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#41 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,869
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#42 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,388
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I think Republican are just miffed because they knew that Dr. Fords allegations were basically unprovable and that they would just need to calmly sit out the storm and in the end it would be alright. But then Der Groppenfuhrer saw the calm Kavanaugh and didn't like it and demanded more tantrum. Sadly for Republicans, BK cranked the uppity on his lie machine to 11 and now they know his nomination is in jeopardy and it's no longer just about unproven allegations.
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#43 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,797
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I've learned that, as I had suspected since the 1991 Clarence Thomas fiasco, our last vestige of sanity in terms of a check on the other branches of government is well and truly screwed. The SCOTUS nomination and confirmation process is politically compromised. The American Experiment was fun while it lasted, I suppose.
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#44 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,354
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That's three different and conflicting things you have said there
1. She is likely to be lying. 2. She believes what she is saying (so she's not lying, just mistaken) 3. He clams are untrue (so she IS lying, or mistaken, or.....what?) You haven't really thought about this much have you? Have you been taking equivocation lessons from Brett Kavanaugh? |
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
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#45 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,355
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Zig's post is pure nonsense. Vetting and asking questions of a candidate is not 'attacking'. Its called vetting. Gorsuch was never accused of lying. Also, he never was accused of sexual misconduct and the Democrats in the Senate are not accusing Kavanaugh of that either. They are simply doing their jobs in attempting to investigate a candidate for the highest court in the land. This as opposed to the Republicans hiding documents and not investigating Kavanaugh properly.
Also Zig, the Constitutional process makes it a duty for the Senate to fully investigate a Supreme Court nominee. |
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#46 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,656
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Things I learned:
There was someone else to add to my ignore list Urban Dictionary is now a legal reference guide Bret Kavanaugh likes beer Stuff I already knew but was re-affirmed Way too many of our government procedures rely on "gentlemen's agreements" and good faith. I realize politics is the art of compromise, but there is no way a small bunch of radical lunatics should be able to crash the whole system into a free for all of power grabs and feudal kingdoms Middle and upper class whites would sooner bury their own children than take a hard look at the system so many of us have benefited from and ask the hard questions about it |
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#47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,869
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You can read a pretty good dissection from Rachel Mitchell, the investigative counsel for the judiciary committee, here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3898...sel#from_embed There's a number of serious issues with her testimony. Ford's account has been inconsistent, she has no memory of key details, nobody can corroborate even part of her account, she's been evasive, forgetful and uncooperative about recent events surrounding these allegations, and it appears that she's basically been coached by Democratic operatives. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#48 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,764
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Kavanaugh gets to fight for the seat.
Garland never got the chance. How do you know how much that seat meant for Garland? |
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#49 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,355
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I said this earlier and it bears repeating. It wasn't Ford's testimony that made me believe Kavanaugh was unfit. It was Kavanaugh's testimony. It was that pathetic, wimpy frat boy entitlement. The absurd indignance, his lack of forthrightness and temperament. Nothing about him says to me that he can be counted on to be trustworthy and impartial.
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#50 |
... and your little dog too.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,816
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#51 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,869
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You haven't really thought much about what I said, have you?
Let's suppose her claims are not true. I believe that to be the case, you may not, but let's take that as a given for the sake of argument. *IF* her claims are not true, what then? Well, then we have several different possibilities. And unsurprisingly, there is a degree of mutual exclusivity among them. She could be lying. She could believe what she said. These are mutually exclusive. If she believes it but it's not true, that too could have multiple possible causes (complete delusion, the memory of a real event that got changed over time, etc). So, did I say conflicting things? Sure, because there are conflicting possibilities. Unless you know everything, that will always be the case. Is it wrong to describe conflicting possibilities? No, that would be absurd. You really don't have any coherent objection at all. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#52 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 9,436
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I done seen Kavanaugh's towering innalect. Dood's smart.
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Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp |
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#53 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,355
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I dont think so. I see at as a classic 'he said' she said' scenario. Almost impossible to know with any confidence who is telling the truth.
Isn't it interesting that the one person who objects to an investigation is Kavanaugh. Ford took a polygraph, Kavanaugh has not. The only person who might be able to shed light on this is hiding. |
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#54 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,106
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#55 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,106
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You make it sound like trustworhty and impartial were actually related to his choice. Torture loving is a much more important requirement, but of course they lost those documents. Willing to lie to congress is of course a pluss too.
There are so many reasons he is a really poor choice for a judge to people who care about things like law and order. That is why republicans like him he really hits the fascism kick they are on well. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#56 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 19,995
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My opinion that anyone who ever went to a prep school or Ivy League college should be forbidden from holding public office has been reinforced.
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#57 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,743
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But it's not a classic 'he said, she said' scenario. Actually, Dr. Ford would have a better case if it were. As Rachel Mitchell's analysis points out, Dr. Ford named 4 other people who were present at the time of the alleged attack -- 2 of them were eye witnesses. However, all 4 people have either denied the allegations, or claimed they don't remember the incident ever happening. Worst still, Dr. Ford's high-school friend, Leland Keyser, claims she has never even met Brett Kavanaugh, and never been to a party where he was present. |
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#58 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 727
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#59 | ||
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 727
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Oh, I see now. When anyone accuses a Republican, it's a dirty Democrat attempting to smear a virtuous Republican. However, when anyone accuses a Democrat, whether the accused is Bill Clinton or Al Franken or whoever, it's a principled search for Truth and Honesty. Have I got that right?
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#60 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,516
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#61 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,516
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Lesson for the Democrats, stop worrying about overturning Roe, they are never going to admit it and you know anyone nominated off a Federalist Society list is going to be anti-abortion. Do look more closely at partisan history in a nominee's background. When there is evidence of perjury in past confirmation hearings.
And look more closely at the pro-1%, anti-99% rulings the candidate has made. He worked for Ken Starr, that history must have been full of red flags. Find better ways to counter the attack on the messenger one can expect from the GOP. Don't attack the ideology, bring up very specific rulings. |
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#62 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,938
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#63 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 727
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#64 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,938
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And, to be as fair to you as you were to me, I think this obsession with ideological purity is not helping.
Being inconsistent is not a greater sin than being wrong. All ideologies are hypocrites because an ideology cannot account for the full scale of the human condition. If our entire discourse is based on nothing but finding inconsistencies in ideologies (i.e. hypocrisy) that's all we're ever gonna do and as good as it often feels, it doesn't accomplish much on any practical level. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#65 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,355
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1. You are using Rachel Mitchell, who was appointed by the Republicans to say what they wanted her to say.
2. Anyone who knows anything about memory would be able to tell you that while a victim may be able to remember certain things vividly, from a traumatic experience they are just as likely to misremember others. 3. They did not really deny anything, just because they didn't have a memory of it. 2 of them? You mean Judge and Kavanaugh? |
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#66 |
![]() Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,083
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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#67 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,841
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#68 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 727
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#69 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,025
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'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman |
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#70 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,938
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Yeah but... cards all on the table here... for all practical purposes all of our political discourse being nothing but a long game of "You said that then, now you say this now" kind of got stale for me a long time ago.
People are gonna protect their tribes. This should not be shocking to anyone at this point. And 99 times out of a 100 "OMG this side protected Bill but attacked Ted and the other side attacked Ted but protected Bill when they both did the same thing!" just means both Bill and Ted... are just awful. We need to get out of this loop, bad. We are stuck in. Meaningful, influential people both in the leadership and in the trenches of both "sides" are going to have to sucking it up and doing what's best for the country even if it means not returning a childish jab the other side landed. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#71 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,743
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"This memorandum contains my own independent assessment of Dr. Ford’s allegations, based upon my independent review of the evidence and my nearly 25 years of experience as a career prosecutor of sex-related and other crimes in Arizona. No senator reviewed or approved this memorandum before its release, and I was not pressured in any way to write this memorandum or to write any words in this memorandum with which I do not fully agree. The words written in this memorandum are mine, and I fully stand by all of them. While I am a registered Republican, I am not a political or partisan person." -- Rachel Mitchell (Sept 30, 2018) |
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#72 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,354
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__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
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#73 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,323
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Based on what? What do you know that the rest of us don't?
Quote:
You'd agree, if only the judge had been nominated by a Democrat; that's the sad state of affairs, here. Ok but loss of details is something common in such recollections. We know this. It does put a question mark on the testimony, and we may never know the truth, but you seem far more convinced that she's wrong or lying than the evidence suggests. I'm asking you why, and this link does not satisfy that burden. |
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#74 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
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"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY "I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY |
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#75 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,323
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#76 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,967
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As an outsider my understanding is that in the US there is supposed to be a separation of powers between the executive the legislature and the judiciary. By politicising judicial appointments that separation of powers is being reduced. Other countries manage to have a non-political judiciary; there could be a non-political commission that could recommend potential candidates from whom the president could appoint (and the senate approve). Rather than having a list of candidates from a frankly political body which is what has happened in this case.
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#77 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,355
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Sure.
Never mind that she knows who butters her bread. That Kavanaugh would not be prosecuted is not the same as saying that Ford is lying or beyond reproach. No one should be reviewing this coming to the conclusion that there is enough here to seek charges. No, the question is, is there enough to question whether this candidate is suitable for a very important job. |
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#78 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,323
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#79 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,464
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#80 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 727
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