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Old 9th October 2018, 04:44 PM   #1
BobTheCoward
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Now there are only 12 years left -- Global Climate Change.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Perhaps algae bloom is a symptom of a much bigger problem? One that was announced with great alarm today but bounced off the news by Haley's resignation? "Climate Change Could Be Crisis By 2030, UN Study Warns".

Now there are ony 12 years left...
Earth is going to be just fine.
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:27 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Perhaps algae bloom is a symptom of a much bigger problem? One that was announced with great alarm today but bounced off the news by Haley's resignation? "Climate Change Could Be Crisis By 2030, UN Study Warns".

Now there are ony 12 years left...
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.

Vostok_to_10Kybp.gif

gisp-last-10000-new.jpg
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.
So?
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
So?
The planet is going to be just fine. Unless the sun decides to take care of the solarsystem.
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by River View Post
The planet is going to be just fine.
Did alfaniner assert it wasn't?
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.
Seriously? Yeah, sure, but that was before people existed and mass extinctions resulted, so I fail to see your point.

Did you even have one?
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Seriously? Yeah, sure, but that was before people existed and mass extinctions resulted, so I fail to see your point.

Did you even have one?
Only 125,000 years ago apparently. Humans are about 350,000 years.
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.
It's also been hit by catastrophic meteors before. Wouldn't you try stop those, if you could?
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:47 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Only 125,000 years ago apparently. Humans are about 350,000 years.
Not if we're talking about the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, which happened about 55 million years ago.

As far as I know, that's the hottest it's ever been.
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Old 9th October 2018, 05:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Not if we're talking about the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, which happened about 55 million years ago.

As far as I know, that's the hottest it's ever been.
I was even reading his "much hotter" as 1 degree or so.
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.
Yes, I'm also aware WTC 1 and 2 were built to withstand aircraft impacts. Do you have any arguments that perhaps haven't been rebutted a million times before?
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Appalling as it all is, I did have to laugh at the misplaced apostrophe in suck's.
Not to mention the shirt has the grammar wrong as well. There shouldn't be an s on sucks at all.

Two things suck, one thing sucks.
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by River View Post
This meme is kinda funny. but also kinda accurate. I'll say the same to you that I have to others on this topic. If you're OK with it, don't cry when it happens in reciprocal fashion. Also, don't cry when government steps in and regulates. (its going to happen)

If Democrats were breaking the rules they would have no one to blame if they were punished. But mostly it is conservatives doing so because they are degenerate scum.


Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.

Attachment 39067

Attachment 39068

You are aware that proving CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas would get you a Nobel Prize. Go get it!
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:20 PM   #14
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Our human activity won't destroy the planet. This is a true statement from the Trumpers.


We're just ensuring that it can't sustain human life sooner, rather than later.
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Yes, I'm also aware WTC 1 and 2 were built to withstand aircraft impacts. Do you have any arguments that perhaps haven't been rebutted a million times before?
Not so much arguments that have never been rebutted. The same ole. Worrying about human created co2 levels is like worrying about a fart in the wind. The planet is going to be just fine. We're not going to perish in 12 years, or 100 (at least from co2)
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Not so much arguments that have never been rebutted. The same ole. Worrying about human created co2 levels is like worrying about a fart in the wind. The planet is going to be just fine. We're not going to perish in 12 years, or 100 (at least from co2)
That's a "no", then.
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Not so much arguments that have never been rebutted. The same ole. Worrying about human created co2 levels is like worrying about a fart in the wind. The planet is going to be just fine. We're not going to perish in 12 years, or 100 (at least from co2)
Better get that published in your favourite journal and the debate it with your climate scientist peers, the majority of whom seem to disagree with you.
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:19 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Not so much arguments that have never been rebutted. The same ole. Worrying about human created co2 levels is like worrying about a fart in the wind. The planet is going to be just fine. We're not going to perish in 12 years, or 100 (at least from co2)
Oh good, that's a relief.

Can I read the full scientific report that says so, I want to understand the details.

(edit: River, that is such an idiotic statement. Global Climate change is not a political issue. It is just science. I have no idea why mostly conservatives have decided to paint the problem as a kind of left wing political propaganda. You can get the key facts and evidence from purely scientific sources. The planet will continue, but it will have an enormous impact on the worlds population and economies. Lastly the date of 12 years is I think supposed to be the point of no return, things will just go down hill from there - or become much much much more expensive to sort out.)
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
Oh good, that's a relief.

Can I read the full scientific report that says so, I want to understand the details.
I think he's correct. Humans won't die from co2 asphyxia. The planet won't die.

Starvation, lack of water, lack of shelter and severe weather will kill much of the population and maybe even make the planet uninhabitable for humans.. but hey, climate is always changing, the planet won't die and we won't die from co2.
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Only 125,000 years ago apparently. Humans are about 350,000 years.
Do you know how many humans were around at that time?
Do you know how many of them were living on coasts?
Do you know how many of them were nomads?
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Do you know how many humans were around at that time?
Do you know how many of them were living on coasts?
Do you know how many of them were nomads?
I didn't bother to look those up because that wasn't at issue
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Old 9th October 2018, 11:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't bother to look those up because that wasn't at issue
I used to talk about how it would be nice to give up the rat race and go live in a long house in the Amazon. You get to go hunting every week with your mates, dinner is always ready when you get back home, no more ironing.

Then I watched a doc about a bunch of amazonian s who had recently emerged from the forest. A professor had learnt to communicate and so the film makers gave some interviews. Apparently they are always always hungry, they were always tired, sleeping safely was always a problem and they were always worried about being attacked and slaughtered by other tribes.

And that is with our currently stable climate.

People who automatically dismiss the potential impact of climate change are either kidding themselves or are just ignorant IMO and it often says something about their general lack of ability for critical thinking and rational conversation.

Perhaps we don't know exactly what the effects will be, but there will be consequences and so we should endeavor to find out what the limits of those consequences may be.
Dismissing it with a hand wave is just dumbass.
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Old 9th October 2018, 11:15 PM   #23
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If you don't care about climate change, you don't care about the generation after you.
Same if you ok with deficit spending for no good reason.
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Old 10th October 2018, 12:15 AM   #24
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If a bunch of idiots fooling around with matches caused a devastating forest fire, everyone would hold them responsible for the consequent loss of life and property. No-one would just say "Did you know that worse forest fires have happened in the past?"

The asteroid impact of 66 million years ago wiped out about 75% of extant species. Does that make it OK for us to deliberately crash an asteroid into the earth? The idea is ridiculous, yet the "climate change has always happened" non sequitur is trotted out all the time.
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Old 10th October 2018, 01:06 AM   #25
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Not all deniers oppose the idea of climate change, some accept that it's happening and we should adapt, but instead they deny that humans could cause it. We're so small, the planet so big, they say. I must remember the forest fire analogy, a cigarette is such a tiny thing but it can burn hundreds of thousands of acres.
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Old 10th October 2018, 01:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Not all deniers oppose the idea of climate change, some accept that it's happening and we should adapt, but instead they deny that humans could cause it. We're so small, the planet so big, they say. I must remember the forest fire analogy, a cigarette is such a tiny thing but it can burn hundreds of thousands of acres.
There are some who think the earth is only 10,000 years old but they are also non experts gainsaying the majority of experts in the relevant fields.

The arrgoance of that bum Trump to ignore expert opinion.
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Old 10th October 2018, 02:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before?
I really think you should read up on climate change from a non-partisan source. You seen woefully uninformed about it.

Originally Posted by River View Post
Worrying about human created co2 levels is like worrying about a fart in the wind. The planet is going to be just fine. We're not going to perish in 12 years, or 100 (at least from co2)
See above. The atmosphere has a finite volume, so it's obvious that we can affect it. EDUCATE YOURSELF. Denying is not the same as rebutting.
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Old 10th October 2018, 04:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
Oh good, that's a relief.

Can I read the full scientific report that says so, I want to understand the details.

(edit: River, that is such an idiotic statement. Global Climate change is not a political issue. It is just science. I have no idea why mostly conservatives have decided to paint the problem as a kind of left wing political propaganda. You can get the key facts and evidence from purely scientific sources. The planet will continue, but it will have an enormous impact on the worlds population and economies. Lastly the date of 12 years is I think supposed to be the point of no return, things will just go down hill from there - or become much much much more expensive to sort out.)
Perhaps it's worth taking a peek at Big Oil, Big Coal, and the like, as well as the donations that they've been making to the Republicans and the lobbying that they've been doing? They're using the same tactics (and apparently some of the same people) as the cigarette makers were using when it came to denying the link between cigarettes and cancer... for much the same reasons. The main difference is that pretty much everyone is likely to be affected, this time, instead of just those who are smokers and around smokers.
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You are aware of course that the temperature on the planet has been much higher before? SMH.

Global temperate are changing at least 10X faster than any other period in human existence. They havenít change this quickly since the K-T extinction. Ecosystems can handle a few deg of global temperature change when it takes a couple thousand years to happen.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Only 125,000 years ago apparently.
~1.5 deg C warmer than today but short of immediately stopping all fossil fuel use we are going to exceed those temperatures.

You also need to remember than sea levels were 20 feet higher. We may survive another 2 deg of warming much of our economic infrastructure would not survive the associated 20+ foot sea level rise.


Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Only 125,000 years ago apparently.
You can't really say to what degree humans 125KYA were like us. They are generally considered a different sub-species from the one all current humans belong to.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post

You can't really say to what degree humans 125KYA were like us. They are generally considered a different sub-species from the one all current humans belong to.
I don't care about sub species distinction. The only thing that matters in my answer is the title of species. How much they differ between now and then is not relevant.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about sub species distinction. The only thing that matters in my answer is the title of species. How much they differ between now and then is not relevant.
Bob you don't get to rewrite either reality or discussions based on what you care about.

Stuff you don't care about still exists and still matters.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:21 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about sub species distinction. The only thing that matters in my answer is the title of species. How much they differ between now and then is not relevant.
Yeah, maybe we can get back to paleolithic life if the earth doesn't warm too much.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Bob you don't get to rewrite either reality or discussions based on what you care about.

Stuff you don't care about still exists and still matters.
The issue was whether humans existed back then or didn't. They did. How much different they were back then doesn't alter that.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:31 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The issue was whether humans existed back then or didn't. They did. How much different they were back then doesn't alter that.
Because you're doing the faux-autistic Vulcan robot routine and demanding that a loose term be defined exactly.
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:36 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about sub species distinction. The only thing that matters in my answer is the title of species. How much they differ between now and then is not relevant.
The post you were responding to never said ďspeciesĒ and you don't get to decide what they were referring to. If they were referring to our sub-species of homo sapiens sapiens then their post was perfectly correct and you challenge to it was incorrect. Also, since itís already inevitable that temperatures will climb to those of 125KYA itís perfectly reasonable to go back to the last time temperatures were definitively higher than that, which as they said was 5 million years ago.

At best you are quibbling about semantics and not addressing the real content of their post
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:19 AM   #36
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Now there are only 12 years left -- Global Climate Change.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45775309

Since I think I kicked off the discussion in an incorrect thread, I started this one. New because at this moment the report came out, and there is a sudden Category 4 hurricane hitting Florida at this very moment.

It might be nice if the moderators can move that discussion here because a lot of good points have already been made...

From the Presidential X thread
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Old 10th October 2018, 08:25 AM   #37
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We're screwed.

"After three years of research and a week of haggling between scientists and government officials at a meeting in South Korea, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has issued a special report on the impact of global warming of 1.5C."

It seems that some still think that global warming can be haggled away. Either that or lots of regimes doin't want all the bad news all at once on their watch.

Either way, there's bugger all will to act so the planet is screwed.

Venus here we come!
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:13 AM   #38
lomiller
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Depending on what you define as “pre-industrial” we’ve already hit 1.5 Deg C. We are currently 1.0 – 1.2 Dec C above 1900 with 0.3 – 0.5 Deg worth of warming being covered up by global dimming. If we immediately stopped emitting CO2 cold turkey our emission of reflective aerosols would also stop, and since they don’t stay in the atmosphere as long as CO2 we would expect warming of 0.2-0.4 Deg C in the ensuing decade.

Some discussion and summarization of it here.
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2018/10...w-far-to-1-5c/


Long story short is that it’s probably already impossible to keep warming under 1.5 Dec. If we stopped emitting now we would still hit that number, but at least it would top out around there then start to decline. We have another decade or two before 2 Deg C is similarly unreachable, but even now it’s probably already to late to keep things under 2 Deg C without drastic and rapid cuts.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:24 AM   #39
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No wonder people are pessimistic. The IPPC is still working from a flawed consensus.

And no I don't mean the consensus that AGW is real. Everyone can agree there. But rather the flawed mitigation so called "consensus" bases on the ONLY climate model they have been able to come up with that keeps us under 1.5 or even 2 degrees C.

The consensus world opinion is to first halve fossil fuels use over the next few years (ultimately eliminate it completely) and replace it with solar wind and biofuels using CCS technologies to pump that CO2 deep underground in empty wells and deep caves where it can’t leak back up again. And then plant forests.

It’s unproven technologies combined with impossibly difficult uses of new technologies combined with the wrong biome to cool the planet. But it is the consensus because it was one of the scenarios modeled at the IPCC.

Don’t get me wrong, solar wind and hydro are great for generating electricity. But totally eliminating all fossil fuels in time enough to reverse global warming? That’s an impossibly difficult task without massive loss of life and chaos war etc…

And using corn and soy as biofuels to power CCS is just about as inefficient process as can be had. Until just recently it actually took more fossil fuels energy to produce alcohol as the energy resulting from burning the alcohol! Insanely inefficient process. Then to say we will use that to power unproven CCS technologies for a net negative carbon footprint? Beyond unworkable actually. We might as well just bring back the turnspit dog. And forests? They either warm the planet or moderate temps, but they don't cool the planet. Grasslands to that.

We are well and truly screwed I agree. But even if we did exactly what IPCC requested 110%, we are still screwed because their best plan can't possibly work, and never really did have a chance in hell of working either... due to that fundamental flaw in understanding the ecosystem services forests supply and don't supply.

However, don't believe it's going to be venus like. That can't happen either. More like swamps and deserts mostly, with almost no good land for agriculture left.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:24 AM   #40
Belz...
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Long story short is that it’s probably already impossible to keep warming under 1.5 Dec. If we stopped emitting now we would still hit that number, but at least it would top out around there then start to decline. We have another decade or two before 2 Deg C is similarly unreachable, but even now it’s probably already to late to keep things under 2 Deg C without drastic and rapid cuts.
Let's be realistic. We're not very good at drastic things like that. 4-5 degrees sounds more probable. Assuming we don't get more reactionaries who think they have to show how macho they are by going against the whole idea and push 7 degrees by 2100.
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