ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees

Reply
Old 2nd October 2018, 02:38 PM   #281
Thermal
Illuminator
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 4,418
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Go with that. Booferism is a guaranteed, sure-fire path for the Democrats to regain power. Make that the centerpiece of every single campaign.
Kavanagh was lying, and comically so. Why should that be so blithely dismissed as a measure of his character?
__________________
I am looking for other websites; you suck. -banned buttercake aficionado yuno44907
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 02:42 PM   #282
Thermal
Illuminator
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 4,418
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Perjury on otherwise nearly irrelevant trivialities, so they tell us not only that he's willing to commit perjury, but also that it takes almost nothing to get him to.
This. So easily explained away as youthful chatter, but as a Supreme Court nominee he lies without a second thought
__________________
I am looking for other websites; you suck. -banned buttercake aficionado yuno44907
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 02:47 PM   #283
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 40,871
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Kavanagh was lying, and comically so. Why should that be so blithely dismissed as a measure of his character?
I keep hearing this, and yet the examples people point to keep turning out to be bull ****, like the accusation that he said he never drank while under age.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 03:12 PM   #284
Thermal
Illuminator
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 4,418
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I keep hearing this, and yet the examples people point to keep turning out to be bull ****, like the accusation that he said he never drank while under age.
You made a valid point upthread, that he technically didn't claim that he was of legal age (that it was sledgehammered in implication is pretty obvious, but never mind).

But what of these absurd justifications for boofing and the Devils Triangle? Transparent lies, and as I've noted, easily explainable as youthful immaturity. But he lied. In the here and now, to the Senate. Should that be swept under the rug?
__________________
I am looking for other websites; you suck. -banned buttercake aficionado yuno44907
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 03:19 PM   #285
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,164
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's why Kennedy was so interesting. I don't mind bias, but one has to be able to look beyond that and sometimes act against their personal opinions in order to think about the larger issues.
Kennedy, although more conservative than otherwise, was the swing vote on many SC decisions. He was not an extremist. Trump and the GOP should have nominated someone more along that line than Kav who is definitely far right. He replaced one conservative with another conservative with Gorsuch. If he weren't playing to his right wing base, Trump could/should have nominated someone acceptable to both sides and avoided all this. But, Trump being Trump ...
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 03:22 PM   #286
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,980
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
We're not a nation of laws because we follow the law as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

Maybe a touch of the old Bastinado would have got the truth out of Kavanaugh?
A bit late to respond, sorry.

No, you aren't a nation of laws because you have a highly politicized justice system. I suspect the reason you have such an impaired justice system is because you are limited by your constitution. A constitution that works is one that is general. Your's is obviously much too specific if you have so vastly different readings of it that it fuels opposing ideologies. This makes the arbiters of the constitution partisan by design.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 03:58 PM   #287
fishbob
Seasonally Disaffected
 
fishbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chilly Undieville
Posts: 6,973
Another lesson for the Candidate might be to not be "communicating behind the scenes with friends to refute the claim".
Otherwise known as witness tampering or obstruction of justice.

Article
__________________
"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder.
"It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels
I hate bigots.
fishbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 04:19 PM   #288
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,282
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
Yeah, but there were only 5 people at this party. And once Dr. Ford left, Leland Keyser would have been there all alone with 3 drunks guys eager to rape someone.
Does Ford say there were only 5 people at the party, or does she actually say she only remembers five specific people? Which would leave open the possibility of there being several other people there that she doesn't remember, wouldn't it?

I am posing this as a question as I haven't read everything she's said or written about the incident and don't know the answer.

But I've watched her statement in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and what she said is:

"There were four boys I remember specifically being at the house..." and then she names three of them. That doesn't in itself suggest that there weren't other people at the party, does it?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 06:06 PM   #289
Lurch
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 563
We would be wise to keep in mind that Kav wasn't just addressing the committee senators. His most important audience was Trump. Followed by the Republican base. Any lies of ommission or inference, such as his 'suggestion' to have been legally drinking as a senior, would be aimed at the less informed, more credulous and more partisan in the audience. Who would gleefully latch onto any supporting elements of his testimony.

While we can rightly say that it would be foolish for Kav to try to fool his more discerning and oppositional interlocutors, at that time the strategy, the grand plan, was that the Ds didn't matter because the Goopers were gonna ram his confirmation through in any event. Kav had only to give them some semblance of cover to support a "yes."
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 06:22 PM   #290
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 46,057
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
We would be wise to keep in mind that Kav wasn't just addressing the committee senators. His most important audience was Trump. Followed by the Republican base. Any lies of ommission or inference, such as his 'suggestion' to have been legally drinking as a senior, would be aimed at the less informed, more credulous and more partisan in the audience. Who would gleefully latch onto any supporting elements of his testimony.

While we can rightly say that it would be foolish for Kav to try to fool his more discerning and oppositional interlocutors, at that time the strategy, the grand plan, was that the Ds didn't matter because the Goopers were gonna ram his confirmation through in any event. Kav had only to give them some semblance of cover to support a "yes."
How good a SC justice can he make if he can't even win a show hearing already rigged in his favor?
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 06:51 PM   #291
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,164
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Does Ford say there were only 5 people at the party, or does she actually say she only remembers five specific people? Which would leave open the possibility of there being several other people there that she doesn't remember, wouldn't it?

I am posing this as a question as I haven't read everything she's said or written about the incident and don't know the answer.

But I've watched her statement in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and what she said is:

"There were four boys I remember specifically being at the house..." and then she names three of them. That doesn't in itself suggest that there weren't other people at the party, does it?
Good question. I have never seen anything that says there were ONLY 5 other people at the house, only that she could remember specifically the 4 boys and Leland Keyser. That does not exclude other people being there. No luck finding anything by googling on this either.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 07:27 PM   #292
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Does Ford say there were only 5 people at the party, or does she actually say she only remembers five specific people? Which would leave open the possibility of there being several other people there that she doesn't remember, wouldn't it?

I am posing this as a question as I haven't read everything she's said or written about the incident and don't know the answer.

But I've watched her statement in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and what she said is:

"There were four boys I remember specifically being at the house..." and then she names three of them. That doesn't in itself suggest that there weren't other people at the party, does it?

"Rachel Mitchell proceeded to ask Ford about details in the letter she had originally submitted to Congress. Asked to read it again for accuracy, Ford took the opportunity to make a couple of 'corrections.' She had originally said there were four other people at the party, but she clarified to say that she could not be sure if more people weren’t there as well."

Dr. Ford: “I can’t guarantee that there weren’t a few other people there, but they are not in the purview of my memory.”

Last edited by Slings and Arrows; 2nd October 2018 at 07:33 PM.
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 08:33 PM   #293
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,282
I wonder if it's confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only five (or six) people at the party, when she doesn't seem to have ever stated this.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 08:38 PM   #294
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,347
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I wonder if it's confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only five (or six) people at the party, when she doesn't seem to have ever stated this.
There are lots of lies being spread by Republicans and the Right Wing media about Ford's testimony and all of the other women.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 08:39 PM   #295
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I wonder if it's confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only five (or six) people at the party, when she doesn't seem to have ever stated this.

In the letter she submitted to Congress she said there were 4 other people at the party.

But, the only detail she is steadfast certain about is that she only had one beer -- that part of her story is rock solid.

Last edited by Slings and Arrows; 2nd October 2018 at 08:54 PM.
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 08:58 PM   #296
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 38,966
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
The only detail she is certain about is that she only had one beer -- that part of her story is rock solid.
Squawk! Who's a pretty bird? Squawk!

You should acknowledge even paraphrases when you're quoting your dear leader. You know how Donnie Johnny feels about getting credit for things (whether he did them or not).

But I do want this to continue. Every time that horse's ass opens his mouth, scratch another 500 educated suburbanite voters from the GOP side of the ledger.

Wed: I'll listen to the evidence.
Thu: Kavanaugh needs to be confirmed.
Fri: Oops, she was credible.
Fri: Kav was incredible
Fri: Oops, Flake's got us cornered. Say, uh, I'm in favor of an investigation.
Sat: Pssst! Just investigate these four names.
Sun: Hey, I never said to limit the investigation.
Mon: After being caught out in multiple lies I've told the FBI they can investigate anyone they want, but hey, it's not me, they have to do what the Senators want.
Tue: Shameless Mississippi rally mocking Ford!

Yeah! He must be working for the DNC!
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 09:00 PM   #297
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,583
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In the letter she submitted to Congress she said there were 4 other people at the party.

But, the only detail she is steadfast certain about is that she only had one beer -- that part of her story is rock solid.
Yes, The PDJT was very clear on that point in his sickening rally speech tonight.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2018, 10:26 PM   #298
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,282
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In the letter she submitted to Congress she said there were 4 other people at the party.
Did she say there were ONLY 4 other people at the party?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 12:08 AM   #299
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Did she say there were ONLY 4 other people at the party?

No, she said ONLY 1 beer.
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:12 AM   #300
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,282
So is it confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only four other people at the party?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:15 AM   #301
The Great Zaganza
Philosopher
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,405
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So is it confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only four other people at the party?
It's their version of a "Perjury Trap".
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:23 AM   #302
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So is it confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only four other people at the party?

"The assault occurred in a suburban Maryland area home at a gathering that included me and 4 others."
-- Christine Blasey Ford (July 30, 2018)
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:26 AM   #303
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,379
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
These days, party before country is standard practice.
Is there beer at this party?

If it's a Republican party, probably bourbon.

Made in a 'dry' county.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:28 AM   #304
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,379
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"The assault occurred in a suburban Maryland area home at a gathering that included me and 4 others."
-- Christine Blasey Ford (July 30, 2018)

When you read that word, what makes you believe that it actually means "only"?
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:33 AM   #305
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,347
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
When you read that word, what makes you believe that it actually means "only"?
I'm going to Disneyland with my fiancee in a few weeks.


In Republican world, this means that I'm claiming that we're the only 2 people that will be there..........
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 01:51 AM   #306
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
When you read that word, what makes you believe that it actually means "only"?

When questioned about it, Dr. Ford admitted that she really has no idea at all how many people were there. Or where she was, how she got there, how she got home, what day it was, what year it was, and so on...

Last edited by Slings and Arrows; 3rd October 2018 at 02:07 AM.
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 03:33 AM   #307
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,379
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
When questioned about it, Dr. Ford admitted that she really has no idea at all how many people were there. Or where she was, how she got there, how she got home, what day it was, what year it was, and so on...

In what way is this response relevant to the question which I posed?
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 06:27 AM   #308
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 11,479
Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"The assault occurred in a suburban Maryland area home at a gathering that included me and 4 others."
-- Christine Blasey Ford (July 30, 2018)
I addressed this in a different thread but it bears repeating here.

Brace yourself S&A. There are some highly complex factors you need to consider, requiring your full attention. Turn off the AM radio for a moment and focus. It's possible that people arrived at the gathering after Ford left. I realize it may take a while to digest this startling possibility; take your time.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:14 AM   #309
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,689
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Assuming there were at least two dozen other qualified candidates, would you hire someone who answered questions during an interview the way he did?
That's a complex question that I don't have a simple answer to.

To which I don't have a simple answer.

The best way I can think to put it right now is, nobody sounds like Martin Sheen written by Aaron Sorkin, when they're answering questions from hostile senators farming partisan gotchas. It's not a spectacle I enjoy watching, and it's not a criteria I generally apply.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:16 AM   #310
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 13,247
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The best way I can think to put it right now is, nobody sounds like Martin Sheen written by Aaron Sorkin, when they're answering questions from hostile senators farming partisan gotchas. It's not a spectacle I enjoy watching, and it's not a criteria I generally apply.
The umpires being dirty does not make the play legal.

"The Democrats are being opportunistic and Kavanaugh is unfit" is not a paradox.
__________________
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:17 AM   #311
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 74,868
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a complex question that I don't have a simple answer to.
Sounds pretty simple to me.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:17 AM   #312
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,689
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Is that the part of his answer I was addressing?
The question was perjury. You shifted to a different point. I just wanted to make sure we agreed that there is no perjury in the text we were discussing, before moving on to other points.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:26 AM   #313
Imhotep
Muse
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 768
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You made a valid point upthread, that he technically didn't claim that he was of legal age (that it was sledgehammered in implication is pretty obvious, but never mind).

But what of these absurd justifications for boofing and the Devils Triangle? Transparent lies, and as I've noted, easily explainable as youthful immaturity. But he lied. In the here and now, to the Senate. Should that be swept under the rug?
I'd like to see a supporter of Kavanaugh address these points. Or just keep focusing on issues besides the character of the man that is up for confirmation?
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:27 AM   #314
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,689
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The umpires being dirty does not make the play legal.

"The Democrats are being opportunistic and Kavanaugh is unfit" is not a paradox.
This is perhaps remotely related to the question I was actually answering.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:30 AM   #315
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,689
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sounds pretty simple to me.
Since the question was directed to me, how it seems to me is probably the important thing.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:34 AM   #316
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 40,871
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You made a valid point upthread, that he technically didn't claim that he was of legal age (that it was sledgehammered in implication is pretty obvious, but never mind).

But what of these absurd justifications for boofing and the Devils Triangle? Transparent lies, and as I've noted, easily explainable as youthful immaturity. But he lied. In the here and now, to the Senate. Should that be swept under the rug?
THIS is the read du jour for disqualifying Kavanaugh? That's just desperate.

No, actually, they aren't transparent lies. I've never heard either term used as slang before. If they have some commonly accepted meaning now, that doesn't mean that that's what Kavanaugh meant back then. It's entirely possible he meant something else, and was honest about what he meant by it. It's entirely possible that he's just unaware of the common current usage. Hell, it's entirely possible he was unaware of the common usage back then. As has been pointed out, that was pre-internet days. Slang was more fragmented.

I personally went for many years under a serious misapprehension about what OPP stood for. I no longer know where I got the wrong definition from, or whether I was deliberately or accidentally misinformed.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:37 AM   #317
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 11,479
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The umpires being dirty does not make the play legal.

"The Democrats are being opportunistic and Kavanaugh is unfit" is not a paradox.
Indeed.

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that (1) both parties always try to manipulate events for partisan purposes and they are doing so now and (2) the Dems would like very much to delay/obstruct a Trump nomination -- Kavenaugh or whoever -- beyond the election, although most are too smart not to realize the odds are nil.

Like you say, none if this speaks to Kavenaugh's fitness for SCOTUS.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:38 AM   #318
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 40,871
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So is it confusion or dishonesty that makes people keep saying that Ford stated there were only four other people at the party?
Ford's account kept changing, so you should probably specify which account you're referring to.

But you do have a point, her recollection of the exact number of people there is less important than facts like she lied about her motive for the counseling session that recovered this supposed past trauma.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:40 AM   #319
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,689
I'm pretty sure urbandictionary.com is not a reasonable source of truth for slang terms.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2018, 08:42 AM   #320
Imhotep
Muse
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 768
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
THIS is the read du jour for disqualifying Kavanaugh? That's just desperate.

No, actually, they aren't transparent lies. I've never heard either term used as slang before. If they have some commonly accepted meaning now, that doesn't mean that that's what Kavanaugh meant back then. It's entirely possible he meant something else, and was honest about what he meant by it. It's entirely possible that he's just unaware of the common current usage. Hell, it's entirely possible he was unaware of the common usage back then. As has been pointed out, that was pre-internet days. Slang was more fragmented.

I personally went for many years under a serious misapprehension about what OPP stood for. I no longer know where I got the wrong definition from, or whether I was deliberately or accidentally misinformed.
The terms' meaning were not only disputed by viewers familiar with the terms, but also by his own classmates.
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:40 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.