again, no issues. At all.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:26 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You don't recognize the country (why are you using US spelling) because you don't live in the occupied territory formerly known as the UK. Muslims would very much recognize what I'm describing. I believe the chief inspector of constabulary over you. The video evidence indicates the Police Officer would not engage in and run from confrontations with Muslim gangs.
Wut?


That is barking.

And Venom wasn't making a threat, as much as a comment on the validity of your interpretation of very dubious and slanted media.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:26 AM   #99
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I have to go with Baylor on this one. I visited London, and the no go signs were everywhere. I was shot and stabbed even by muslims in a park! They had to ship my body back to the states..

No wait. Nothing like that happened. There are no 'no go' locations in London, The Police are not cowards, and I found London to be a fairly pleasant city to visit and stay in. We walked and took the tube everywhere. Again, no issues. At all.

Good for you. Others haven't been so lucky. That's why there are warning everywhere.

https://i.imgur.com/2IdiXFN.jpg
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:30 AM   #100
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Spray painted the leaf on the 'W', did they?
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:35 AM   #101
Baylor
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yada yada yada

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/684083...evor-kavanagh/
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:46 AM   #102
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
That's just wrong. Katie Price is getting married again?!!
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:48 AM   #103
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I have to go with Baylor on this one. I visited London, and the no go signs were everywhere. I was shot and stabbed even by muslims in a park! They had to ship my body back to the states..

No wait. Nothing like that happened. There are no 'no go' locations in London, The Police are not cowards, and I found London to be a fairly pleasant city to visit and stay in. We walked and took the tube everywhere. Again, no issues. At all.
Now that is one of the least surprising posts in this thread.

Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Common rookie mistake for folks commenting on LE behavior/policy.

Street cops never make the operational policies in a LEA - politicians and LE administrators make the basic decisions on where the street bulls go on a given shift and what to do when they get there. They are also the people who set enforcement policy priority rules and if TPTB want to send every blue-suit on a shift to a specific patrol area they going to do it.

Your observation that the situations detailed in your links are based on officer cowardice isn't valid for those reasons alone.
In this case, at least one of the videos of "officer cowardice" actually showed the prelude to the knife-wielder getting tasered. Baylor seems to want to have it both ways. UK cops are under-equipped so run away because that is cowardly, and they are cowards because the police tend to go for large numbers of officers to deal with a single knife-wielding person.

Note
https://youtu.be/YXHorIrLFIc?t=25s

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


As an aside, last year, I went into Manchester one day, and there happened to be an EDL march and I saw the police escorting them back to Piccadilly station.

There were about a dozen of them, and about twice as many police surrounding them. It makes perfect sense if your goal is public order, to ensure that it's obvious that trying something is not going to get anywhere.
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:56 AM   #104
Her Dark Star
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You don't recognize the country (why are you using US spelling) because you don't live in the occupied territory formerly known as the UK. Muslims would very much recognize what I'm describing. I believe the chief inspector of constabulary over you. The video evidence indicates the Police Officer would not engage in and run from confrontations with Muslim gangs.
I'm at work and it defaults to US Spell check lol.
The 'video evidence' has been cherry picked and in some cases edited. You have no idea what the situation is, what the motivations are, what the officers orders are or who the other people in the video are. In the first clip the officers aren't running, you can see officers in riot gear in the background all making their way in the same direction. The people in the centre are PCSO's (support, not sworn officers) apparently escorting a civvie. Who knows what is going on in that situation? When was it taken? Where? By whom? Without further information you can't say what is happening, let alone draw any conclusions from it.

Also cherry picking your Senior Officer quote, you can easily find more quotes from other officers that tell a completely different story. One source is a data point, not a conclusion. For reference there are around 1600 officers of Chief Inspector rank, most of whom would be unlikely to agree with the article you quoted. I'm sure that they would have other complaints of course :-)

Are the police underfunded and understaffed? Yes. Are there incidents in which police have not behaved appropriately? Of course. Is the country overwhelmed by shady organisations controlling entire districts or cities? Not even slightly true. Unless you include the Tory Party I guess
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:58 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Good for you. Others haven't been so lucky. That's why there are warning everywhere.

https://i.imgur.com/2IdiXFN.jpg
This has.. what do to with Muslims? It's a Large city, with a high tourist population. In ANY large city, thieves and pickpockets are a problem.

Again, there are no 'no go' areas in London.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:03 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
That someone is posting about occupied territory on what used to be sovereign UK soil is evidence that the police of the UK have handed over their authority of a foreign people.

No, it’s just evidence that you are posting paranoid nonsense.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:03 PM   #107
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Her Dark Star View Post
I'm at work and it defaults to US Spell check lol.
The 'video evidence' has been cherry picked and in some cases edited. You have no idea what the situation is, what the motivations are, what the officers orders are or who the other people in the video are. In the first clip the officers aren't running, you can see officers in riot gear in the background all making their way in the same direction. The people in the centre are PCSO's (support, not sworn officers) apparently escorting a civvie. Who knows what is going on in that situation? When was it taken? Where? By whom? Without further information you can't say what is happening, let alone draw any conclusions from it.

Also cherry picking your Senior Officer quote, you can easily find more quotes from other officers that tell a completely different story. One source is a data point, not a conclusion. For reference there are around 1600 officers of Chief Inspector rank, most of whom would be unlikely to agree with the article you quoted. I'm sure that they would have other complaints of course :-)

Are the police underfunded and understaffed? Yes. Are there incidents in which police have not behaved appropriately? Of course. Is the country overwhelmed by shady organisations controlling entire districts or cities? Not even slightly true. Unless you include the Tory Party I guess
I couldn't make out the situation, but to me it looked as though they were escorting some marchers - the quality of the video was such that I would have to take it on trust that Muslims were involved.



I know that Baylor doesn't have a high opinion of British police, but I am pretty sure that even the stupidest police officer knows that you don't run away backwards.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:04 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
In what way was it a victory for him to be arrested and for there to be no casualties, and for the police to have used the minimal force required to arrest him?

I'd rather the whole social structure was such that the police thought it worthwhile completely outnumbering the knife-wielding criminal than an outcome where lethal force was used when it obviously wasn't needed.
I was just going to reply with "containment and no killing, is better than killing", you said it better than me.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:06 PM   #109
jimbob
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I was just going to reply with "containment and no killing, is better than killing", you said it better than me.
Personally, I liked:

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
"Yeah, blood, it was well wicked. They pepper sprayed me and TASERed me, and then I woke up in the police van and realised I'd pissed myself, innit?"
"Aw, respect, bruv! I am so looking forward to doing something like that, and ending up piss-soaked in the back of a police van. When iz it you getting out the Scrubs, spar?"
"About five years."
"Safe."

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Old 30th September 2018, 12:15 PM   #110
Manger Douse
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Good for you. Others haven't been so lucky. That's why there are warning everywhere.

https://i.imgur.com/2IdiXFN.jpg
It that's an original Bansky, it says something about London's safety that it's not been chiseled up and nicked

Last edited by Manger Douse; 30th September 2018 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:17 PM   #111
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Her Dark Star View Post
I'm at work and it defaults to US Spell check lol.
The 'video evidence' has been cherry picked and in some cases edited. You have no idea what the situation is, what the motivations are, what the officers orders are or who the other people in the video are. In the first clip the officers aren't running, you can see officers in riot gear in the background all making their way in the same direction. The people in the centre are PCSO's (support, not sworn officers) apparently escorting a civvie. Who knows what is going on in that situation? When was it taken? Where? By whom? Without further information you can't say what is happening, let alone draw any conclusions from it.

Also cherry picking your Senior Officer quote, you can easily find more quotes from other officers that tell a completely different story. One source is a data point, not a conclusion. For reference there are around 1600 officers of Chief Inspector rank, most of whom would be unlikely to agree with the article you quoted. I'm sure that they would have other complaints of course :-)

Are the police underfunded and understaffed? Yes. Are there incidents in which police have not behaved appropriately? Of course. Is the country overwhelmed by shady organisations controlling entire districts or cities? Not even slightly true. Unless you include the Tory Party I guess
That's nice. But I still believe Winsor. I believe the Lancashire Police officer. I believe Rev Michael Nazir-Ali. I believe MP Carswell when he said large number of crimes go unreported. It's obvious parallel societies have emerged in the UK. The police aren't equipped to handle them. Since the police are unwilling and/or incompetent, these societies create their own "rules" and code of conduct from the laws and social norms of their countries of origin.

Last edited by Baylor; 30th September 2018 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:19 PM   #112
p0lka
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Like men, they can tell those breaking rules to get the **** out. Too bad they're cowards though.
You seem to be under the impression that the police in the UK should be treating things like an "us v them and it's a warzone!" mentality?
If they do not then they are cowards.

That is not how the British police work.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:26 PM   #113
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
This has.. what do to with Muslims? It's a Large city, with a high tourist population. In ANY large city, thieves and pickpockets are a problem.

Again, there are no 'no go' areas in London.
And there were no rape gangs in Rotherham.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:27 PM   #114
Baylor
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
You seem to be under the impression that the police in the UK should be treating things like an "us v them and it's a warzone!" mentality?
If they do not then they are cowards.

That is not how the British police work.
And that's why they suck.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:28 PM   #115
Garrison
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
You seem to be under the impression that the police in the UK should be treating things like an "us v them and it's a warzone!" mentality?
If they do not then they are cowards.

That is not how the British police work.
But it appears to be how too many police in the US work, remember if you aren't shooting unarmed black people you aren't doing proper policing...
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:29 PM   #116
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
But it appears to be how too many police in the US work, remember if you aren't shooting unarmed black people you aren't doing proper policing...
Yes but blacks are violent
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http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:29 PM   #117
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
And there were no rape gangs in Rotherham.
Have you actually been to London?
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:32 PM   #118
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
But it appears to be how too many police in the US work, remember if you aren't shooting unarmed black people you aren't doing proper policing...
This is so dumb.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:32 PM   #119
p0lka
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Have you actually been to London?
I don't think they have been to the UK, or they are a daily mail reader.
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Old 30th September 2018, 12:33 PM   #120
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I don't think they have been to the UK, or they are a daily mail reader.
Or just a bigot in general.
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