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Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees

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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:42 AM   #321
The Great Zaganza
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Another lesson to be learned for girls going to parties:
wearing a one-piece swimming suit underneath seems like a smart move to me.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:43 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm pretty sure urbandictionary.com is not a reasonable source of truth for slang terms.
then pick something else.
But do you really think that Kavanaugh "ralphed" so much because he had a delicate tummy?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:55 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
then pick something else.
But do you really think that Kavanaugh "ralphed" so much because he had a delicate tummy?
He ralphed so much because he was a loud, obnoxious drunk. Source for the bolded part: himself

He was probably mistaken about himself. Or maybe he had a different understanding of the terms loud, obnoxious, and drunk. That's probably it.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:57 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
The terms' meaning were not only disputed by viewers familiar with the terms, but also by his own classmates.
Yeah but come on... er... they're possibly confused about the term, and their recollection is from now, not from 1982, so we can discount that. They're also probably paid to say that. Anyway you'd need nothing short of a written statement by Kavanaugh within 2 weeks of the alledged assault to show that this is what the term meant.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:58 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
THIS is the read du jour for disqualifying Kavanaugh? That's just desperate.

No, actually, they aren't transparent lies. I've never heard either term used as slang before. If they have some commonly accepted meaning now, that doesn't mean that that's what Kavanaugh meant back then. It's entirely possible he meant something else, and was honest about what he meant by it. It's entirely possible that he's just unaware of the common current usage. Hell, it's entirely possible he was unaware of the common usage back then. As has been pointed out, that was pre-internet days. Slang was more fragmented.

I personally went for many years under a serious misapprehension about what OPP stood for. I no longer know where I got the wrong definition from, or whether I was deliberately or accidentally misinformed.
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it meant exactly that in 1980 what it means today. ALSO, FFFF meant Find her, Feel her **** her, Forget her.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:03 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
The terms' meaning were not only disputed by viewers familiar with the terms, but also by his own classmates.
My peers knew what OPP actually meant. I was the odd one out. It's slang, there was no available dictionary to look it up in, it was easy to go for a long time without having a common understanding of the definition.

It can also be funny to deliberately deceive someone about the meaning of a slang word. I'll give another personal example. One of my friends in college would occasionally make the sing language letter for "r", to stand for "rude", and use it to express (not always genuine) irritation. You make the letter by crossing the middle finger over the back of the index finger. Another dorm mate asked what it meant. I decided to mess with them, telling them that you cross the index finger over the back of the middle finger in order to flip someone off without it being obvious that that's what you're doing. If you don't know that the original hand gesture is a sign language "r" and how to make it, it's easy to mistake one gesture for the other. So one day this dorm mate flipped off my friend this way, and she was confused about it because it didn't match the "r" she would do. We had a little chuckle when I explained what I had done.

Seriously, this obsession with the most trivial of matters is not an attractive look. But if you really believe in it, then push for Democrats to make that the centerpiece of their campaign.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:04 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
THIS is the read du jour for disqualifying Kavanaugh? That's just desperate.
Deliberately lying to the committee? That's a problem and character issue, yes.

Quote:
No, actually, they aren't transparent lies. I've never heard either term used as slang before. If they have some commonly accepted meaning now, that doesn't mean that that's what Kavanaugh meant back then. It's entirely possible he meant something else, and was honest about what he meant by it. It's entirely possible that he's just unaware of the common current usage. Hell, it's entirely possible he was unaware of the common usage back then. As has been pointed out, that was pre-internet days. Slang was more fragmented.

I personally went for many years under a serious misapprehension about what OPP stood for. I no longer know where I got the wrong definition from, or whether I was deliberately or accidentally misinformed.
I honestly can't tell if this is a Poe, denial, or what.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:04 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it meant exactly that in 1980 what it means today.
But do you know that Kavanaugh knew that's what it meant?

No, actually, you don't.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:05 AM   #329
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Kavanaugh is the kind of guy who writes into his calendar terms he doesn't know what they mean.

How desperate do you have to be to make that argument?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:05 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it meant exactly that in 1980 what it means today. ALSO, FFFF meant Find her, Feel her **** her, Forget her.
Seriously. These were not obscure terms.

Eta: FFFF could have very well meant 'Farewell, Famously Fine Friend'. Can you prove that's not how Kavanaugh meant it? Huh? HUH!?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:09 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. These were not obscure terms.
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it didn't even exist in 1980.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:09 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Kavanaugh is the kind of guy who writes into his calendar terms he doesn't know what they mean.

How desperate do you have to be to make that argument?
Oh, I expect he thought he knew what they meant. That doesn't mean he did.

And you're resorting to Booferism as your current hope to stop Kavanaugh's confirmation. You're not in a position to lecture me about desperation.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:11 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh, I expect he thought he knew what they meant. That doesn't mean he did.

And you're resorting to Booferism as your current hope to stop Kavanaugh's confirmation. You're not in a position to lecture me about desperation.
Actually, I'm not.

I'm using the testimony of his friends and peers and of 500 Law professors to stop his confirmation.
After his performance, you cannot in good conscious support Kavanaugh's bid for the Supreme Court - unless you don't give a **** about judicial impartiality.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:13 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
THIS is the read du jour for disqualifying Kavanaugh? That's just desperate.

No, actually, they aren't transparent lies. I've never heard either term used as slang before. If they have some commonly accepted meaning now, that doesn't mean that that's what Kavanaugh meant back then. It's entirely possible he meant something else, and was honest about what he meant by it. It's entirely possible that he's just unaware of the common current usage. Hell, it's entirely possible he was unaware of the common usage back then. As has been pointed out, that was pre-internet days. Slang was more fragmented.

I personally went for many years under a serious misapprehension about what OPP stood for. I no longer know where I got the wrong definition from, or whether I was deliberately or accidentally misinformed.
We delve into the distinction between possible and probable.

We're looking at at least a half dozen words and phrases here, all related to sex and alcohol.

We're talking about a guy who described his group at the time as "Loud obnoxious drunks" and whose group was documented in an autobiography titled "Wasted: tales of a GenX drunk".

And his personal claims for the meanings of these words and phrases are all different than the more common reading, and in some cases the readings of basic common sense and that his school peers have put forward.

While it certainly may be possible that ALL of these phrases had peculiar idiosyncratic meanings and he was totally unaware of the more common use, surely you see that's straining probability.

Maybe one or two cases, but so many drifts into the realm where a man caught cheating tells his wife that the woman slipped and fell onto his penis. While it is possible in that it doesn't break the laws of physics, it would be miraculously coincidental.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:15 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But do you know that Kavanaugh knew that's what it meant?

No, actually, you don't.
Zig, seriously, stop. If he had actually raped her and you had testimony and a rape kit you'd get someone arguing that perhaps his penis slipped inside her by accident. There's a point where contortions to excuse an obvious fact tip into the ridiculous. You crossed that line a while ago.

ETA: Altered to remove any implication that Ziggurat would defend actual rape. The point wasn't to claim that, but to illustrate how ridiculous the excuses to defend Kavanaugh have become. Sorry about all that, Zig.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:15 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it didn't even exist in 1980.
We will have to come to a demonstrable agreement on the meaning of the slang term 'BULLCRAP'.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:19 AM   #337
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Some people aren't going to be happy until the entire language has to be rebuilt from scratch for every discussion and will continue to hide it behind "But we're just trying to be clear."
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:21 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Zig, seriously, stop. If he had actually raped her and you had testimony and a rape kit you'd be arguing that perhaps his penis slipped inside her by accident. There's a point where contortions to excuse an obvious fact tip into the ridiculous. You crossed that line a while ago.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:29 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Zig, seriously, stop. If he had actually raped her and you had testimony and a rape kit you'd be arguing that perhaps his penis slipped inside her by accident. There's a point where contortions to excuse an obvious fact tip into the ridiculous. You crossed that line a while ago.
First off, equating the use of slang to rape is pathetic. These aren't equivalent issues by any possible stretch of the imagination.

Secondly, no, if they had a rape kit that would be actual evidence. And actual evidence can change everything. An accusation with actual evidence is fundamentally different than an accusation with no evidence. The serious accusation here, the alleged sexual assault, has no evidence to support it. The slang issue is not a serious accusation.

And it's the height of hypocrisy to accuse me of crossing a line when you call me a denier of demonstrated rape. I wish you were better than that, but you keep proving that you aren't. And you wonder where the hostility between us comes from? Look in the mirror, Belz.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:35 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Actually, I'm not.

I'm using the testimony of his friends and peers and of 500 Law professors to stop his confirmation.
500 law professors weighed in on the meaning of Boofing? I find that unlikely.

But seriously, what do you think that letter actually means other than that you can find 500 liberal law professors? Nothing. It means absolutely nothing other than that. And while being a liberal certainly suffices to oppose a conservative nominee, that's not enough to get a conservative to oppose a conservative nominee.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:37 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
500 law professors weighed in on the meaning of Boofing? I find that unlikely.

But seriously, what do you think that letter actually means other than that you can find 500 liberal law professors?
See? You're demanding evidence out of one side of your mouth while already pre-dismissing any evidence you do get as either bias or a politically motivated attack.

You're already decided that anyone who is against Kavanaugh is motivated by greed or ideology because being against Kavanaugh by definition makes them ideological.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:47 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We will have to come to a demonstrable agreement on the meaning of the slang term 'BULLCRAP'.
As long as it's based on a claim to universal experiences that vary for each individual, I'm in.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:49 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
First off, equating the use of slang to rape is pathetic.
No one's equating anything. I'm extrapolating your constant excuses on this to something else. You've been consistently partisan for years here, so it's not a stretch.

Quote:
And it's the height of hypocrisy to accuse me of crossing a line when you call me a denier of demonstrated rape.
Spare me the fake outrage.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:52 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
500 law professors weighed in on the meaning of Boofing? I find that unlikely.

But seriously, what do you think that letter actually means other than that you can find 500 liberal law professors? Nothing. It means absolutely nothing other than that. And while being a liberal certainly suffices to oppose a conservative nominee, that's not enough to get a conservative to oppose a conservative nominee.
I'm starting to feel really sorry for you.
You can dismiss the opinion of 500 imminently qualified professionals with the wave of your hand, because they might have a different ideology than you?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:54 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm starting to feel really sorry for you.
You can dismiss the opinion of 500 imminently qualified professionals with the wave of your hand, because they might have a different ideology than you?
Well that's the standard of 'doubt' that Ziggurat is employing right now: if you can think of any explanation that would discount the claim or the evidence, then you must discount it. I think he forgot to include the 'reasonable' part of the standard.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:01 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As long as it's based on a claim to universal experiences that vary for each individual, I'm in.
Nah, subjectivity of meaning is the thing now. Its boofin.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:01 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Nah, subjectivity of meaning is the thing now. Its boofin.
Boof to that.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:08 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
BULLCRAP.! I'm a few years older than Kavanaugh it didn't even exist in 1980.
Then you were living in a cave.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:10 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm starting to feel really sorry for you.
You can dismiss the opinion of 500 imminently qualified professionals with the wave of your hand, because they might have a different ideology than you?
I can dismiss the opinion of any number of people because, get this, it's just opinion, and argument ad populum is a fallacy even when you try to combine it with argument from authority.

And I presume you mean eminently qualified and not merely imminently qualified, but Rumsfeld v. Forum for Academic & Institutional Rights proved rather conclusively that law school professors are not in fact always eminently qualified.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:15 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. These were not obscure terms.

Eta: FFFF could have very well meant 'Farewell, Famously Fine Friend'. Can you prove that's not how Kavanaugh meant it? Huh? HUH!?
It could have and monkeys also fly out of my arse

Is that what you think a sexist frat boy surrounded by other guys 7 hours a day would use those letters for?

What do you think 'Renate alumni' meant?

Prove to what standard? Beyond a reasonable doubt or 'more likely?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:17 AM   #351
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Zig, do you really feel so much under siege that considering Kavanaugh's flaws would cause the end of the US as you know it?

I know that many Conservatives weigh the chance that Kavanaugh might have assaulted a women in his youth (given his heavy drinking), and that they'd rather not be the party who voted a predator to the highest court.
The risk is just not worth the payoff - unless you believe this is the last time Republicans have a chance to get a SCOTUS majority.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:18 AM   #352
varwoche
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Then you were living in a cave.
While I don't believe Kavanaugh's explanations of the terms, nonetheless I was living in the same cave as theprestige.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:20 AM   #353
theprestige
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Then you were living in a cave.
I think the more rational explanation is that you're not actually an authority on universal experiences among American schoolchildren.

ETA: But if you *are* actually such an authority, you should probably notify Congress so they can hear your expert testimony and put this matter to rest.

Last edited by theprestige; 3rd October 2018 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:20 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It could have and monkeys also fly out of my arse

Is that what you think a sexist frat boy surrounded by other guys 7 hours a day would use those letters for?

What do you think 'Renate alumni' meant?

Prove to what standard? Beyond a reasonable doubt or 'more likely?
Obviously people can go through any number of rationalizations, some even quite reasonable. At the end of the day it's you and your opinion of the man, his honesty, his integrity. What's frustrating is to see these "opinions" play out exactly along party lines.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:23 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
While I don't believe Kavanaugh's explanations of the terms, nonetheless I was living in the same cave as theprestige.
What were the two of you doing in there?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:28 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It could have and monkeys also fly out of my arse

Is that what you think a sexist frat boy surrounded by other guys 7 hours a day would use those letters for?

What do you think 'Renate alumni' meant?

Prove to what standard? Beyond a reasonable doubt or 'more likely?
I see I omitted the /s in my post. My bad.

Can I eta a /FFFF, meaning Fault For Fleeting Forgetfulness?

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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:44 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Obviously people can go through any number of rationalizations, some even quite reasonable. At the end of the day it's you and your opinion of the man, his honesty, his integrity. What's frustrating is to see these "opinions" play out exactly along party lines.
I agree. I just don't think character and integrity counts at all for the Republican party. It's all about winning. And don't say the Democrats act the same way. One only needs to look at Al Franken to see the difference.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:48 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Zig, do you really feel so much under siege that considering Kavanaugh's flaws would cause the end of the US as you know it?
Do you really feel that Kavanaugh's confirmation is such a threat that you have to straw man any arguments in his favor?

Quote:
I know that many Conservatives weigh the chance that Kavanaugh might have assaulted a women in his youth (given his heavy drinking), and that they'd rather not be the party who voted a predator to the highest court.
The risk is just not worth the payoff - unless you believe this is the last time Republicans have a chance to get a SCOTUS majority.
You're pushing a standard where accusations without any evidence to support them are enough to derail a nomination. You might think that you can apply this standard to only conservative nominees, but 1) I won't have a part in that, and 2) if it works this time, it will be tried against every single nominee from now on, including liberal ones.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:50 AM   #359
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think the more rational explanation is that you're not actually an authority on universal experiences among American schoolchildren.

ETA: But if you *are* actually such an authority, you should probably notify Congress so they can hear your expert testimony and put this matter to rest.
Nope. I just am not willing to lie. I guess if you were home schooled, you wouldn't have heard those terms. But living in the life of hard partying guy centric world of jocks, you would have known them well.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:53 AM   #360
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do you really feel that Kavanaugh's confirmation is such a threat that you have to straw man any arguments in his favor?



You're pushing a standard where accusations without any evidence to support them are enough to derail a nomination. You might think that you can apply this standard to only conservative nominees, but 1) I won't have a part in that, and 2) if it works this time, it will be tried against every single nominee from now on, including liberal ones.
It's not about standards, it's about strategy: for the benefit of the Party, and of the entire Judicial System, it is better at this point to drop Kavanaugh than have the shadow of a deeply flawed candidate hanging over every federal election for the next 30 years.
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